Buzz: The Rangers Are Exploring Things

[chuckd3534]

At CBC, Elliotte Friedman writes that the Rangers appear to be one of the teams doing the most “exploring” when it comes to trying to make improvements to their roster.

Two other teams he lists are Metropolitan Division rivals, the Flyers and Devils.

Bruce Garrioch wrote yesterday in the Ottawa Sun that the Rangers are looking for a top-six winger

 

[NYR31]

why would the Devils be exploring? i guess they can explore blowing things up and rebuilding, which would be the sensible move.

 

[chuckd3534]

-Brad Richards, Derek Stepan, Chris Kreider
-JT Miller, Dominic Moore, Jesper Fast
-Taylor Pyatt, Brian Boyle, Mats Zuccarello
-Benoit Pouliot, Derick Brassard, Derek Dorsett

 

[chuckd3534]

Top notch lines at practice today....

With Nash and Cally out for weeks more, all we can do is pray...LOL.

 

[Stepupstepan]

Too early to do something big. Not saying that this roster is great. They probably still want to see what Kreider can do before they do anything major.

 

[NYR31]

Too early to do something big. Not saying that this roster is great. They probably still want to see what Kreider can do before they do anything major.

I disagree. With his history of under-performance, you need to plan as if Kreider didn't exist, so that if he gets his head out of his rear end and becomes a 25gl scorer then it's icing on the cake rather than something you need/depend on to be successful.

 

[NYR31]

and Chuck, after that 1st line it is pretty ugly. Yikes, lol.

 

[chuckd3534]

According to Bruce Garrioch, in the Ottawa Sun, the Rangers are searching for a top-six forward and looking to trade Chris Kreider.

He says that Kreider was once a top prospect but he has fallen out of favor with the organization.

Kreider has 4 points in six games with 16 shots on goal.

In June, Garrioch reported that the Rangers were quietly shopping JT Miller to try and acquire more established players.

 

[NYR31]

Trading Kreider is a gamble and a risk. If you trade him and he figures it out then you're going to regret that move for a long time. But if you hold onto him and he keeps being an idiot then his value then will be a lot lower than what it is today.

Assuming he can be packaged for a proven scorer under 30 i can live with that, even if Kreider becomes a 30-30 guy down the road.

 

[theProdigy223]

Chuck where did you see those lines? Zipay has

Kreider-Stepan-Richards
Pouliot-Brassard-Miller
Pyatt-Boyle-MZA
Mashinter/Fast-Moore-Dorsett

which I think I like better

 

[theProdigy223]

On a separate note, we should not have waited until now to pursue a top 6 winger. How many people in here were saying we needed a top 6 winger in the worst way the WHOLE offseason? It was completely obvious. The best line combos we had in the offseason included both Hagelin and Kreider as top 6 wingers. Kreider was a huge question mark and Hagelin doesnt belong there as it is, let alone the fact that he was about to miss 10 games anyway.

The fact of the matter is that more players are available in the offseason than they are this early in the year. Now we risk overpaying for somebody we could have possibly had for cheaper had we made the move earlier. Not to mention the hole we dug ourselves going into the season with a big hole in the top 6.

If I'm GM I'm trading Miller before Kreider. Kreider probably has more value but a guy with his size and speed is just too rare to give up this early on. Maybe the brass knows something we don't regarding where his head is, but I don't give up on him yet.

I said it all offseason, we should have packaged Miller and DZ for a legitimate top 6 winger, preferably a LW.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Acquired LW (could have been Ryan)-Richards-Callahan
Hagelin-Brassard-Pouliot
Boyle/MZA-Moore-Dorsett

That's how we should have rolled. That open spot in the top 6 makes a HUGE difference in terms of depth.

 

[chuckd3534]

We could have simply dealt DZ 3 years ago when I said we should have.... But instead let's hold, and hold, and hold, and hold. Then we will scratch him. That will get his value up.

As for Kreider or Miller, to be honest I rather deal Kreider. First I think his value is higher and would bring us a better player in return. Second I think Miller is stable. He will be a good solid pro. Maybe Cally lite. Kreider has the upside over him, but WAY more risk IMO.

If you said same exact package for Miller or Kreider I would deal Miller, but given that I believe we could get more for Kreider AND the fact that he is more boom or bust, I rather deal Kreider.

Either way we should package DZ and a good kid for a proven top 6 winger. It just makes so much sense.

 

[NYR31]

Trading MDZ 3 yrs ago when he was barely 20 made no sense, but now that he's 23 and we have the depth in D to trade him then it's certainly a move that should be explored.

 

[chuckd3534]

Wow, we disagree AS USUAL 31. Yeah, let's hold him until his warts show, and his value gets lower, and we scratch him, THEN let's deal him. Dealing him 2 or 3 years ago made perfect sense, especailly when you see where we are now. And when you realize you either deal him or give him a larger deal this summer, it even makes more sense.

 

[NYR31]

Did you even read my post? I guess people can read and not understand what they're reading, so that's an option too.

