Politics Can Pete Buttigieg beat Trump? (1 Viewer)

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He had trouble in debate when challenged by other Democrats who didn't scream, lie, insult or call names. The occupant of the white house will do all of those, can he hold his own?
 
Lanny said:
Pete is my preferred candidate.
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Mine too, but I'm not bothered by having anybody having laugh at his expense. Hopefully he'll have the last laugh.

barfo
 
Still don't accept why some think just because someone is very rich, that arbitrarily makes them a bad choice for POTUS.
 
yankeesince59 said:
Still don't accept why some think just because someone is very rich, that arbitrarily makes them a bad choice for POTUS.
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In this case it has more to do with the precedent of buying elections than it does the specific person. Bloomberg isn't all that bad in general.
 
barfo said:
Mine too, but I'm not bothered by having anybody having laugh at his expense. Hopefully he'll have the last laugh.

barfo
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I like Pete also. A Pete / Amy coalition would be cool. Im not counting Joe out just yet as super Tuesday could rejuvenate the old guy!
 
We need change. We need a drastic shifting of mindset and an empowerment of the people. We also need someone who is well versed in the politics of DC who can cut through the bullshit to push progressive agendas to move the country forward.

That ain't Pete. Dude can't even win his own state.

I want Bernie/Yang. That needs to be the ticket.
 
Stevenson said:
I do think that if Bernie had never labeled himself a Socialist, he would run away with the whole thing and beat Trump fairly easily. His economic program would likely benefit and resonate with those folks in the Midwest who switched parties and voted for Trump.

But in this country, the S tag would be fatal. Hell, if the Republicans could turn a war hero like John Kerry into a swift boating draft dodger, imagine what they would do to Bernie the Socialist.

#Bloomberg2020 is where I think I am headed!
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The socialist tag is such a farce. He's not a commie for Godsakes just because he wants people to be able to pay for healthcare and students to have education opportunities without breaking the bank.
 
donkiez said:
In this case it has more to do with the precedent of buying elections than it does the specific person. Bloomberg isn't all that bad in general.
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Some of our most famous/best Presidents were VERY rich...but yeah, I don't see wealth as necessarily a detriment.
 
illmatic99 said:
Why?

He's barely a democrat.
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Barely a democrat? That seems like an odd thing to say. What positions does he have that you think are outside the party tent?

barfo
 
illmatic99 said:
Why?

He's barely a democrat.
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Democrats like to bash Trump and his swamp, yet don't seem to be able to see the swamp monsters lurking in their own party.

The last democrat elected to office was Jimmy Carter, we have had nothing but republicans since. Both Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama were moderate republicans. Obama even says he was.

Every president beyond Jimmy Carter sold America out to corporations and their billionaire donors. It's time to stop the corruption, 40 years of it is destroying America.
 
barfo said:
Barely a democrat? That seems like an odd thing to say. What positions does he have that you think are outside the party tent?

barfo
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His core tenets are reducing deficits and government spending for education/healthcare. I exaggerated a bit, but as someone who is desperately awaiting a drastic change, I don't feel like he's going to bring it.

The key to a dem victory in November is increasing voter turnout, and he has done absolutely nothing to inspire the youth or minorities to take interest. His moderation policies will win no ex-Trump votes in the general.
 
Healthcare is the #1 concern amongst the working class, which is the biggest demographic in the country. Poll after poll, time after time. Sanders is the only one addressing it in a straightforward way, all the others flip flop and produce caveats, excuses and disclaimers. It shouldn’t be any surprise Bernie is leading.
 
illmatic99 said:
His core tenets are reducing deficits and government spending for education/healthcare.
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I don't think that's at all accurate, unless you left out a comma after 'deficits'.

I exaggerated a bit, but as someone who is desperately awaiting a drastic change, I don't feel like he's going to bring it.
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That is certainly fair. He's not an advocate for drastic change.

The key to a dem victory in November is increasing voter turnout, and he has done absolutely nothing to inspire the youth or minorities to take interest.
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That is one theory of the election - turn out the base, because swing voters don't really exist anymore. And simultaneously try not to energize the opposing base.
An alternative theory is try to appeal to the widest group of people and try to pick off disaffected Trump voters or motivate non-voters to vote.

His moderation policies will win no ex-Trump votes in the general.
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Maybe.

barfo
 
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Rastapopoulos said:
What happened to ACTUAL Commie Pinko barfo? How did he become "generic centrist" barfo?
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Pete is a commie pinko, you just don't realize it yet. All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Pete is a commie pinko, you just don't realize it yet. All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

barfo
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Well it DID take him forever to come out as gay, so perhaps he's just a very private person.
 
jonnyboy said:
Healthcare is the #1 concern amongst the working class, which is the biggest demographic in the country. Poll after poll, time after time. Sanders is the only one addressing it in a straightforward way, all the others flip flop and produce caveats, excuses and disclaimers. It shouldn’t be any surprise Bernie is leading.
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Its his wall...over free stuff and tnhey shall follow....he's going to get some push back from dems that like their current healthcare and dont want the government pushing them on to something they dont want. Unions will not go for his medicare for all or nothing approach. He needs to convey just how he would govern all his free stuff besides the 1% will pay for it.
 
