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Most thieves are only thieves because of how shitty America is.

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You mean our punishment needs to be tougher. I agree 100%.

I remember as a child going into a 7-11 and stealing a candy bar with a friend of mine. We got caught and I got my ass beat with a belt. My friend laughed at me and said his parents told him he shouldn't do it again.

He did, I didn't.
 
I don't even know where to start here, so I won't. Read up on the free trade agreements between the first world and developing countries.
Read what? Who would the authority on Nafta be? You? I am pretty sure the subsidized corn imports are the main problem the rural farmers in Mexico faced. Read that years ago on city data. Their prices dropped over half and put millions of them out of business so the poorest most uneducated of them moved here by the millions.

I believe it was something to the effect of the manufacturing jobs created didn't make up for the loss of farming jobs.

You're the one who said I don't know the issue so I stated what I remember reading but in typical holier than thou liberal bullshit you will claim you are above it all and move along.

Whatever Nafta did or didn't do to help them I still want to know how we forced it on them.
 
Most thieves are only thieves because of how shitty America is.

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Chicken or the egg once again? Which came first? Strange how shitty old America still can't keep people from wanting to come here. If we are so shitty they should stay home and build a country better than us.
 
Chicken or the egg once again? Which came first? Strange how shitty old America still can't keep people from wanting to come here. If we are so shitty they should stay home and build a country better than us.

When I say America is shitty, I'm saying it is shitty relative to how we are viewed my the majority of people, Americans and foreigners alike. Our problems are largely ignored by the masses.

And obviously my "thieves are thieves because of poverty" statement was meant to be universal, I shouldn't have specified America.
 
Wrong. In any other country he would be either deported or imprisoned. He's a liar and a cheat, and because California aids and abets his criminal behaviour some far more honest and deserving soul is robbed of the opportunity to legally become an American.

He is no more admirable than any other common thief.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of MARIS61, a fictional message board character created for my amusement, and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of any real person alive or deceased.
 
Read what? Who would the authority on Nafta be? You? I am pretty sure the subsidized corn imports are the main problem the rural farmers in Mexico faced. Read that years ago on city data. Their prices dropped over half and put millions of them out of business so the poorest most uneducated of them moved here by the millions.

I believe it was something to the effect of the manufacturing jobs created didn't make up for the loss of farming jobs.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Add to that decimation of small businesses (much like here in America) and you've got a pretty good reason for many Mexicans to flee north.

You're the one who said I don't know the issue so I stated what I remember reading but in typical holier than thou liberal bullshit you will claim you are above it all and move along.

Whatever Nafta did or didn't do to help them I still want to know how we forced it on them.

I said you didn't know the issue because you said stupid shit like this:

What's the issue there genius? Explain how a trade agreement we apparently forced on them ruined their country. Explain how this agreement from the 90s is responsible for illegal immigrants coming here by the millions. I know that we send tons of meat and corn to them now. They don't want to eat imported food? Me either. They can cut off our corn and raise the price of theirs. They just won't have enough...not my problem.

Oh wait, that's the excuse you are making. We ruined their corn prices right? So they had to move here and get free shit? Well, I never liked Nafta in the first place. I guess this kinda reinforces my point. Mexico had other resources besides the ability to grow corn. My gramps grew kickass corn in his garden, not exactly something I would want a whole economy to depend on.

Seriously, there is so much confusion going on here. In the first paragraph, you fail to see the connection between the loss of jobs and emigration, but then in the second paragraph, you kind of do? Maybe? It's hard to tell. Are you suggesting that the problem in Mexico is they don't want to eat imported food? Or is that a joke I'm not getting? And are you really saying that the entire Mexican economy is based on corn? I'm having some trouble following your line of reasoning.

And when did I say that NAFTA ruined the country? And when the hell did I even suggest that we forced Mexico into signing NAFTA? It's like your making up my arguments for me and then having a very unclear debate with yourself.
 
It certainly did what it was designed to do (besides curb illegal immigration).

It curbed illegal immigration, too.

This year is the first in a while that the rate of immigration from mexico is up.
 
So you are saying aliens should treat the immigration laws like drivers treat speed limits: ignore them unless there is a cop in sight.

barfo

I think he's saying when people get caught breaking our laws as this illegal has, they should be prosecuted.
 
I think NAFTA has been rather successful.

During its time in effect, quite a few factories have been built in Mexico providing good paying jobs. The export of US goods to Mexico has risen, which means the standard of living in Mexico has to have risen in proportion. We have a trade deficit of $50B+ with Mexico, all of that money boosts their GDP and allows them to invest. Mexico's own GDP has grown faster than the USA's since NAFTA was enacted.

I don't think a whole lot of jobs moved to Mexico as Perot warned. The "made in china" stamped on everything from clothing to electronics to durable goods seems to indicate China (and India, too) is where the bulk of manufacturing jobs are.

Mexico is just a terribly poor nation. Their GDP is about $2T and their population is 121M. That's roughly $9,700 per person, compared to about $50,000 per person in the USA. The money isn't divided evenly per person, though. A good job in most places in Mexico can pay $300/month. You try and live on that.

The wall we're building and the war on drugs has turned Mexico into a gangland. The economic incentives of the war on drugs (higher drug prices, massive profits) work in the gangs' favor. The wall and increased presence of armed border patrol has turned one of the longest peaceful borders into a battle zone.

