Can gay people be Christian? (1 Viewer)

[MarAzul]

"glean" = apply what you already know to pick and choose.

also I'm guessing whatever beneficial philosophy you think qualifies as the "Christian way" can be found in Buddhism which predates Christianity.

Is that right? What is the book of Buddhism called? Have you read it?

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

This is a really fun read, the thoughts are presented very well in here. Although, I am not myself a religious man, it is undoubtedly fascinating to see the banter back and forth.

Personally, I'm more along the fence of - I believe being gay is a choice, but not one that makes you good or bad. I know some people do -choose- to be gay, as I've had a couple "homosexual" friends of mine say a certain experience led them down the current path they are on. I also think the bible is full of nonsense, such as not tattooing yourself, eating selfish, and other extravagant claims.

 

[crandc]

Because I didn't want to be crooked?

That said, I believe the Bible in its entirety. It also teaches that premarital sex between a man and a woman is a sin.

So do you also support slavery and killing disobedient children? Every eat a pepperoni pizza? Do you deserve death for that? If you believe in the bible in its entirety you believe those things. Do you also believe the sun stood still? Does the sun travel around the earth? That's in the bible.

And you didn't answer my question. If sexual orientation is a choice, when and why and how did you choose to be straight? At what time in your life did you assess the relative advantages of being gay, straight, bi, and choose being straight?

 

[tlongII]

You will one day. Remember me when it happens.

I will most likely never discover the entire truth. The journey will be interesting though.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Well that Jesus guy was CLEARLY gay.

 

[Further]

And you didn't answer my question. If sexual orientation is a choice, when and why and how did you choose to be straight? At what time in your life did you assess the relative advantages of being gay, straight, bi, and choose being straight?

For me it was May 13th 1992. I was in the kitchen, Gerald was in the hot tub and Janet was in my bed. Both were tempting but I really didn't feel like getting all wet, so I decided to be strait.

JK, I love who I love and there aint no choosing.

 

[Further]

Well that Jesus guy was CLEARLY gay.

great abs on that man!

 

[Further]

Well that Jesus guy was CLEARLY gay.

Brings new meaning to "sermon on the mount"

 

[crowTrobot]

Is that right? What is the book of Buddhism called? Have you read it?

I don't get my notions of morality from books

 

[MarAzul]

I don't get my notions of morality from books

Blessed with special powers! That's marvelous and convenient. I tried to read more about
Buddhism but they have no Book that you could call the, word of god.
There are some pithy writings by some monks but apparently you need to learn the religion directly from the monks. But now we have you! Perhaps you can share your gift and enlighten us with your knowledge of Buddha and the blessings of Buddhism.

The floor is yours.

 

[HailBlazers]

If sexual orientation is a choice, when and why and how did you choose to be straight? At what time in your life did you assess the relative advantages of being gay, straight, bi, and choose being straight?

I don't believe sexual orientation is a choice, but I do believe acts of homosexuality are unnatural and wrong. IMO, you can be gay and Christian, unfortunately you must choose to abstain/stray from from sexual acts and desires towards your fellow gender. Not easy, but neither is being married and fully faithful to one woman your whole life.

 

[crandc]

I don't believe sexual orientation is a choice, but I do believe acts of homosexuality are unnatural and wrong. IMO, you can be gay and Christian, unfortunately you must choose to abstain/stray from from sexual acts and desires towards your fellow gender. Not easy, but neither is being married and fully faithful to one woman your whole life.

Based on what? Since homosexuality exists in every animal species studied and in every human civilization known, how can it be unnatural? And while it may be possible to abstain from sexual acts, how does a sexual species abstain from sexual desire?

I could be married and faithful to one woman my entire life, however, if I find the right one.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

how does a sexual species abstain from sexual desire?

jesus got boners

 

[Further]

jesus got boners

but only in the shape of the cross

 

[HailBlazers]

Since homosexuality exists in every animal species studied and in every human civilization known, how can it be unnatural?

Yes it exists in the animal kingdom and in all civilizations of the world, but that does not make it right. While we have monkey like instincts for survival, humans are in-fact infinitely more evolved, with spiritual and moral minds that no non-human being possess. It might be a natural tendency, but we as humans must be held to a higher standard than the animal kingdom for the sake of the entire world.

And while it may be possible to abstain from sexual acts, how does a sexual species abstain from sexual desire?

Not easily, especially with the vast pressures from our morally degraded society. However, with the properly aligned spiritual vertical any inflection of the flesh can be overcome. Our bodies are without a doubt, our own worst enemies.

 

[MarAzul]

Based on what? Since homosexuality exists in every animal species studied and in every human civilization known, how can it be unnatural? And while it may be possible to abstain from sexual acts, how does a sexual species abstain from sexual desire?

I could be married and faithful to one woman my entire life, however, if I find the right one.