I have a memory of feeling positively toward Buttigieg. I think it's when all I knew was he was that guy who learned Norwegian to read more novels by an author he liked.

I can't imagine how actually worthy candidates like Harris or Booker or Castro feel towards him as they watch panicked billionaire donors fawn over him.
 
This is the kinda centrist bullshit that angers me.

“If Bernie ends up being one of these frontrunners, he’ll have to moderate. I’m not going socialist. Never been a socialist,” Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) said. “If he doesn’t change, I’ve got a dilemma there. We’ll see. But we’re talking about hypotheticals. I think there’s going to be a lot happening between now and then.”
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https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/12/biden-allies-eye-alternative-bloomberg-114596

Pick a side. Bernie did. Worrying about your local elections and down-ballot races should not be an issue. Bernie's whole point is to motivate people to join his side-- not appeal to the masses by being moderate, while not pushing any of his core agendas at the end of the day.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I have a memory of feeling positively toward Buttigieg. I think it's when all I knew was he was that guy who learned Norwegian to read more novels by an author he liked.
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That Buttigieg still exists... you can rekindle the flame, it's Valentine's Day Friday. Maybe get him something special?

I can't imagine how actually worthy candidates like Harris or Booker or Castro feel towards him as they watch panicked billionaire donors fawn over him.
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I don't know why those candidates didn't appeal more to donors, all three seemed like good candidates to me, but hopefully they are analyzing what they did wrong so they can do better next time. One thing I think they did wrong was dropping out too early.

barfo
 
barfo said:
One thing I think they did wrong was dropping out too early.

barfo
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Booker, for sure. Especially given Joe's drastic drop. Think he could have filled a nice void the political spectrum there.
 
illmatic99 said:
This is the kinda centrist bullshit that angers me.
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I'm with you on that - Manchin is a pain in the ass. Nevertheless, people like that do exist, and their votes count.

Pick a side. Bernie did. Worrying about your local elections and down-ballot races should not be an issue.
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Why shouldn't it be? It's hugely important. It's not just about the presidency.

Bernie's whole point is to motivate people to join his side--
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And if he can do that, great. But as of now, he's only motivated 26% of Democrats to join his side.

not appeal to the masses by being moderate, while not pushing any of his core agendas at the end of the day.
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He may get nominated and elected, we'll see. He's very unlikely to be able to implement his revolution if he does get elected. I fear he'll actually accomplish less than one of the more centrist candidates would, toward the same goals.

barfo
 
For a long time, I felt the line that defined the difference between communism and socialism was very blurred. A former Russian citizen, now living in the USA, gave me his version of the difference.

Communism is a one party system that "elects" their leaders. Much like democracy is our two party system that elects our leaders.

Socialism, the government owns and controls the economic system. We use the capitalist system were the public, as individuals or groups, owns and controls the economic system, under government regulations.

I asked him what it was like living under a socialist economic system. He thought for a moment, and these are his exact words. "It was like being raped everyday".
 
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barfo said:
I'm with you on that - Manchin is a pain in the ass. Nevertheless, people like that do exist, and their votes count.



Why shouldn't it be? It's hugely important. It's not just about the presidency.



And if he can do that, great. But as of now, he's only motivated 26% of Democrats to join his side.



He may get nominated and elected, we'll see. He's very unlikely to be able to implement his revolution if he does get elected. I fear he'll actually accomplish less than one of the more centrist candidates would, toward the same goals.

barfo
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In 08, Obama was inspirational, he was progressive, and won on a platform promising change. But the recession kinda fucked him over and losing majority in Congress magnified his inability to truly bring about change. Making sure to keep Congress blue is a big concern, but not if it comes at the cost of Bernie compromising his agendas to satisfy the masses in DC. I think he'd be different than Barack in this regard and wouldn't kowtow to the calls of him becoming more moderate.

Plus, I think he'd actually help the people down ballot moreso than Obama, anyway. Maybe I'm wrong...
 
illmatic99 said:
I think he'd be different than Barack in this regard and wouldn't kowtow to the calls of him becoming more moderate.
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Obama didn't kowtow to calls to be more moderate, he worked to get done what was possible. He went into health care reform wanting a proper public option, but it became obvious that the "blue dog" Democrats wouldn't vote for something that progressive. It was get what ended up the ACA done or nothing at all, and even getting the ACA through was a massive slog and almost didn't happen.

And soon after, Republicans took the House. This is what I mean about people not recognizing that we don't elect emperors--you can't just get anything you want done as long as you care enough or believe enough. There was no way in hell a Republican House was ever going to vote through more progressive legislation, so Obama tried to get more moderate things done--things that incrementally moved the needle rather than holding out for things that had no hope because the opposing party obviously had no reason or incentive to go along.

You're setting Sanders up to fail you even if he did get elected President. You seem to think he can get his agenda through via sheer force of will. He can't--he needs a majority of the House and Senate to agree with him. If Republicans control either chamber (and, right now, odds are Republicans will still hold the Senate), his agenda is dead on arrival. And even if Democrats win the Senate, it'll be by a tiny margin. Any defections will tank more liberal agenda items, as Obama discovered. Then it'll look like Sanders either was ineffective or else kowtowed.
 
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