Bye, bye, Andre Miller

[Minstrel]

I always enjoy when PapaG goes into his "All I did was quote stats. The stats are facts. " when the points he hoped to make with those stats are shot down.

That said, PapaG stimulates conversation during two pretty dull (IMO) football games. So kudos.

 

[PapaG]

Weakest reply to a legitimate point in about a week.

How many more wins do you think the team would have had, if Oden, Joel, Brandon, Nic, Travis and Rudy had stayed healthy?

Go Blazers

I have no idea. How many more wins would the team have had without Miller last year if the above were healthy? More than 54? Less than 54? Congrats on your own weak point based solely in speculation.

 

[Minstrel]

Totally false.

LOL

Not in terms of winning games. The team won 54 games with BLANKLY, with Miller, 50

It's a shame when you lose a debate...with yourself.

I just don't have any interest fishing for red herrings.

I remember when the traditional "I can't defend my position so I'll try to escape" excuse was "I don't have the time to argue this anymore, I have a real life."

 

[PapaG]

I always enjoy when PapaG goes into his "All I did was quote stats. The stats are facts. " when the points he hoped to make with those stats are shot down.

That said, PapaG stimulates conversation during two pretty dull (IMO) football games. So kudos.

Ha! I am literally sitting in a bar "watching" these games, and I keep coming back to this thread, because at least it interests me. The rest of the family is at Great Wolf for a "Moms and kids" weekend.

 

[Minstrel]

Ha! I am literally sitting in a bar "watching" these games, and I keep coming back to this thread, because at least it interests me.

Yeah, I'm doing the same thing at home.

 

[PapaG]

It's a shame when you lose a debate...with yourself.



I remember when the traditional "I can't defend my position so I'll try to escape" excuse was "I don't have the time to argue this anymore, I have a real life."

My position is the team won more games with Blake as PG than without him.

 

[Natebishop3]

How is pointing out a statistical fact "trolling"? I don't think much of Miller as the PG for the Blazers. Never have. If posting that makes me a troll, then there a ton of trolls on this board, including you, considering your act regardingNate McMillan. Didn't you actually wish for the team to fail last year, just so you could be consdiered "right" about Nate being a bad coach?

Because you're completely disregarding all the injuries last season (and this season) by comparing the 54 win season without Miller, and the two seasons since. It seems like you're ignoring the facts on purpose. Just my two cents.

 

[Natebishop3]

There's nothing new to add to this discussion imo. It's gone as far as it can go. If you feel you need to the last word, go ahead.

Good discussion.

I think it's a legitimate question. You do not think that Roy should be held to a higher standard than the rest of the team? It's a serious question.

 

[Minstrel]

My position is the team won more games with Blake as PG than without him.

That's not a position, that's an observation. Your clear position through this thread (and many others) is that, based on that observation, BLANKY did more for the Blazers than Miller did. Which means that you are crediting BLANKY with those wins. As you said, you evaluate players by wins. Unless PER supports your position, as with the Wes Matthews debate in the off-season. Then PER is important.

 

[Natebishop3]

That's not a position, that's an observation. Your clear position through this thread (and many others) is that, based on that observation, BLANKY did more for the Blazers than Miller did. Which means that you are crediting BLANKY with those wins. As you said, you evaluate players by wins. Unless PER supports your position, as with the Wes Matthews debate in the off-season. Then PER is important.

My position is that Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, and John Stockton are not as good as Steve Kerr, Luc Longley, and Bill Wennington because the Bulls won 72 games in one season, and three championships with that group. They had more wins, and more championships, therefore they were better than Ewing, Barkley, and Stockton.

 

[oldguy]

I'm pretty sure that one of his positions is that the Blazers should waive Dre.

I'm still hoping he'll tell me if he thinks the team will be better with AJ and PM at the point, after Dre is waived. Hell, for that matter if he thinks the team would be better with Blake at PG, after Dre is waived.

Go Blazers

 

[BBert]

Speaking of Patty Mills....

