Politics Can our Republican friends here please explain something...

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We bible thumpers have been taught that authorities on earth have been placed there by Heaven, for whatever reason. That's for another topic. We bible thumpers are called to support him.

Well, that might be another topic, but it's a damn interesting one - at least not one that I'd ever heard expressed before (possibly only because of my lack of thumping background).

Place there by Heaven for whatever reason, sure. I get that part. But support for that reason??? So... you'd support Hitler?

barfo
 
Well, that might be another topic, but it's a damn interesting one - at least not one that I'd ever heard expressed before (possibly only because of my lack of thumping background).
Place there by Heaven for whatever reason, sure. I get that part. But support for that reason??? So... you'd support Hitler?
barfo
In general, the submission to authorities comes from Romans 13:1-7 (Remember, Romans was written during the time of Nero and the persecution of Christians). Less clear, though still prevalent, is the concept from Acts 5:29-39 that discusses that the duty of the Christian is to follow the laws of God if men pervert the government to evil. There may be (are) consequences, up to and including martyrdom, but them's the basics.

There's much more to it than that, but if Trump started, I don't know, rounding up legal citizens, taking their property through eminent domain and then killing them by the millions, I'd probably not be cool with that.
 
In general, the submission to authorities comes from Romans 13:1-7 (Remember, Romans was written during the time of Nero and the persecution of Christians). Less clear, though still prevalent, is the concept from Acts 5:29-39 that discusses that the duty of the Christian is to follow the laws of God if men pervert the government to evil. There may be (are) consequences, up to and including martyrdom, but them's the basics.

There's much more to it than that, but if Trump started, I don't know, rounding up legal citizens, taking their property through eminent domain and then killing them by the millions, I'd probably not be cool with that.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. He did say he was ok with rounding up your guns yesterday, and as you know that's the first step.

barfo
 
Ok, thanks for clarifying. He did say he was ok with rounding up your guns yesterday, and as you know that's the first step.

barfo

Ah now barf! I hate to correct a man, but you know that isn't really truthful.
 
I'll let Trump explain it...

"I never heard anything about it. No collusion. Maybe Russia knew, maybe China. China isn't abiding by anything. They're buying all of our coal, we can't use coal any more essentially. They're buying our coal and they're using it. Now when you talk about the planet, it's so big out there, we're here, they're there. It's like they're our next door neighbor, right? In terms of the universe. Miss Universe, by the way, made a great deal when I sold it, oh did I get rich. It was a great deal. Uhh you know they broke my choppers on that. They said, "he talks about illegal immigration, we're not going to put him on television." First of all, the univision's big, sued like crazy, like you wouldn't believe. And NBC, I made a great deal with them, just like an amazing deal."

The nonsensical drivel of a madman.
 
Another bullet point I don’t get:

- there are three people left from his original cabinet - his daughter, his son in law, and his PR guy. Everyone else fired or quit. Does this seem strange or a red flag?

Red flag
 
From what I've observed of Trump, "Make America Great Again" means to get the economy back to how it was in the 50s and 60s.

Unemployment was low and jobs were good. The world was recovering from WW II and the US was effectively the only manufacturing powerhouse. Our factories weren't bombed to rubble in the war. The American dream of owning a home and a car and ability to raise a family and succeed was real.

The public school system was modern(ized) and excellent. Our kids graduated and went to college or at least left school with a skill to earn a living for life. The schools featured music and art as well as football. Our college graduates were the elite high level workers of the world - now we have to import a lot of those workers from other countries (Silicon Valley, for example, is dominated by immigrants from India, at the highest levels of the companies).

We used to make radios and TVs and washing machines and so on. Our steel industry built our cities and bridges, but now we're buying steel from overseas. Our auto companies dominated, at least in the US. Our unions were strong, too.

Trump's every economic move makes my assessment look more and more correct.

Some people are focused on consensual relations between the man and a playboy centerfold while he's being quite effective at getting his agenda done.

A lot of his agenda I don't agree with (immigration, tariffs, deficit spending, etc.). But it is coherent and focused like a laser beam.

Like I said, some people are focused on what are ultimately silly things.