I'm not getting the open borders thing being a disaster. For the most part, those who want to cross our borders without going through customs are getting through.

Yet, we can see from the data that 90% of Mexicans stay in Mexico. There's no rush for the border as fear mongers claim. I mean, do the math: 120M population in Mexico, 12M "illegal" immigrants total, most from Mexico.

ummm, there are 34 million people of Mexican descent in the US. The 12m you speak of are just the current crop under discussion, a repeat of previous discussions.
 
Why do we have this debate over immigration year after year repeatedly?

The question that needs to be answered is what is the desired population of the US?
The number of residents that we need to support the live style the citizens of this Nation deserve?

Not long after WWII the population of the US was 150 million, China at that time was 600 million and everyone knew without question that was far too many people for any country.

Today the population of the both countries has more than doubled and the US in currently on a path to double again to 600 million before the next century. China is not on a path to double.

If we knew 60 years ago, 600 million is too many, why are we on that path?
Why do we plead for the compassion and humanity to bring in more for what ever good reason, or to exploit, if we know we are on the path to too many?
 
Why do we have this debate over immigration year after year repeatedly?

The question that needs to be answered is what is the desired population of the US?
The number of residents that we need to support the live style the citizens of this Nation deserve?

Not long after WWII the population of the US was 150 million, China at that time was 600 million and everyone knew without question that was far too many people for any country.

Today the population of the both countries has more than doubled and the US in currently on a path to double again to 600 million before the next century. China is not on a path to double.

If we knew 60 years ago, 600 million is too many, why are we on that path?

Too many people having too many kids, I'd say.
Doesn't have much to do with immigration, legal or otherwise.

Edit: I guess immigration is 30% of population growth at present, which is higher than I thought - but still the major factor is too many people having too many kids (and, I guess, us old farts not dying quickly enough).

barfo
 
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Too many people having too many kids, I'd say.
Doesn't have much to do with immigration, legal or otherwise.

Edit: I guess immigration is 30% of population growth at present, which is higher than I thought - but still the major factor is too many people having too many kids (and, I guess, us old farts not dying quickly enough).

barfo

Your take on immigration and population growth needs a bit of perspective.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...ering_white_births_for_the_first_time_in.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjourn...rowth-rate-for-black-population.html?page=all

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/ne...ary-growth-americas-hispanic-population/6733/


I think you can put the population growth squarely on the immigration policies and lack of enforcement of the law. Well perhaps I should say lack of a coherent immigration policy
 
Too bad for the white guys.

We're a melting pot. let it melt. If it means I need to learn spanish, I will.
 
Too bad for the white guys.

We're a melting pot. let it melt. If it means I need to learn spanish, I will.

Oh hell, you can melt all you want with a weekly run to Tijuana. No need to mutate the whole nation.
 
Oh hell, you can melt all you want with a weekly run to Tijuana. No need to mutate the whole nation.

The nation is all immigrants or decedents of immigrants, except for the native americans (indians).

What makes "your kind" more special than the natives who were here all along?
 
Your take on immigration and population growth needs a bit of perspective.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...ering_white_births_for_the_first_time_in.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjourn...rowth-rate-for-black-population.html?page=all

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/ne...ary-growth-americas-hispanic-population/6733/


I think you can put the population growth squarely on the immigration policies and lack of enforcement of the law. Well perhaps I should say lack of a coherent immigration policy

I didn't see anywhere in any of those links that immigration is responsible. Yes, hispanics are out-reproducing blacks, and blacks are out-reproducing whites. So what? Not every hispanic is an immigrant. If you want to know the cause of hispanic population growth, look towards the catholic church, not the US immigration policies.

barfo
 
The nation is all immigrants or decedents of immigrants, except for the native americans (indians).

What makes "your kind" more special than the natives who were here all along?

Blond hair, Green eyes. All of my grandson have the trait.

And perhaps Guns, Germs, and Steel. Granfather's Claymore is stunning to behold, claidheamh mòr is the correct term.
 
Blond hair, Green eyes. All of my grandson have the trait.

And perhaps Guns, Germs, and Steel. Granfather's Claymore is stunning to behold, claidheamh mòr is the correct term.

So wait, your hair and eye color make your more special than others? Or is it your ancestor's murderous past?
 
So wait, your hair and eye color make your more special than others? Or is it your ancestor's murderous past?

Why is it ok to bring up his ancestors murderous past, but when I bring up the % of black people convicted of murder or in prison for rape I am racist?

Just checking
 
I've read it.

Don't worry, the potentially racist thing you said is fine. I've learned from this forum that most people just want to spout whatever they spout and not have to be challenged on it. Carry on.

Why are you being so intolerant of Mar's beliefs? Show me specifically which word he used that was racists.
 
Why is it ok to bring up his ancestors murderous past, but when I bring up the % of black people convicted of murder or in prison for rape I am racist?

Just checking

If they pass a law making it a felony to jaywalk and then the police arrest black people in black neighborhoods for jaywalking but let the white folk slide when they do it elsewhere, of course the jails will be way more filled with black people.
 
If they pass a law making it a felony to jaywalk and then the police arrest black people in black neighborhoods for jaywalking but let the white folk slide when they do it elsewhere, of course the jails will be way more filled with black people.

Ah, so I should feel free to rape and kill because i'm white?

How many of white killers and rapists are walking around right now?
 

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