Great thread. Awesome stuff.

But, speaking of Patty Mills, I don't believe I have ever seen a worse defender. He looks like a little kid out there, or worse yet, me, trying to guard NBA players. Patty is fun to watch on offense, but Patty makes Sergio Rodriguez look like an All NBA defensive team member.

Carry on.

 

[BBert]

There have been times over the last two seasons when Andre Miller was the best player on the floor for us. He is adept at picking his spots to score, when others aren't getting the job done. Yes, he does look a little disinterested at the moment -- understandable since every basketball player and fan on earth who is paying attention knows he's going to be traded. And yet, consummate professional that he is, he is still playing darn good basketball. The guy is the best PG we've had since Rod Strickland for crying out loud. I do hope, however, that this year or next we can upgrade the position for a player who can take us into the future. Nothing personal, Dre.

 

[PapaG]

I'm waiting, this ought to be good.

Chauncey Billups
Steve Nash
Tony Parker
Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
Jason Kidd
Deron Williams
Aaron Brooks
Kyle Lowry
Luke Ridnour

That's 10 in the West that I'd prefer over Miller, although Rid may be a stretch. Shall I move to the East?

 

[PapaG]

I always enjoy when PapaG goes into his "All I did was quote stats. The stats are facts. " when the points he hoped to make with those stats are shot down.

That said, PapaG stimulates conversation during two pretty dull (IMO) football games. So kudos.

The points I made haven't been "shot down" with anything other than a differing opinion.

 

[PapaG]

Because you're completely disregarding all the injuries last season (and this season) by comparing the 54 win season without Miller, and the two seasons since. It seems like you're ignoring the facts on purpose. Just my two cents.

Didn't Webster miss most of the 54-win season? I think the roster that was blasted by many posters at that time needs to be taken into account as well.

 

[PapaG]

I'm pretty sure that one of his positions is that the Blazers should waive Dre.
I'm still hoping he'll tell me if he thinks the team will be better with AJ and PM at the point, after Dre is waived. Hell, for that matter if he thinks the team would be better with Blake at PG, after Dre is waived.

Go Blazers

Well, I said he shouldn't be re-upped if he can't be traded, but I did also say that maybe the OP was correct, as well.

I'd lean more toward the former, though.

 

[oldguy]

 

[MickZagger]

Ha! I am literally sitting in a bar "watching" these games, and I keep coming back to this thread, because at least it interests me. The rest of the family is at Great Wolf for a "Moms and kids" weekend.

If I was your wife I'd never want to be around you either.

 

[PapaG]

If I was your wife I'd never want to be around you either.

Keep dreaming, Studly.

 

[SnakeOiler]

I don't want him on my team. You can waive him as far as I'm concerned.

Its not your team. Its the team you root for.

 

[Blazer4ever]

He doesn't play good defense, he controlls the ball too much on offense and hurts our flow. I wouldn't give Patty 35 minutes but I would give Patty and Armon 40+ if not an entire game and feel better than when Miller is playing.
This is not my team more than it is your team but I - personaly - don't want us to play Andre Miller anymore. I also don't see any glaring weakness or need that has to be filled. As far as I'm concerned we should waive him or trade him for cap-space. The kings have cap-space and could use a Point-Guard. We don't need him and what he brings but he could be an important player for a team like the Kings. Him playing for the Blazers is a waste of time for him and the Blazers and a waste of Paul Allen's money.

 

[BlayZa]

He doesn't play good defense, he controlls the ball too much on offense and hurts our flow. I wouldn't give Patty 35 minutes but I would give Patty and Armon 40+ if not an entire game and feel better than when Miller is playing.
This is not my team more than it is your team but I - personaly - don't want us to play Andre Miller anymore. I also don't see any glaring weakness or need that has to be filled. As far as I'm concerned we should waive him or trade him for cap-space. The kings have cap-space and could use a Point-Guard. We don't need him and what he brings but he could be an important player for a team like the Kings. Him playing for the Blazers is a waste of time for him and the Blazers and a waste of Paul Allen's money.