Trump came into office as an outsider. He ran against the republican establishment almost as much as he did against the democrats. He didn't have a ready to go staff of people to come in and start governing. Reagan, for example, had his people from his time as governor of California. Bill Clinton (who I actually liked as president) had his people from his time as governor of Arkansas. Trump's people are his family and business associates. It's not surprising he's had to go through a bunch of people to find ones that help him govern.
 
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There's much more to it than that, but if Trump started, I don't know, rounding up legal citizens, taking their property through eminent domain and then killing them by the millions, I'd probably not be cool with that.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. He did say he was ok with rounding up your guns yesterday, and as you know that's the first step.

barfo

Ah now barf! I hate to correct a man, but you know that isn't really truthful.

Yes - I do know that gun control is not the first step to the government killing millions of citizens. I was saying that as a bit of a joke.

barfo
 
From what I've observed of Trump, "Make America Great Again" means to get the economy back to how it was in the 50s and 60s.

Unemployment was low and jobs were good. The world was recovering from WW II and the US was effectively the only manufacturing powerhouse. Our factories weren't bombed to rubble in the war. The American dream of owning a home and a car and ability to raise a family and succeed was real.

The public school system was modern(ized) and excellent. Our kids graduated and went to college or at least left school with a skill to earn a living for life. The schools featured music and art as well as football. Our college graduates were the elite high level workers of the world - now we have to import a lot of those workers from other countries (Silicon Valley, for example, is dominated by immigrants from India, at the highest levels of the companies).

We used to make radios and TVs and washing machines and so on. Our steel industry built our cities and bridges, but now we're buying steel from overseas. Our auto companies dominated, at least in the US. Our unions were strong, too.

Trump's every economic move makes my assessment look more and more correct.

Some people are focused on consensual relations between the man and a playboy centerfold while he's being quite effective at getting his agenda done.

A lot of his agenda I don't agree with (immigration, tariffs, deficit spending, etc.). But it is coherent and focused like a laser beam.

Like I said, some people are focused on what are ultimately silly things.

Trump came into office as an outsider. He ran against the republican establishment almost as much as he did against the democrats. He didn't have a ready to go staff of people to come in and start governing. Reagan, for example, had his people from his time as governor of California. Bill Clinton (who I actually liked as president) had his people from his time as governor of Arkansas. Trump's people are his family and business associates. It's not surprising he's had to go through a bunch of people to find ones that help him govern.

Family, friends, and super model Hope Hicks. Totally made sense to hire her.
 
Want an honest answer from someone who is partisan?

I lean liberal republican, but I dont let it dictate my party. I vote individual for who I feel is best at the time of voting and dont pair the party line.

With that said, Every administration has the other side gunning for them to take them down. This means that lots of fluff stories come out trying to defame the sitting president. Whether it be Bush, Obama, Trump, etc.

What you are hearing about Trump is not that much different than what I heard about Hilary and what I heard about Bush and what I heard about Carter, etc.

I take most of it with a grain of salt because most of it is a Hollywood drama fest. I focus on numbers not hearsay drama.

Currently the numbers show Trump is doing great on the domestic economy, but my fear is the global economy will suffer and further segregate America form the rest of the world.

I get make America great again, but we also need to compromise with the rest of the world we left behind by stomping on them for the last few hundred years.


Again....Shove the drama aside and focus on the important numbers like tariffs and taxes, etc. These are the direct impacting decision making he has power of that will actually affect you and I. The rest of it is for the news to argue about cause it doesnt affect me.
I line up with your position a lot.
The press/ media are capitalizing on frenzy products (messages) to justify their existence. They no longer report news. Thats why the commie pinko's are meddling, because are society it seems, like to be meddled with!
I cannot understand how any individual, family, company or government doesn't want to be fiscally responsible.
Most all politicians are bought by lobbyist. Its kind of nice having a Pres that's not beholden to lobbyist, that the way id always like it.
Im always for measuring ones performance left or right by their objective results and how the get things done. This is where i have problems with politicians.
A good businessMAN know's what gets measured gets done and if he doesnt know where he's going he'll end up somewhere else.

For me small government and more capitalism and less media! Except this one!
 
