Bust a Scoot?

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Tince said:
You must love being bad forever if you don't even want our best player starting. What a culture that would create...

In my world, minutes should be earned, not given.
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Not on a rebuilding team. That’s the whole point. Otherwise we are starting Brogdon, Simons, Grant, Williams, and Ayton. That’s not a playoff team.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Not on a rebuilding team. That’s the whole point. Otherwise we are starting Brogdon, Simons, Grant, Williams, and Ayton. That’s not a playoff team.
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I like the idea of building a culture around competing and earning minutes. If young guys aren't good enough to compete with role players, then they're not good enough be playing, in my opinion. Difference in philosophies I guess.
 
Tince said:
I like the idea of building a culture around competing and earning minutes. If young guys aren't good enough to compete with role players, then they're not good enough be playing, in my opinion. Difference in philosophies I guess.
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Jermaine could not outplay Grant/Sheed/Sabonis and yet he immediately went to Indy and became an All Star. Giving young guys a long leash in order to work through mistakes is critical. If they’re scared of messing up because they don’t want to get the hook, it will put them under a lot of pressure and cause them to screw up.
 
Tince said:
I like the idea of building a culture around competing and earning minutes. If young guys aren't good enough to compete with role players, then they're not good enough be playing, in my opinion. Difference in philosophies I guess.
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That makes zero sense to me if you're talking about prioritizing playing time and experience for talented, young players.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Not on a rebuilding team. That’s the whole point. Otherwise we are starting Brogdon, Simons, Grant, Williams, and Ayton. That’s not a playoff team.
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I'd like it if we started that lineup. It's not as if by not starting Scoot that somehow means he can't play as many minutes as they want him to play. It's silly. If we start in a more competitive manner, everything about the game is more enjoyable. There's nothing to be gained by destroying Scoot's confidence like this. He's literally 19 years old. I'm surprised everyone doesn't agree, honestly.
 
blazerfan11 said:
That makes zero sense to me if you're talking about prioritizing playing time and experience for talented, young players.
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I believe talented, young players, can earn plenty of minutes. If they are talented, they'll be able to compete with role players when it comes to earning playing time.

Being young and simply having potential doesn't mean you should be handed 40 minutes a night. OKC played 34 year old Chris Paul 30mpg despite having Shai and Dort on the roster. Both young guys turned out just fine. It's possible they even learned a lot because of CP3 getting those minutes.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Jermaine could not outplay Grant/Sheed/Sabonis and yet he immediately went to Indy and became an All Star. Giving young guys a long leash in order to work through mistakes is critical. If they’re scared of messing up because they don’t want to get the hook, it will put them under a lot of pressure and cause them to screw up.
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It appears you're coming to the conclusion that Jermaine would not have become an All-Star in Portland, which I disagree with. In fact, I'd argue him playing with and behind guys like Grant/Sheed/Sabonis helped him become an All-Star. He wasn't just given minutes in his first two seasons simply because of potential, he was having to compete in practice, in a winning culture.

Competing worked out great for Jermaine.
 
Scoot has more than one successful outcome with the blazers... I think theres some confusion about things..

first and foremost Scoota Henderson is and has always been whats called -- An Attack Guard.. He is very much a "downhill" player..

So the idea of pigeon holing him as "the PG of the future" is truly a narrow way to view things!


Because he can very well become the PG of the future, thats a viable outcome, he'll need to shoot the 3 better I presume to wrangle that.


Scoot can also REPLACE BROGDON years down the line... and then Scoot gets filled in with a 3pt shooter.. n truly Simons has some flexibility just like this so it truly is a flexible situation, this is whats cool about the state of the combo guard in todays nba in 2023..

n Scoot doesnt need to be the do-it-all guy, he can function as this sort of bruiser, as well, long as the rest of the floor spacing is in order..

N I think this is being understated n ima just leave this right there to let it marinate before i detract by becoming verbose.
 
Scoot is not a bust. He just isn't going to play the same way people have grown accustomed to seeing Lillard play.