I said it makes sense to trade him today, because of the reasons you mentioned, but it made no sense to trade him 3 YEARS AGO WHEN HE WAS BARELY 20 and all that potential in front of him. 3yrs ago we hadn't drafted McIralth or Skjei and had players like Redden and Gilroy playing major minutes. McDonagh wasn't on the team 3yrs ago either.

And stop with the "it made sense to trade him then because look at where we are now". Everyone's right when looking in hindsight, so that argument is very weak.

 

[chuckd3534]

And we disagree. I personally have been saying for 2 or 3 years we should have dealt DZ. For you to say that is hindsight is a comical joke as usual from a dumba** like you 31. This is not new with me, or something I just started saying, for years I said we should have dealt him when his value was high. WHY??? Because he is not good. He is up and down. He CANNOT SHOOT (good quality for an offensive dman). Soft in the corners. The kid is not a good player right now.

We could have spared 2 or 3 years of us struggling with him if we dealt him at much higher value 2 years ago. Now we are where we are. And guess what...maybe he gets better. He is not a finished product at 23, so he can get better, but I knew this would be a long haul with him. Maybe he gets there by 25 or 26, but it isn't happening now. It is time. Unless you want to give him a deal worth 3 or 4 mill per over 3 seasons.

 

[theProdigy223]

Chuck there's no way we should have traded him 3 years ago. Hell it was his second season in the league, why would you give up on a a kid who actually had a pretty good rookie season that quickly? (EDIT: When he was like what, 19 years old)? I'll give you last year and last offseason (even though I wouldn't have), but three years ago would have made no sense at all.

 

[chuckd3534]

And I disgaree with you guys. I would have dealt him 2 or 3 seasons ago and said so at the time. And BTW...I would have only done so for good value. No way would I deal him for anything less than very good value. The kid has a very large learning curve. We all get many things wrong and some things right, this is one I nailed (there are many I missed on). DZ is what he is right now. Maybe he gets better as he gets older, but for now he is not that good. Deal him to a team looking towards the future in 2 years or so. He'd be a great fit there.

 

[NYR31]

what's (very) good value. Tell us the player(s) you would have accepted 3yrs ago for him.

 

[chuckd3534]

I am not playing your game 31. I am fed up with your nonsense and have been for a long time. For you to throw some ridiculous comment at me about hindsight is a joke. I have been saying for 2 years + deal MDZ, so hindsight my a**. And you know that.

You do your thing on here and I will do mine. I don't like your attitude and never have. I am just the only one who will call you on your short, rude, smug responses.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

they have to do something because this team stinks.

Fuck Kreider, he's done shit for us. Trade him for a guy that can score, a vet or prospect, whatever.

This has to be the only team that cannot produce a prospect that can score goals.

 

[Ranger71]

For DZ to get max value in a trade you'd have to include a decent prospect with him. It's not too late for another team to get him turned around, but I just don't think he has the toughness or instincts to be an upper echelon puck mover in the league. Take what you can get for him which is average value, maybe Edmonton is willing to move Hemsky now for a DZ and prospect. I wouldn't trade Kreider just yet, I'd play him for a month or two and see how he trends, let's not forget he's only played in the playoffs and a handful of games in a strike year. One 20 goal guy isn't going to make all that much difference this year so they may as well wait a bit longer for a Krieder to see where it goes.

 

[chuckd3534]

Kreider I could go either way on. If we could get a big haul to help now I would deal him, otherwise hold for sure. DZ I would deal now for sure. Just no two ways around it. You package him with a mid prospect and you can get a decent scoring winger that can score 15-20 goals.

 

[NYR31]

A 15-20 gl scorer for MDZ + a prospect is a terrible return for a player of his age and potential. There were over 85 players who scored 20+gls in the last full season, so that's not an impact a strong return in any way.

 

[chuckd3534]

At this point that is what I would take for him and a low to mid level prospect. A good professional scoring winger. Someone who can score 20 or so. 2 years ago I would NOT have taken that for him. Either that or hold him and re-sign hm for 3 years at 3 or 4 mill per...your call.

 

[puck2]

may sound crazy, But what MDZ needs to do is get into a scrap or take an opportunity and stick up for a teammate. this will go a long way to get that scarred look he has in his eyes when he plays the game. when he gets that monkey off his back, the game will become calmer for him, and he will have a renewed confidence

 

[Ranger71]

If they could get Vrabta and Yandle for DZ, Kreider and a 1st i'd do that. That would be a nice package.

 

[chuckd3534]

8.2 mill for 3.9 mill...no shot we can afford that. As is we will be slightly over the cap when Hags comes back. We need to make some cost savings moves and get rid of the dead weight if we have other moves on our mind.

 

[Ranger71]

Yeah, apparently when I come up with these I'm oblivious to the cap.lol Phoenix is off to a good start too so they probably wouldn't go for it anyways. But a trade for those elements is what they need.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Chuck has been wanting to sell high on del zerro for quiet sometime.

the dimished mind of a soon to be 40 year old