Bynum vs Oden= mismatch?

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Moo2K4 said:
And again...can I just say that we will agree to disagree? I find no point in arguing this topic. You have your beliefs, I have mine. We're not going to change one anothers thoughts and it's just going to end being a circular argument, which, in the end, is pointless.
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I guess. I think you're taking a rather homerish stand, detemined to defend "your player" at all costs, but can't really defend it because it's not a rational stand. Do you think if the Lakers had Oden, you'd be wishing the Lakers had Bynum instead?

No need to answer. ;)
 
Minstrel said:
The point is not that he was playing a ton. The point is that the NBA is hardly new to him this year. He's definitely played enough over the past few years to have a feel and understanding for the game. These are Oden's first NBA games.
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You're right, he has played enough, and I'd have to say he has a good understanding of the game. If you watch him play, you'd see that too.

It helps more than not playing basketball. I don't see any evidence that it helps more than playing in the NBA. Players like Kobe, McGrady, Garnett didn't show much ill effect from skipping college.
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And all those players that you mentioned got a lot of playing time immediately. Bynum didn't. Really, really awful comparisons.

Those are a couple of the reasons Oden is considered more talented...
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Don't really see how. Bynum has since gotten a very good NBA body...he's about 7'1" and at least 270lbs now, with a whole lot of muscle on there, especially in comparison to his first couple years in the NBA.

Plus..how does having an NBA ready body make you more talented? I don't get it. In my book...it just means you're in better shape than someone else. That's not really talent.
 
Minstrel said:
I guess. I think you're taking a rather homerish stand, detemined to defend "your player" at all costs, but can't really defend it because it's not a rational stand. Do you think if the Lakers had Oden, you'd be wishing the Lakers had Bynum instead?

No need to answer. ;)
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You are also taking a rather homerish stand there my friend. And I don't really see how it's irrational. I feel that I'm making legit points, you just care to think otherwise. It's just a matter of opinion. As I said, I have mine, you have yours, and neither of us are going to budge.

And to answer your question, I have no idea. That's hypothetical to the extreme, and it would all have to do with how Oden fit in with the Lakers.
 
Moo2K4 said:
You're right, he has played enough, and I'd have to say he has a good understanding of the game. If you watch him play, you'd see that too.
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I do. And despite lacking any of that, Oden is matching Bynum in less minutes. Due to much superior talent.

And all those players that you mentioned got a lot of playing time immediately. Bynum didn't. Really, really awful comparisons.
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I'm not comparing them. I'm pointing out that skipping college doesn't hurt development. It's not some advantage for Oden that he played in college. It's an advantage to Bynum that he got to play in the NBA earlier and get acclimatized to the game. Oden would have skipped college, too, had the rules not been changed. Despite that advantage Bynum got, Oden is already at least as good as him (and arguably better due to defense).

Plus..how does having an NBA ready body make you more talented? I don't get it. In my book...it just means you're in better shape than someone else. That's not really talent.
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Well, I meant his body in general. He has a big, powerful frame and yet his measurables showed that he has the freakish athleticism of smaller framed players like Dwight Howard.

And having great defensive instincts, which is the reason he's able to play excellent defense from his first NBA minute, is definitely talent.
 
Moo2K4 said:
You are also taking a rather homerish stand there my friend.
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How so? My position is the same one taken by essentially the entire scouting communty, who have rated Oden the best center prospect of his generation and have been saying so since his sophomore year in high school. Are all the NBA scouts Portland homers? :)

And I don't really see how it's irrational. I feel that I'm making legit points
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You haven't actually made a single legitimate point. Your points basically boil down to "Not really, but whatever." Oden is arguably better than Bynum despite a huge difference in NBA experience, despite not yet being in full NBA shape, despite playing fewer minutes and despite being surrounded by more scorers.

You've really not addressed any of that. You're simply insisting Bynum is better because he's on your favourite team. I'm actually using facts and pointing out the scouting community's consensus on Oden. That's the difference.
 
Minstrel said:
I'm not comparing them. I'm pointing out that skipping college doesn't hurt development. It's not some advantage for Oden that he played in college. It's an advantage to Bynum that he got to play in the NBA earlier and get acclimatized to the game. Oden would have skipped college, too, had the rules not been changed. Despite that advantage Bynum got, Oden is already at least as good as him (and arguably better due to defense).
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I don't see how Bynum got an advantage from getting to ride the pine for a year...call me crazy, but I don't see how that worked out to his advantage. He gained very, very little experience that year. And to say he got used to the game...not a chance. He didn't really get acclimated to the game until his 2nd season in the NBA.

And again...while you can argue that Oden is better because of his defense, one could argue that Bynum is better because he has a bit more of a polished offensive game.

Well, I meant his body in general. He has a big, powerful frame and yet his measurables showed that he has the freakish athleticism of smaller framed players like Dwight Howard.

And having great defensive instincts, which is the reason he's able to play excellent defense from his first NBA minute, is definitely talent.
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I won't deny that his defensive instincts aren't based on talent, because those are things you really can't teach. However...you really do discount Bynum's defense. With the way you talk about Oden, it seems like you think Bynum is hot garbage on defense, and that's not the case. He's a very, very good post defender and is the biggest reason why the Lakers have played well on defense this year.
 
Minstrel owns you. If Oden played for the Lakers, there is NO WAY that you would trade him for Bynum. Saying that Oden is better than Bynum isn't an opinion. It's fact. I suppose for the rest of your life, you could try to convince yourself that Derek Fisher is better than Chris Paul but it doesn't make it true.
 