Lillard was effective because he stretched the court. He was a shooter and demanded attention from half court. That gave other players a lot of opportunities.

Scoot really isn't a great shooter. He will have to collapse the court and kick out to better shooters. If teams do not defend him driving they will get burned so they must pack the paint and put their best defender on him. This should help others get better looks.

The trick is getting players to buy into this system and coaching it well.
 
I was only able to catch the last eight minutes of the game so someone please fill me in how it really went? Did Scoot really get to play PG or was Simons pounding the ball a lot? This was my concern, those two being a terrible pairing. I think Simons plays best when he has the ball. Scoot will never be effective off the ball. I fully expected nerves to get to Scoot in game one, but the Clippers also are a good defensive team. Add in, vets love to take it to the rookies early on the results are no surprising. Simons and Brogdon are very good players, but I think they offer little to Scoot as they should be in winning scenarios, not in Portland. Scoot needs a vet like Dame had, Earl Watson. Nobody ever looked to Watson to start, compete or anything of the like. Career backup that can help teach the rookie. Get them through the highs and lows. And I know Simons started at SG, but he is ball dominant and Sharpe should be starting there. He gets to the rim at will and he is a streaky shooter like Simons.
 
BIG Q said:
And I know Simons started at SG, but he is ball dominant and Sharpe should be starting there. He gets to the rim at will and he is a streaky shooter like Simons.
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This thread is about Scoot so I'll keep it short.
IMO. Sharpe looked great last night. He looks light years above what he was last year at this time. Just my opinion but Sharpe should be in the SG spot very soon.
 
kjironman1 said:
This thread is about Scoot so I'll keep it short.
IMO. Sharpe looked great last night. He looks light years above what he was last year at this time. Just my opinion but Sharpe should be in the SG spot very soon.
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I know there is a lot of hand wringing about Chauncy as a coach - and he certainly has his issues, but he and his team have definitely done a good job helping Sharpe develop, so that's something to be said in his favor.
 
Tince said:
I like the idea of building a culture around competing and earning minutes. If young guys aren't good enough to compete with role players, then they're not good enough be playing, in my opinion. Difference in philosophies I guess.
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If this is your philosophy I feel really bad for you as a Blazers fan for at least the next couple of seasons. You may get some peace by the trade deadline but on a rebuilding team guys just aren't earning their minutes by how they are playing now, they're earning minutes by how they are expected to be playing when we're trying to win games again.
 
blazerkor said:
If this is your philosophy I feel really bad for you as a Blazers fan for at least the next couple of seasons. You may get some peace by the trade deadline but on a rebuilding team guys just aren't earning their minutes by how they are playing now, they're earning minutes by how they are expected to be playing when we're trying to win games again.
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I feel bad for me too.

To be clear, I didn't say all 48 minutes at each position should go to the best player at said position.
 
Amen just last night, Jamal Murray, Cade, Melo Ball, and Kyrie Irving all looked worse in their first NBA game and they sure didn't turn out half bad.
 
Tince said:
I believe talented, young players, can earn plenty of minutes. If they are talented, they'll be able to compete with role players when it comes to earning playing time.

Being young and simply having potential doesn't mean you should be handed 40 minutes a night. OKC played 34 year old Chris Paul 30mpg despite having Shai and Dort on the roster. Both young guys turned out just fine. It's possible they even learned a lot because of CP3 getting those minutes.
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Well what is that based on? Some huge percentage of the time that young players explode it's because they are traded to a team and then they get minutes and touches (Jermaine O'Neal) and are not buried on the bench, Injury of the player ahead of them (imagine the Patriots and Bill Belichiek if Bledsoe doesn't get injured...changes the entire NFL for 20 years), or they are force fed minutes and touches despite the outcome (Durant and Kobe both fit this mold among many, many others).