OK,
Brandon is that you?
I did lolz at the 'waste of Paul Allen's money' part

 

[Denny Crane]

Miller's a mixed bag. He's always put up nice numbers on not so great teams. He's never been THE MAN on any team. He's old, so there's not much future for him to build around.

You'd be worse without him for lack of anyone decent to replace him with.

 

[Blazer4ever]

Brandon Roy is a very good example. He was a much better player than Miller but him having alpha-dog status and him needing the ball in his hands too much made us predictable and guardable.
LMA should pass more and I see beautiful things happen every time he passes out of the double team but him getting many touches inside is not a bad thing. Miller playing over Armon Johnson and even over more minutes for Patty Mills is not a good coaching/management decision.

 

[RipCityInsider]

Brandon Roy is a very good example. He was a much better player than Miller but him having alpha-dog status and him needing the ball in his hands too much made us predictable and guardable.
LMA should pass more and I see beautiful things happen every time he passes out of the double team but him getting many touches inside is not a bad thing. Miller playing over Armon Johnson and even over more minutes for Patty Mills is not a good coaching/management decision.

We had the 2nd and 7th best offense in terms of efficiency in the NBA the last couple of years. I would stray away from using Brandon as the scapegoat. Sure, fans didn't like watching that brand of basketball because it wasn't GO GO GO GO GO..RUN RUN RUN. It wasn't entertaining to them, however whether you like it or not, it was efficient. Plain and Simple.

 

[oldguy]

I don't want him on my team. You can waive him as far as I'm concerned.

Miller should have changed his game to make his 2nd-team All-NBA SG an even better player. Instead, he pouted, whined, and ultimately failed, as per usual, in the playoffs. He's an odd one, that Miller. Playing the exact same way over his entire NBA career, finally getting a chance to play with a legitimate All-NBA star, and then pinning the blame on Roy.

The OP is right. The more I think about it, the more I may just waive the guy or not pick up his option if no good trades are available. He's a proven loser who can't defend.

BRILLIANT!

So, which of you two geniuses want to explain how waiving Dre would have been superior to using him to acquire a younger starting PG?

Never mind that the Blazers absolutely would NOT have made the playoffs without Dre last season.

Please enlighten us.

Go Blazers

 

[PapaG]

BRILLIANT!

So, which of you two geniuses want to explain how waiving Dre would have been superior to using him to acquire a younger starting PG?

Never mind that the Blazers absolutely would NOT have made the playoffs without Dre last season.

Please enlighten us.

Go Blazers

Speaking of brilliant, you forgot to bold the second half of that sentence.

The more I think about it, the more I may just waive the guy or not pick up his option if no good trades are available.

"if no good trades are available."

I like the Felton trade, so I prefer that over not picking up 'Dre's option. What is it you were trying to prove? If no good trades were available, I may have preferred to not pick up Miller's option. That's a moot point now. He's traded, and he's Denver's player now.

 

[oldguy]

Speaking of brilliant, you forgot to bold the second half of that sentence.



"if no good trades are available."

I like the Felton trade, so I prefer that over not picking up 'Dre's option. What is it you were trying to prove? If no good trades were available, I may have preferred to not pick up Miller's option. That's a moot point now. He's traded, and he's Denver's player now.

You were saying to waive him a month before the trade deadline. Odd you've never disputed that you advocated for waiving him when we've discussed it before.

If you wanted the team to waive him, at what point in the season did you want them to do that?

Go Blazers

Go Blazers

 

[PapaG]

You were saying to waive him a month before the trade deadline. Odd you've never disputed that you advocated for waiving him when we've discussed it before.

If you wanted the team to waive him, at what point in the season did you want them to do that?

Go Blazers

Go Blazers

I said I'd consider it, and would support it. That said, clearly it wasn't a definitive position.

Again, what's your point by bumping this thread?