Politics Can our Republican friends here please explain something...

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Foreign adversaries?

Wow, some of us are turning a country we are at peace with into an enemy for no good reason.

My mistake for assuming the opening post was an honest question.

Honest?

:lol:
 
1. The whole Russia narrative is completely overblown in my opinion. I think it's pretty clear that it had no effect on the election results.

2. National security is a concern. We can't let secret documents get in the hands of people that are not cleared to see them. However, I think that is a concern of the federal government as a whole and not specifically the Trump administration.

3. I don't give a rat's ass about infidelity. More than half of the marriages in the USA end up in divorce.


What I DO care about at this time is the economy. Trump has been doing a pretty good job in that area in my opinion.
 
1. The whole Russia narrative is completely overblown in my opinion. I think it's pretty clear that it had no effect on the election results.

2. National security is a concern. We can't let secret documents get in the hands of people that are not cleared to see them. However, I think that is a concern of the federal government as a whole and not specifically the Trump administration.

3. I don't give a rat's ass about infidelity. More than half of the marriages in the USA end up in divorce.


What I DO care about at this time is the economy. Trump has been doing a pretty good job in that area in my opinion.
That’s a good answer. I agree with some and disagree with some but it’s clear and answers the OP.
 
I may as well jump into this. I'm really more independent than Republican. I did change my registration to Republican last spring so that I could vote against Trump in the primaries. I've made no secret on this board of my distaste for the man. That said, here are my thoughts on the original three questions:

1. Russia: I think that Putin is absolutely laughing his ass off over the whole Russia brouhaha. Do I think that Trump's campaign actively colluded with Russia to try to sway the election? No. Do I think that political dirt could have been offered up from a Russian source that Trump's folks might have wanted to take a look at? Sure. I don't think that swaying the election's results was ever Putin's intent with the meddling thing anyway. I suspect that if Russia had really cared much about Hillary being elected, they have more than enough in their secret dossiers to have spilled some nice dirt (real or made up) on dozens of issues from the Clinton's political and personal record. I think that the real objective was simply to create as much political and social discord in America as possible. Left vs. right. Press vs. Trump. Race issues. Rich vs. poor. The more Russia can get us fighting and hating each other, the less energy and focus we have as a nation for international issues that Russia is really interested in. I think that they have been amazingly effective in getting these results.

2. Security: I think that Trump's choices of Washington outsiders have resulted in bringing in people who simply aren't used to dealing with and playing by Washington's rules. As far as overall security issues go, compared to the hacks that occurred under Obama's watch, Trump's issues are pretty small potatoes.

3. Infidelity: Did anyone, Melania included, think that he wasn't a serial philanderer? As reprehensible as I find that on a personal basis, it's pretty much a nothing burger when it comes to presidential issues. Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ, & Clinton all had affairs (or worse).

Trump is pretty much exactly what I thought he'd be. I think he's helped the economy. I think he's a lout. Can't wait for him to be gone.
 
No, none of the opening questions are a concern to me in the sense, that I do not need to know right now, what if any action is taking place.

What Mr. Trump did before he became President, that offends some, does not concern me.

The man is the Duly elected President, and so far, he appears to be handling the job well within the constraints of the Constitution.
I am willing to let the man do the job he was elect to do for us.
 
Wait, you do? I'm still trying to figure out what that means.

Thats easy. Make America great again means getting back to our communities and helping thy neighbor, and keeping work in America as much as possible, because We need employment. We need the economic improvement. We need our infrastructure improved.
 
Thats easy. Make America great again means getting back to our communities and helping thy neighbor, and keeping work in America as much as possible, because We need employment. We need the economic improvement. We need our infrastructure improved.
That's what it means?
 
That's what it means?
Thats what it means to me. I think alot of peopel use personal agendas to warp it. Some peopel think it means make America White again.

Im no fan of Trump, but he is no idiot. He knows this country was founded on the slave labor of other races. He doesnt mean that. He means lets get back to the fundamentals of how our country grew industrially.

Or so thats what I think.
 
The main reason i care about the infedelity, the porn stars, the pussy grabbing that he does, is because it is totally ignored by his bible thumping, good old boy Christian values base. It is so hypocritical and so blatant it is mind boggling. How on EARTH can the vast majority of his voters who claim to be Christian and all about Jesus and the Bible at the same time just brush off the pussy grabbing? It’s literally hilarious to me because they look so stupid.
 