The main reason i care about the infedelity, the porn stars, the pussy grabbing that he does, is because it is totally ignored by his bible thumping, good old boy Christian values base. It is so hypocritical and so blatant it is mind boggling. How on EARTH can the vast majority of his voters who claim to be Christian and all about Jesus and the Bible at the same time just brush off the pussy grabbing? It’s literally hilarious to me because they look so stupid.

Well I can't speak to that because I'm not Republican and I'm not a Christian. I'm registered as an Independent and I'm basically agnostic leaning towards atheist.
 
Pretty sure this Calvin person is a dvis
It’s so unbelievably easy, not hard, for me to see the hypocrisy so that’s why this is a complete waste of time
I think you understand how I feel about another subject now :cheers:
 
From what I've observed of Trump, "Make America Great Again" means to get the economy back to how it was in the 50s and 60s.

Unemployment was low and jobs were good. The world was recovering from WW II and the US was effectively the only manufacturing powerhouse. Our factories weren't bombed to rubble in the war. The American dream of owning a home and a car and ability to raise a family and succeed was real.

The public school system was modern(ized) and excellent. Our kids graduated and went to college or at least left school with a skill to earn a living for life. The schools featured music and art as well as football. Our college graduates were the elite high level workers of the world - now we have to import a lot of those workers from other countries (Silicon Valley, for example, is dominated by immigrants from India, at the highest levels of the companies).

We used to make radios and TVs and washing machines and so on. Our steel industry built our cities and bridges, but now we're buying steel from overseas. Our auto companies dominated, at least in the US. Our unions were strong, too.

Trump's every economic move makes my assessment look more and more correct.

Some people are focused on consensual relations between the man and a playboy centerfold while he's being quite effective at getting his agenda done.

A lot of his agenda I don't agree with (immigration, tariffs, deficit spending, etc.). But it is coherent and focused like a laser beam.

Like I said, some people are focused on what are ultimately silly things.

Trump came into office as an outsider. He ran against the republican establishment almost as much as he did against the democrats. He didn't have a ready to go staff of people to come in and start governing. Reagan, for example, had his people from his time as governor of California. Bill Clinton (who I actually liked as president) had his people from his time as governor of Arkansas. Trump's people are his family and business associates. It's not surprising he's had to go through a bunch of people to find ones that help him govern.
So what happened to us? Back when life was so good for us, the rest of the world was a shambles. We had no competition and the rest of the shattered world was our customers. The rest of the world “healed” (admittedly with a generous amount of assistance from us). While the rest of the world was catching up, we sat back on our laurels, fat, dumb and happy. Our former enemies evolved from being our customers to being our competition. When we finally got our heads out of our asses, we chose to try and catch up, not by rethinking and retooling, but by cutting corners, usually on quality. Which led us to fall even farther behind. Our arrogance bit us in the ass big time, because we thought we were smarter than other countries. Instead of focusing on making the “American Dream” better and better, we got so focused of fattening our own wallets, things like those wonderful schools and the rest of the infrastructure got neglected. We passed the problems on to future generations because we didn’t (and still don’t) want to pay for it (even though we’ve never had any problems funding wars that help promote our reputation as the world’s Alpha Dog). And that is what is still holding us back, only we’re getting more arrogant and self centered as we fall even farther behind. Donald Trump is our avatar. A symbol of just what we have allowed ourselves to become. Maybe that’s not fair, but he’s the one who volunteered for the job......
 
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Donald Trump is our avatar. A symbol of just what we have allowed ourselves to become.

If I may, I will jump in here.
You paint the picture spot on UCD, just as you say. We, were without competitor for about 20 years and the even with some competition, still in the game.
Now it is a new game we need to get our asses in gear and our heads in the new game.

Now here is where your and my views are polar opposite.

Donald Trump is our avatar. The best we had available that could get elected out of the most recent crop of contenders. We choose, and he is it!
We best run with it and get back in the game or the future is very grim.
 