Your idea of young guys earning minutes is such an old-school approach. It's why Sharpe is languishing on the bench when he is pretty clearly the 2nd best player on the team after Ant. I'm a bit surprised Scoot is starting TBH, because Billups clearly agrees with you to the point of giving Ant of all people primary playmaking during almost the entirety of the first half. It's almost like Billups knows he has to play Scoot, but wants to just give his best player the ball, like he has done throughout his career in Portland and disguising this as an offense. With Lillard it worked because Lillard would use the pick and roll to distribute, not just call his own number.
 
Tince said:
It appears you're coming to the conclusion that Jermaine would not have become an All-Star in Portland, which I disagree with. In fact, I'd argue him playing with and behind guys like Grant/Sheed/Sabonis helped him become an All-Star. He wasn't just given minutes in his first two seasons simply because of potential, he was having to compete in practice, in a winning culture.

Competing worked out great for Jermaine.
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Amazing spin, just unreal in fact. Do you work for a PR firm? No doubt Jermaine benefited from playing with those guys, but equally obviously the moment he had minutes and touches he exploded. Dunleavy pulling Jermaine who was frustrating Shaq in Game 7 is a HUGE part of why we lost that game.
 
Idog1976 said:
Amazing spin, just unreal in fact. Do you work for a PR firm? No doubt Jermaine benefited from playing with those guys, but equally obviously the moment he had minutes and touches he exploded. Dunleavy pulling Jermaine who was frustrating Shaq in Game 7 is a HUGE part of why we lost that game.
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I do not work for a PR firm.

Your spin that Jermaine being subbed out in Game 7 being a HUGE part of why the Blazers lost isn't something even I couldn't spin. So you may be the real PR master.
 
BIG Q said:
I was only able to catch the last eight minutes of the game so someone please fill me in how it really went? Did Scoot really get to play PG or was Simons pounding the ball a lot? This was my concern, those two being a terrible pairing. I think Simons plays best when he has the ball. Scoot will never be effective off the ball. I fully expected nerves to get to Scoot in game one, but the Clippers also are a good defensive team. Add in, vets love to take it to the rookies early on the results are no surprising. Simons and Brogdon are very good players, but I think they offer little to Scoot as they should be in winning scenarios, not in Portland. Scoot needs a vet like Dame had, Earl Watson. Nobody ever looked to Watson to start, compete or anything of the like. Career backup that can help teach the rookie. Get them through the highs and lows. And I know Simons started at SG, but he is ball dominant and Sharpe should be starting there. He gets to the rim at will and he is a streaky shooter like Simons.
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Yes, after a brief stint as primary playmaker, Chauncey incomprehensibly decided our shoot first combo guard Simons, should initiate the offense, and our no-shot PG should play off the ball. Unreal.
 
Tince said:
I do not work for a PR firm.

Your spin that Jermaine being subbed out in Game 7 being a HUGE part of why the Blazers lost isn't something even I couldn't spin. So you may be the real PR master.
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Yeah, no. He got fouls on Shaq and that game was close who knows what happens if we keep in JO to frustrate Shaq further and perhaps get more fouls on Shaq. We brought Arvydas back in to soon and he immediately picked up more fouls which killed us. Perhaps you don't remember the game, but I have it forever burned into my brain. Obviously the refs were the biggest factor, but Jermaine was awesome in his short stint against Shaq and gave us a different defensive look.

The main point is, you are DEAD WRONG about not playing Scoot and Sharpe major minutes until they beat out guys who won't be on our team when we are actually competing. That's an unbelievably insane position to take given the past years of NBA history.
 
Idog1976 said:
Well what is that based on? Some huge percentage of the time that young players explode it's because they are traded to a team and then they get minutes and touches (Jermaine O'Neal) and are not buried on the bench, Injury of the player ahead of them (imagine the Patriots and Bill Belichiek if Bledsoe doesn't get injured...changes the entire NFL for 20 years), or they are force fed minutes and touches despite the outcome (Durant and Kobe both fit this mold among many, many others).