Here in the OT, we mostly know where we all stand politically. My left leaning and dislike of Trump is no secret. So I get that I don't get some things about Trump. Please help me understand this: Doesn't all of the stuff you hear about him and his administration bother you? Are you simply willing to overlook these things just so a conservative agenda can be enacted?
In general, you'll only ever see me talking about policy or my opinions on it. I literally cannot criticize the President (and I generally take it back to "previous Presidents". I don't write much of what I think about WJ Clinton, GW Bush, Obama, or Trump personally. In general, I even avoid writing what I think about their agenda. For instance, I don't mind talking about the pro-business aspects of the new Tax law, or how I fare under the ACA. But I won't say something like "Thank the Lord Obama is smart enough to pass the ACA" or "Our dear new Leader is Making America Great!" (Other than pointing out that I didn't vote for either).

Specifically I am asking about
Russia: Just yesterday the head of the NSA says he has not been told to try to shutdown future Russian hacking. And the sanctions passed by Congress have not been enacted by the President. And his National Security Advisor has plead guilty to a felony. Etc. His pandering to Russian interests is so obvious to me. Not you?
Not me, no. In the abstract, America is supposed to be strong enough to fend off attacks on us, diplomatically, informationally/intelligence-wise, militarily or economically (DIME). The fact that our media sources (mainstream or not) have by-and-large been co-opted into providing their own agenda is neither a novel occurrence nor one that hasn't been exploited to disastrous results. Without going into security matters, there have been many countries, peers and competitors, who have done one or more "acts of war" in attempts to destabilize our economy, turn popular opinion/add propaganda, weaken our military or weaken our alliances. When they fail, we generally don't do a whole lot (write your congressman if you aren't cool with that, not me. :) ).
For Russian "pandering" in general, I'd say that if you look to Putin's actions (now that I can talk about his nuclear weapons) in the wake of how he doesn't like what Trump is doing, you'd see that he doesn't pander to everything. I think you'd find that he generally (rightly or wrongly) puts the American economy first in much of his decision-making, whether it's tariffs, opening up new oil wells, new tax laws, different health care, selling off national park land, etc. You can absolutely say you disagree with him doing so, but I don't think you can say that he's constantly pandering to Russian interests.
Is it just that it's Russia that you think it's inappropriate to pander to? Or Gulf States? Or EU nations? Or China? Without going into a "Obama/Bush/Clinton did it!11!" realm, I'd say that we've bent over backwards to a lot of countries in the last two decades that I don't agree with, in many different (sometimes unilateral) actions (between granting MFN status, honoring disputed agreements, paying off hostage takers, negotiating with terrorists, paying off corrupt politicians, upending elections, etc), in the name of "national interests" that we plebians haven't been deigned smart enough to fathom. I don't know why with Trump it's a firestorm issue, other than the polarization around Hillary's loss (I don't want to say "Trump's win", b/c I think that if Rubio or Huckabee or Bush would've beaten her there would be similar aspects fueled by the losing party, who went all-in for her).

Security: You were the ones crying about the lack of security of Hillary's emails. Does it not bother you that Trump's staff cannot pass background checks?
The "lack of security" of Hillary's emails is about the 1977th-reason for me not to vote for her. I put much more into her pathological need to make herself look better while still doing all the dirty things to get ahead, and in thinking that rules don't apply to her. The "lack of security" of Hillary's emails was only the reasoning put forward for the questions of "why is it wrong to do what she did?" "Because it's illegal." "Why?" "Because we have rules in place to prevent security issues, like non-cleared personnel getting access to material classified such that 'release of such material would cause "exceptionally grave damage" to national security if made publicly available'."
What I find interesting (if I could answer a question with a question) is this: If Trump (or anyone else) somehow did something illegal with illegal people to illegally make it so that the rightful winner of the Presidential election didn't win, wouldn't that be something that caused "grave (for Top Secret)" or "serious (for Secret)" damage to the US? All because Hillary thought that she was above the rules and was grossly negligent extremely careless with her information security?

Infidelity: Two affairs - one with a porn star and one with a Playboy Bunny - in just the past few years. To quote the King of Siam: "Etc., etc., etc."
While I think those are both "alleged" at this point (I literally hadn't heard about a Playboy Bunny and the porn star is something that, if it did happen, happened a decade before he ran for President), I've long since given up on looking to the President for moral advice. The President of the United States ceased to be "the Greatest Man in America" about the time of Washington. As someone pointed out above, if infidelity, broken marriages and offenses against God were barriers to political entry, there would be a lot fewer candidates. I'm not looking to my President for what goes on in his or her bedroom. I'm looking to my President to act in the best interests of the country, not his- or herself.