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So what happened to us? Back when life was so good for us, the rest of the world was a shambles. We had no competition and the rest of the shattered world was our customers. The rest of the world “healed” (admittedly with a generous amount of assistance from us). While the rest of the world was catching up, we sat back on our laurels, fat, dumb and happy. Our former enemies evolved from being our customers to being our competition. When we finally got our heads out of our asses, we chose to try and catch up, not by rethinking and retooling, but by cutting corners, usually on quality. Which led us to fall even farther behind. Our arrogance bit us in the ass big time, because we thought we were smarter than other countries. Instead of focusing on making the “American Dream” better and better, we got so focused of fattening our own wallets, things like those wonderful schools and the rest of the infrastructure got neglected. We passed the problems on to future generations because we didn’t (and still don’t) want to pay for it (even though we’ve never had any problems funding wars that help promote our reputation as the world’s Alpha Dog). And that is what is still holding us back, only we’re getting more arrogant and self centered as we fall even farther behind. Donald Trump is our avatar. A symbol of just what we have allowed ourselves to become. Maybe that’s not fair, but he’s the one who volunteered for the job......

What happened is we had wars in Korea and Vietnam. In order to keep our supply lines short, we had spare parts and other gear built in Japan. That was a lot of our government money going to build up Japan's manufacturing. After a while, Japan was kicking our ass - they were buying movie studios and skyscrapers, here in the USA, in the 1980s, and their corporations dwarfed our largest.

What also happened is we have been generous in rebuilding Japan's and Germany's (among others, see Marshall Act) factories. They were newer than ours, more modern. At our expense.

We're also generous in how we give away money to other countries. $billions to Egypt and Israel, yearly. Foreign aid of all kinds to assorted countries. Money that could build infrastructure here but isn't.

We also made China MFN and shipped our manufacturing to their slave wage sweat shops. Our trade deficit with China alone is near $500B, if not more.

Other countries dump product in ours. We used to make steal. Then we were shipping our junk metal to Japan where they recycled it all and sold it back to us.

Other countries apply other unfair trade practices. Our private companies like Boeing are hurt by European governments subsidizing AirBus, for example.

We also made a number of trade deals that seem to have hurt. Our companies move manufacturing to Mexico because we incentivize them to do so. If you actually listen to Trump, he says those deals are bad and that we got a much worse deal than our partners. I think there's some merit to that, but I also think there's reasons it is OK to be helping other nations.

Our government cannot control its spending. In order to pay for what it cannot afford, the government borrows money from China (and other countries). We spend it on food stamps, which literally turns to shit. They end up holding bonds that the US pays interest on, and pays back the principal, too. We're taxing ourselves and sending $400B+ in interest payments to the Chinese.
 
I didn’t blame Clinton. I just pointed out your hypocrisy.

You set the precedents. You have to live with them.
So if we tell you we like to jump off cliffs...?

Good to know that those on the right will only jump as high as those on the left tell them to. No "holier than thou" here.
 
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.

Donald Trump is our avatar. The best we had available that could get elected out of the most recent crop of contenders. We choose, and he is it!
We best run with it and get back in the game or the future is very grim.

Utter hilarity.
 
From what I've observed of Trump, "Make America Great Again" means to get the economy back to how it was in the 50s and 60s.
So back when you could buy a new car for 1000 bucks and rent a house for 80 bucks a month...I remember those days......cost 25 cents to go to a movie...people got 3 bucks an hour...gas 19 cents a gallon..cup of coffee...a thin dime..doctors made house calls
 
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So back when you could buy a new car for 1000 bucks and rent a house for 80 bucks a month...I remember those days......cost 25 cents to go to a movie...people got 3 bucks an hour...gas 19 cents a gallon..cup of coffee...a thin dime
Your favorite era! The good ol days. Pre-1965

The current era is the saddest state youve seen America in right?
 
What happened is we had wars in Korea and Vietnam. In order to keep our supply lines short, we had spare parts and other gear built in Japan. That was a lot of our government money going to build up Japan's manufacturing. After a while, Japan was kicking our ass - they were buying movie studios and skyscrapers, here in the USA, in the 1980s, and their corporations dwarfed our largest.

What also happened is we have been generous in rebuilding Japan's and Germany's (among others, see Marshall Act) factories. They were newer than ours, more modern. At our expense.

We're also generous in how we give away money to other countries. $billions to Egypt and Israel, yearly. Foreign aid of all kinds to assorted countries. Money that could build infrastructure here but isn't.

We also made China MFN and shipped our manufacturing to their slave wage sweat shops. Our trade deficit with China alone is near $500B, if not more.