Your idea of young guys earning minutes is such an old-school approach. It's why Sharpe is languishing on the bench when he is pretty clearly the 2nd best player on the team after Ant. I'm a bit surprised Scoot is starting TBH, because Billups clearly agrees with you to the point of giving Ant of all people primary playmaking during almost the entirety of the first half. It's almost like Billups knows he has to play Scoot, but wants to just give his best player the ball, like he has done throughout his career in Portland and disguising this as an offense. With Lillard it worked because Lillard would use the pick and roll to distribute, not just call his own number.
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You might have missed the game but Scoot/Sharpe combined for 64 minutes, they didn't get buried. I thought people loved Billups when he arrived because he actually gave the young guys a chance? Now supposedly Sharpe playing 28 minutes is him "languishing" on the bench? And your take that Sharpe is the 2nd best player on the team seems like a major stretch. I'd guess he's the 5th or 6th best player on the roster. I'm not sure what Sharpe has done in meaningful NBA games to warrant such praise, but I can see some tools where he eventually becomes a top 2 player.
 
Idog1976 said:
Yeah, no. He got fouls on Shaq and that game was close who knows what happens if we keep in JO to frustrate Shaq further and perhaps get more fouls on Shaq. We brought Arvydas back in to soon and he immediately picked up more fouls which killed us. Perhaps you don't remember the game, but I have it forever burned into my brain. Obviously the refs were the biggest factor, but Jermaine was awesome in his short stint against Shaq and gave us a different defensive look.

The main point is, you are DEAD WRONG about not playing Scoot and Sharpe major minutes until they beat out guys who won't be on our team when we are actually competing. That's an unbelievably insane position to take given the past years of NBA history.
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Since you put it in all caps, bold, and italics, and underline, it must be right. And they are getting major minutes, so you should be thrilled.

JERMAINE NOT PLAYING IN THE 4TH OF GAME 7 WAS NOT A HUGE REASON THEY LOST
 
Tince said:
Since you put it in all caps, bold, and italics, it must be right. And they are getting major minutes, so you should be thrilled.
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It's not JUST minutes hello? Scoot was playing off-ball half his minutes last night. Sharpe is often stuck in a corner and rarely is given the green light to get downhill and drive which is obvious from how he passes immediately on the perimeter. Instead we are wasting those touches and responsibilities on Grant who is extremely unlikely to be on the team after next summer, and Ant who is clearly another combo guard who plays mediocre defense and has a shoot-first mentality. Minutes where one is used ineffectively are almost worse than sitting on the bench because you get no touches and rhythm, worst case they can harm your confidence.
 
Tince said:
Since you put it in all caps, bold, and italics, and underline, it must be right. And they are getting major minutes, so you should be thrilled.

JERMAINE NOT PLAYING IN THE 4TH OF GAME 7 WAS NOT A HUGE REASON THEY LOST
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You should really watch the movie adaptation of a book that completely changed all sports into the modern form, namely "Moneyball.". If you prefer the written form, read the book. Your philosophy is outdated and just incongruent with modern sports realities.
 
PG is the hardest position for new players coming into the NBA to get the hang of.

Considering we have a 19 year old running the PG with no college experience, there is going to be lots and lots of growing pains.

Anyone judging him on one game, or even one or two seasons needs to get checked lol.
 
Idog1976 said:
It's not JUST minutes hello? Scoot was playing off-ball half his minutes last night. Sharpe is often stuck in a corner and rarely is given the green light to get downhill and drive which is obvious from how he passes immediately on the perimeter. Instead we are wasting those touches and responsibilities on Grant who is extremely unlikely to be on the team after next summer, and Ant who is clearly another combo guard who plays mediocre defense and has a shoot-first mentality. Minutes where one is used ineffectively are almost worse than sitting on the bench because you get no touches and rhythm, worst case they can harm your confidence.
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Yes, I'm aware, I watched the game. I did not see one player on the roster worthy of being fully catered around at the sacrifice of others. That's true for Ant, Grant, Ayton, Scoot, Sharpe, etc.

I believe Scoot and Sharpe are going to continue to get far more opportunities this season than they would on an average NBA team. Hopefully they take advantage of it and it pays off.
 
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