This probably didn't answer everything the way you wanted, but one man's opinion on your questions. :dunno:
 
The main reason i care about the infedelity, the porn stars, the pussy grabbing that he does, is because it is totally ignored by his bible thumping, good old boy Christian values base. It is so hypocritical and so blatant it is mind boggling. How on EARTH can the vast majority of his voters who claim to be Christian and all about Jesus and the Bible at the same time just brush off the pussy grabbing? It’s literally hilarious to me because they look so stupid.
As what one might call a "bible thumper", I literally don't care about locker room talk because I've seen much worse and, afaik, no one (including the entire #metoo movement) has been able to show he's done anything untoward to a woman. In 50 years of messing around. Everyone who's been paid to come forward has had their story debunked. You'd think that, if there was, it would've been used against him before now. As I said above, I first of all don't look to politicians for moral and spiritual guidance in the bedroom. I'm much more intrigued by his or her overall character. (One of the reasons neither Trump nor Hillary got my vote). But accepting that our President is who he is and, if not supporting him, not working to remove him (a much tougher battle in the last 8 years among bible thumpers than now, I'd surmise) is kind of what we read about when we thump our bibles.
 
As what one might call a "bible thumper", I literally don't care about locker room talk because I've seen much worse and, afaik, no one (including the entire #metoo movement) has been able to show he's done anything untoward to a woman. In 50 years of messing around. Everyone who's been paid to come forward has had their story debunked. You'd think that, if there was, it would've been used against him before now. As I said above, I first of all don't look to politicians for moral and spiritual guidance in the bedroom. I'm much more intrigued by his or her overall character. (One of the reasons neither Trump nor Hillary got my vote). But accepting that our President is who he is and, if not supporting him, not working to remove him (a much tougher battle in the last 8 years among bible thumpers than now, I'd surmise) is kind of what we read about when we thump our bibles.

Sorry. It’s utterly impossible, hypocritical and ludicrous to support a man who says what he has said- not hearsay but words that we have heard, who has had extramarital affairs (if you don’t think he has had them you’re in denial), and also tout your “Christian values”. I’m all for it (I went to catholic school growing up and a catholic college) but don’t think you’re fooling anyone. (When I say you I don’t mean you specifically just in general btw.) I cannot stand hypocrites. it’s like driving a Prius and then being anti recycling. How is that even possible
 
Sorry. It’s utterly impossible, hypocritical and ludicrous to support a man who says what he has said- not hearsay but words that we have heard, who has had extramarital affairs (if you don’t think he has had them you’re in denial), and also tout your “Christian values”. I’m all for it (I went to catholic school growing up and a catholic college) but don’t think you’re fooling anyone. (When I say you I don’t mean you specifically just in general btw.) I cannot stand hypocrites. it’s like driving a Prius and then being anti recycling. How is that even possible
Oh.... my..... god.....

You hate yourself?
 
Sorry. It’s utterly impossible, hypocritical and ludicrous to support a man who says what he has said- not hearsay but words that we have heard, who has had extramarital affairs (if you don’t think he has had them you’re in denial), and also tout your “Christian values”. I’m all for it (I went to catholic school growing up and a catholic college) but don’t think you’re fooling anyone. (When I say you I don’t mean you specifically just in general btw.) I cannot stand hypocrites. it’s like driving a Prius and then being anti recycling. How is that even possible
No specific offense taken. I understand. And I didn't say he didn't have affairs (in fact, I think I have stated that in other threads), but I still can't (and I don't think anyone can, or else they would've) pinned anything criminal on him.

However, if your postulation is that, as a "bible thumper" I can't support a President who has affairs without being a hypocrite, how can I support a President who, say, smokes pot? Or is divorced? Or who attends a church run by a racist pastor of questionable theological background? Or openly believes in what I would term heretical theological stances? And if all those make me a hypocrite, why should I care if affairs make a difference? Was I supposed to set the White House on fire when Bill came all over the face and dress of an intern in the Oval Office? And got impeached not for doing it, but for lying about it under oath? And still got to sign orders sending people to their death in Kosovo?
 
No specific offense taken. I understand. And I didn't say he didn't have affairs (in fact, I think I have stated that in other threads), but I still can't (and I don't think anyone can, or else they would've) pinned anything criminal on him.