Other countries dump product in ours. We used to make steal. Then we were shipping our junk metal to Japan where they recycled it all and sold it back to us.

Other countries apply other unfair trade practices. Our private companies like Boeing are hurt by European governments subsidizing AirBus, for example.

We also made a number of trade deals that seem to have hurt. Our companies move manufacturing to Mexico because we incentivize them to do so. If you actually listen to Trump, he says those deals are bad and that we got a much worse deal than our partners. I think there's some merit to that, but I also think there's reasons it is OK to be helping other nations.

Our government cannot control its spending. In order to pay for what it cannot afford, the government borrows money from China (and other countries). We spend it on food stamps, which literally turns to shit. They end up holding bonds that the US pays interest on, and pays back the principal, too. We're taxing ourselves and sending $400B+ in interest payments to the Chinese.
Uhhh.....what I said in a more condensed form.......bottom line is, either way we screwed ourselves.
 
From what I've observed of Trump, "Make America Great Again" means to get the economy back to how it was in the 50s and 60s.

Unemployment was low and jobs were good. The world was recovering from WW II and the US was effectively the only manufacturing powerhouse. Our factories weren't bombed to rubble in the war. The American dream of owning a home and a car and ability to raise a family and succeed was real.

The public school system was modern(ized) and excellent. Our kids graduated and went to college or at least left school with a skill to earn a living for life. The schools featured music and art as well as football. Our college graduates were the elite high level workers of the world - now we have to import a lot of those workers from other countries (Silicon Valley, for example, is dominated by immigrants from India, at the highest levels of the companies).

We used to make radios and TVs and washing machines and so on. Our steel industry built our cities and bridges, but now we're buying steel from overseas. Our auto companies dominated, at least in the US. Our unions were strong, too.

Trump's every economic move makes my assessment look more and more correct.

Some people are focused on consensual relations between the man and a playboy centerfold while he's being quite effective at getting his agenda done.

A lot of his agenda I don't agree with (immigration, tariffs, deficit spending, etc.). But it is coherent and focused like a laser beam.

Like I said, some people are focused on what are ultimately silly things.

Trump came into office as an outsider. He ran against the republican establishment almost as much as he did against the democrats. He didn't have a ready to go staff of people to come in and start governing. Reagan, for example, had his people from his time as governor of California. Bill Clinton (who I actually liked as president) had his people from his time as governor of Arkansas. Trump's people are his family and business associates. It's not surprising he's had to go through a bunch of people to find ones that help him govern.
US Steel manufacturing here in the homeland is not just owned by American Corporations...Germany owns steel plants here as do India, Taiwan, Japan, Mexico, Brazil, etc.....made in USA isn't necessarily owned by USA......
 
So back when you could buy a new car for 1000 bucks and rent a house for 80 bucks a month...I remember those days......cost 25 cents to go to a movie...people got 3 bucks an hour...gas 19 cents a gallon..cup of coffee...a thin dime..doctors made house calls
So, awesome?

Don't care how much people made an hour in gross dollars. That's much better actual spending power than people have now if your numbers are right.
 
So, awesome?

Don't care how much people made an hour in gross dollars. That's much better actual spending power than people have now if your numbers are right.
cost of living does not match wages ....hasn't for a long time..my point is you can't compare industrial age stats with this era of global technology...also WW2 helped the economy by unfortunately killing off a whole lot of soldiers not returning to compete in the job market....I was born in the 1950s...some things were better ...some ..not so much. Women just entered the workforce during the war en masse...these eras of history will never duplicate each other...the world is way more complex now. Industrial age prosperity was started in England and imported here after the war in many cases. England was a complete mess in the 1950s.....we didn't have rubble to deal with but Japan and Germany surged with modernization while we were oiling rusty gears stateside. There were also just a handful of JP Morgans and Andrew Carnegies and Rockefellers who owned pretty much all the energy and transportation monopolies without competition...JP Morgan even bought a president....I doubt many americans from rural or poor urban neighborhoods would want to revisit those days anytime soon...native americans were in horrible conditions in the 1950s ..
 
I should add that we did have a great migration of European and Asian immigrants after WW2 as well....lot of scientists, craftsmen, composers, writers, engineers, teachers ...after the war people who could made their way here and we benefited from their brilliance....still do.
 

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