Bynum hasn't had a 20/10 game this year in his 4th season. Oden had one in his 4th GAME. Off the BENCH. Bynum has been starting.
 
Moo2K4 said:
However...you really do discount Bynum's defense. With the way you talk about Oden, it seems like you think Bynum is hot garbage on defense
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I don't think that. We should be clear on this: I think Bynum is a very good young player. I expect him to be a multiple-time All-Star. However, based on his high school and college career, what basically every scout said about him, and based on how good he's been in his first games, I think Oden will be the best center in the league. It might not happen, but all the evidence so far points to Oden being considerably more talented.

I think Bynum is a good defender. And has the ability to be very good. Oden is already a game-changing presence on defense. When he comes into games, you can see slashers change their shot attempts in the paint, trying to throw it high enough to get it over Oden. Or they pass. And this is without any experience.
 
Moo2K4 said:
And all those players that you mentioned got a lot of playing time immediately. Bynum didn't. Really, really awful comparisons.
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McGrady got 18.7 minutes per game with the Raptors as a rookie.

Kobe got 15.5 minutes per game with the Lakers as a rookie.

Garnett was the only one who had significant minutes as a rookie, with 28.7 mpg on a terrible T-Wolves team.

Sure, Bynum only got 7.3 mpg as a rookie, but it's not like Kobe or T-Mac were starting as rookies. They saw consistent minutes, but Garnett was the only one who was given significant minutes as a rookie.
 
The numbers you should look at are here:

PER for centers in the league - Oden #6, Bynum #7
Rebounding Rate for centers in the league - Oden #1, Bynum #22
TS% - Oden #12, Bynum #31


.. and Oden is out of shape and after more than a year away from basketball. Add the fact that Bynum had the advantage of one-on-one tutoring by Kareem when Oden was in high-school, college and wounded - and the entire argument just makes no sense.

Bynum is a great center, probably all-star material - and the Lakers should be delighted with their ability to see him potential and snag him at the #10 pick - great, great draft choice.

But - the only thing that will stop Oden from being a better player is health.

Oden is like a new version of Shaq with more interest in defense and less interest in offense.
 
andalusian said:
The numbers you should look at are here:

PER for centers in the league - Oden #6, Bynum #7
Rebounding Rate for centers in the league - Oden #1, Bynum #22
TS% - Oden #12, Bynum #31


.. and Oden is out of shape and after more than a year away from basketball. Add the fact that Bynum had the advantage of one-on-one tutoring by Kareem when Oden was in high-school, college and wounded - and the entire argument just makes no sense.

Bynum is a great center, probably all-star material - and the Lakers should be delighted with their ability to see him potential and snag him at the #10 pick - great, great draft choice.

But - the only thing that will stop Oden from being a better player is health.

Oden is like a new version of Shaq with more interest in defense and less interest in offense.
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Mo Lucas has already compared Greg's game to Nate "The Great" Thurmond; one of the fifty greatest players of all time, known more for his defense and rebounding than scoring. That's pretty rarified air.
 
It is interesting to me to watch the "Bynum vs Oden" argument change over the last few months.

It started off with the Lakers saying Oden would NOT be as good as Bynum THIS YEAR.

It moved to Laker fans saying that Oden's and Bynum's ceiling for their careers was at a similar level.

When Oden hurt his foot the first game, it changed to Laker fans saying Bynum will be better than Oden, and he will just be injury prone.

NOW... Laker fans are trying to change the argument, and make excuses for Bynum, and saying that he shouldn't be as good as Oden because he wasn't as highly regarded as Oden.

I like the trend I am seeing! Keep it up Laker fans.
 
Bynum is better than Oden and will be better than Oden for his entire career...Put that in your pipe and smoke it
 
I think people are forgetting how young these guys are. Players like LeBron and Dwight Howard have raised the bar to almost unreachable levels. I won't speak on Bynum, but Greg is going to be just fine. I am honestly getting tired of these roller coaster fans on here. Greg goes from being Sam Bowie one night to Shaq the next. He's going to have some rough games ahead of him. He is still learning the pro game, but he will be a dominant force in this league for the next decade! Checkmate!
 
We will only be getting a true gauge of them starting next year at the earliest
 
Oden looked really good last night. I think at one point he had 9 pts 7 rbs, and a block in 9 min. thats crazy. Bynum has a better offensive game, but i don't see how you could say hes better than oden. if you want to make the arguement that bynum has kobe, gasol, etc on his team so his numbers are low, then i ask you this: if bynum is so good, why hasn't he jumped gasol, bench, odom, on the scoring option latter? the way some people on here talk about him, it seems like he should be the teams second option after kobe. So far this season in which oden has received ample playing time, he has averaged about 16/9/3. and that was all in about 20 MPG! pretty good i think, and i would definitely say hes better than bynum.
 
the way some people on here talk about him, it seems like he should be the teams second option after kobe
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He will be sooner than later, Pau has the better offensive game at the moment
 
What is the avatar with the big question mark on the head? A bunch of people have it and I don't know what it is! And Rizzles avatar is just plain offensive!
 
In terms of athletic ability and strength, Oden is on a whole 'nother planet than Bynum. It really isn't close.
 
Hmmmm.....I think this debate is over. Long term? Come on L*ker fans......you aren't *that* myopic are you?

I know you're that uneducated, but are you that stupid? Hahaha.....I joke....having fun.....(kind of)
 
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