However, if your postulation is that, as a "bible thumper" I can't support a President who has affairs without being a hypocrite, how can I support a President who, say, smokes pot? Or is divorced? Or who attends a church run by a racist pastor of questionable theological background? Or openly believes in what I would term heretical theological stances? And if all those make me a hypocrite, why should I care if affairs make a difference? Was I supposed to set the White House on fire when Bill came all over the face and dress of an intern in the Oval Office? And got impeached not for doing it, but for lying about it under oath? And still got to sign orders sending people to their death in Kosovo?

No. Clinton sucks. Both bill and hills. Your options are limited. But selectively choosing what one ignores and what one doesn’t is telling to me, and people lose all credibility when they preach “abortions are terrible!”, then at the same time yank these little non aborted babies healthcare. Fucking pick a lane. (Again not you)
 
The main reason i care about the infedelity, the porn stars, the pussy grabbing that he does, is because it is totally ignored by his bible thumping, good old boy Christian values base. It is so hypocritical and so blatant it is mind boggling. How on EARTH can the vast majority of his voters who claim to be Christian and all about Jesus and the Bible at the same time just brush off the pussy grabbing? It’s literally hilarious to me because they look so stupid.
Because most Christians believe he can be forgiven for pretty much everything? I was told that a serial killer could repent on his deathbed and be sent to heaven but the nicest guy on Earth would go to hell if he doesn't believe
 
I think one issue might be the selective self-association as a Christian when it helps out one's cause. I might, as a professing bible thumper, believe that there is no good reason to abort a child. I might, as a voter, understand if a budget is passed that does a whole bunch of things (namely, pay the families of military members at war overseas) and that includes the parts I don't like, but my reps negotiated into (like not paying for some healthcare buy still paying Planned Parenthood reimbursements, allowing them to spend $20M in mid-term 2018 lobbying--about 3M less than the entire NRA spent from 1989-2016). I might dislike shooting my (global) neighbor, but I understand that that sometimes has to be done to protect others. A firm pro-lifer from KY might like that coal subsidies go up on the same bill where abortion factories are supplemented. A military officer might get a bigger paycheck this year but hate that it took a 1T budget deficit to do so. Hypocrisy brought up only when it deals with sexual sin seems short-sighted.
I should also be clear that I question no one's faith or salvation. That's between them and God. A member of my church, who's placed themselves under the authority of our pastors and elders in matters of faith, and who's eaten under my roof and prayed with me, is much more important to me than a politician. For all I know Trump repented of his infidelity years ago and has thrice-daily prayer sessions. :dunno: The Office of the President is just that, an office. We bible thumpers have been taught that authorities on earth have been placed there by Heaven, for whatever reason. That's for another topic. We bible thumpers are called to support him. We military bible thumpers doubly so.
 
Because most Christians believe he can be forgiven for pretty much everything? I was told that a serial killer could repent on his deathbed and be sent to heaven but the nicest guy on Earth would go to hell if he doesn't believe
Biblically, your second statement is accurate.
 
Thought so, then Trump can be forgiven with a clean conscience. Seems pretty simple for the religious right to choose him
Again, the forgiveness (or not) is not mine to give. And that doesn't mean that "bad things" can't come from that sin. As far as I know, he hasn't publicly repented of his affairs or divorces. :dunno:
 
Again, the forgiveness (or not) is not mine to give. And that doesn't mean that "bad things" can't come from that sin. As far as I know, he hasn't publicly repented of his affairs or divorces. :dunno:
No I know you don't get to admit him to heaven. Religion teaches to forgive though so religious people can vote for him and not be hypocrites
 
Honestly I’m fine going back and forth about guns, the Blazers, pretty much anything but once it gets to repenting and forgiveness and all that I have to bow out. This is a lose lose sitstuon.
 
Honestly I’m fine going back and forth about guns, the Blazers, pretty much anything but once it gets to repenting and forgiveness and all that I have to bow out. This is a lose lose sitstuon.
I'm not wanting to debate religion. Just pointing out that hypocrisy is hard to pin on them. It is faith, not science.
 
Thats what it means to me. I think alot of peopel use personal agendas to warp it. Some peopel think it means make America White again.

Im no fan of Trump, but he is no idiot. He knows this country was founded on the slave labor of other races. He doesnt mean that. He means lets get back to the fundamentals of how our country grew industrially.

Or so thats what I think.
Huh. Ok.
 

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