Humbleness, truthfulness, and harmlessness,
Patience and honour, reverence for the wise.
Purity, constancy, control of self,
Contempt of sense-delights, self-sacrifice,
Perception of the certitude of ill
In birth, death, age, disease, suffering, and sin;
Detachment, lightly holding unto home,
Children, and wife, and all that bindeth men;
An ever-tranquil heart in fortunes good
And fortunes evil, with a will set firm
To worship Me--Me only! ceasing not;
Loving all solitudes, and shunning noise
Of foolish crowds; endeavours resolute
To reach perception of the Utmost Soul,
And grace to understand what gain it were
So to attain,--this is true Wisdom, Prince!
And what is otherwise is ignorance!


From the Hindu religion. Islam and the Koran only mention men and women in the context of Married. Matthew in the Bible make it very clear that men and women marry.

Live with a women if you will but calling it Married is sticking a thumb in the eye of every person of all religions.

That seems like an odd thing to make lawful.

 

[Further]

From the Hindu religion. Islam and the Koran only mention men and women in the context of Married. Matthew in the Bible make it very clear that men and women marry.

Live with a women if you will but calling it Married is sticking a thumb in the eye of every person of all religions.

That seems like an odd thing to make lawful.

My parents are religious and believe marriage should be available to all loving couples, and they are very far from alone. Many many people of every major religion would disagree with your assertion that getting married is "sticking a thumb in the eye of every person of all religions"

But even as such, there is no pressure for your church to marry. Does it affect you if a Hindu man and a woman get married? What about a Hindu gay couple? Neither couple would be accepted by your church, If you belong to a Catholic church, they care about Catholics getting married, not Hindus. Same with Protestant, Jewish, and so on. But if instead of being Hindu they are simply nothing, or Unitarian or some branch that does recognize them, then you claim this matters. How? How are you affected?

 

[crandc]

Yes it exists in the animal kingdom and in all civilizations of the world, but that does not make it right. While we have monkey like instincts for survival, humans are in-fact infinitely more evolved, with spiritual and moral minds that no non-human being possess. It might be a natural tendency, but we as humans must be held to a higher standard than the animal kingdom for the sake of the entire world.



Not easily, especially with the vast pressures from our morally degraded society. However, with the properly aligned spiritual vertical any inflection of the flesh can be overcome. Our bodies are without a doubt, our own worst enemies.

You are contradicting yourself, a common habit in bigotry since there is no logic. First you say homosexuality is unnatural. When challenged you say well it's natural but not "right" with no definition of what is "right" except, I guess, what you say. You also don't answer my question; we may be able to abstain from sex but how do we abstain from feeling desire? Sexual desire is hard wired in our evolution (although you probably reject evolution). We cannot escape from feelings. Not sure what an "inflection" of the flesh is and absolutely disagree our bodies are our worst enemies. I guess that's why men have to put so much effort into controlling women's bodies. Because you really find us icky.

 

[Further]

Right now i do kind of feel like my body is my own worst enemy. Trying to lose weight but all I want is fatty salty food. I guess your talking something different. Oh, I could go for a slice of cheesecake right now.

 

[HailBlazers]

Right now i do kind of feel like my body is my own worst enemy. Trying to lose weight but all I want is fatty salty food. I guess your talking something different. Oh, I could go for a slice of cheesecake right now.

That's actually a perfect example. Our bodies are made up of appetites; for food, sex, pleasure, power, information, entertainment, etc. The more we feed on something, the more our body craves that something to the point of instinctual rhythm, second nature, damaging habit etc.

First you say homosexuality is unnatural. When challenged you say well it's natural but not "right" with no definition of what is "right" except, I guess, what you say.

Homosexual acts are un-natural (anal sex being the most glaring example), but they stem from a totally natural need for love/affection. My source for what's right comes from the most infallible book on human design in the history of man, the bible.

Sexual desire is hard wired in our evolution. We cannot escape from feelings.

Sure you cannot escape feelings, but you do have the free will to accept or reject them. That is life in a nutshell, reject your selfish feelings for the betterment of your fellow man. Death to Self.

Not sure what an "inflection" of the flesh is and absolutely disagree our bodies are our worst enemies.

Infliction* of the flesh is what I describe above, letting your bodies feelings, emotions, and desires run the show.

I guess that's why men have to put so much effort into controlling women's bodies. Because you really find us icky.

Icky? Women to men are like glorious mirages that we encounter in our walk through the desert of life. We try to control their bodies because they hold a tremendous power over us that you cannot understand as a woman.

 

[crandc]

God, your conflict comes from the fact that social evolution is so much faster than biological evolution. We evolved with a taste for calorie dense foods in an environment where food was often scarce so a liking for sugar and fat helped us build stores for the lean times sure to come. Our bodies have not changed, our society has, hence the difficulty of fighting obesity.

ABM and HailBlazers: This is one of the reasons I find religion so evil. It teaches self hate that so easily transforms into hate of The Other (gays, women). And of course, being a woman I am too stupid to understand women so have to have women mansplained to me.

Our bodies are not evil. Yes, we need to care for them. But it is good to enjoy good food (just don't overdo), dance, hike, stroke a cat, be warm and comfortable and have sex with an enthusiastically consenting partner. These are good things. Not evil things. The fact that other animals enjoy some of these things doesn't make them bad. Being connected with other species shows our common bond. We also need to use our brains, study history and science and literature of all cultures without someone deciding that something is "bad" for us, from Darwin to porn. My body, my brain, my choice.

I am reminded of some Catholic saints who slept on stone floors without a fire, lived on dry bread and water and never bathed so they were covered with lice and filth, and this was supposed to show their godliness. IMO it shows insanity.

Evil is hurting others. Funny no one asks if a murderer can be a Christian, just gays. Evil is torturing animals. Evil is cutting off food aid from hungry children in order to give millionaires another tax cut. Evil is polluting the earth. Evil is telling others they are inferior or unfit human beings.

Sexual love is not evil.

BTW, Indiana just passed a law making it a crime for any clergy to officiate at a same sex wedding. Funny how they claim women getting birth control violates THEIR religious freedom, but can tell Reform Jews, United Church of Christ, Society of Friends and dozens of other denominations whose marriage they can or cannot bless, under penalty of jail time.

 

[Further]

God, your conflict comes from the fact that social evolution is so much faster than biological evolution. We evolved with a taste for calorie dense foods in an environment where food was often scarce so a liking for sugar and fat helped us build stores for the lean times sure to come. Our bodies have not changed, our society has, hence the difficulty of fighting obesity.

You know I was just making a joke.

BTW, Indiana just passed a law making it a crime for any clergy to officiate at a same sex wedding. Funny how they claim women getting birth control violates THEIR religious freedom, but can tell Reform Jews, United Church of Christ, Society of Friends and dozens of other denominations whose marriage they can or cannot bless, under penalty of jail time.

Wow, didn't know that. What is the scuttlebutt about the legality of this? Does it look like it will be challenged?

 

[crandc]

Don't know about the Indiana law, it is so clearly unconstitutional. I imagine someone will challenge. Indiana does not legally recognize same sex marriage but many couples get married in their place of worship even if it has no legal standing, because it still has meaning to stand up before family, friends and congregation and take vows to one another.

I know all about sugar craving!

 

[HailBlazers]

ABM and HailBlazers: This is one of the reasons I find religion so evil. It teaches self hate that so easily transforms into hate of The Other (gays, women). And of course, being a woman I am too stupid to understand women so have to have women mansplained to me.

Many religions (and the people who lead them) do, including perverted forms of Christianity, but that is the work of the devil, not the holy trinity.

True Christianity, is unlike any religion in the entire world. It is not a works based, legalistic system. Your past, present, and future sins are already forgiven.

 

[tlongII]

God, your conflict comes from the fact that social evolution is so much faster than biological evolution. We evolved with a taste for calorie dense foods in an environment where food was often scarce so a liking for sugar and fat helped us build stores for the lean times sure to come. Our bodies have not changed, our society has, hence the difficulty of fighting obesity.

ABM and HailBlazers: This is one of the reasons I find religion so evil. It teaches self hate that so easily transforms into hate of The Other (gays, women). And of course, being a woman I am too stupid to understand women so have to have women mansplained to me.

Our bodies are not evil. Yes, we need to care for them. But it is good to enjoy good food (just don't overdo), dance, hike, stroke a cat, be warm and comfortable and have sex with an enthusiastically consenting partner. These are good things. Not evil things. The fact that other animals enjoy some of these things doesn't make them bad. Being connected with other species shows our common bond. We also need to use our brains, study history and science and literature of all cultures without someone deciding that something is "bad" for us, from Darwin to porn. My body, my brain, my choice.

I am reminded of some Catholic saints who slept on stone floors without a fire, lived on dry bread and water and never bathed so they were covered with lice and filth, and this was supposed to show their godliness. IMO it shows insanity.

Evil is hurting others. Funny no one asks if a murderer can be a Christian, just gays. Evil is torturing animals. Evil is cutting off food aid from hungry children in order to give millionaires another tax cut. Evil is polluting the earth. Evil is telling others they are inferior or unfit human beings.

Sexual love is not evil.

BTW, Indiana just passed a law making it a crime for any clergy to officiate at a same sex wedding. Funny how they claim women getting birth control violates THEIR religious freedom, but can tell Reform Jews, United Church of Christ, Society of Friends and dozens of other denominations whose marriage they can or cannot bless, under penalty of jail time.

Repped. Excellent post.

 

[MarAzul]

. Oops meat for crandc

Man this is so full of crap, Too much typing required to set it straight, so I will leave just one thought. Evil is bringing a child to this world that you can not or will not support.
It has nothing to do with a tax break.

Well maybe one more. Religion isn't there to teach hate (except perhaps Islam and the Infidel).
The Buddhist monks teach this probably the best although Jesus did a fair job. Religion is there for man to use, to help him live his life fully and help him avoid make his life hell. You need not wait for judgement day to find yourself in hell. The philosophy is for you, to improving your life not guide you in judging another. Use the teaching, don't let the fire an brimstone slingers distract you from accepting the help. The monks view works for Christians too, very well. I don't think Jesus would object at all.

 

[Further]

What is religion for, that's an easier question. It's not to teach hate, it's not here to help man live life fully. It's here because it has been an easy way for the powerful in society to control the masses. Some may find a better life or a way to hate, but it's here because people need to be ruled.

 

[MarAzul]

"You know that only the good die young"

Naw! It's usually the fools that go first.