Politics Can Sanders beat Trump? (1 Viewer)

[Hoopguru]

I just don't see it in 2020. Only because his socialism doctrine, Im not sure is palatable for a good part of the electorate. I might be wrong put my hunch is America isn't ready yet to take on such a new doctrine that is to much of a stretch. Even Obama thinks that as well.

 

[drexlersdad]

he can, but he will likely get taken out before he gets the chance. DNC would definitely rather have 4 more years of trump than a bernie presidency.

hes got an army of excited volunteers, and they really are excited. nobody else stands a chance against trump imo. like seriously, biden? hell naw.

 

[Lanny]

I just don't see it in 2020. Only because his socialism doctrine, Im not sure is palatable for a good part of the electorate. I might be wrong put my hunch is America isn't ready yet to take on such a new doctrine that is to much of a stretch. Even Obama thinks that as well.

I think his Socialism stand is going to be a big stumbling block in the Democratic nomination process but I think Donald Duck could beat Donald Trump in a general election and so I think yes, Bernie Sanders could beat Donald Trump in a general election.

 

[MARIS61]

America will never embrace communism, which saw it's peak here 3 years ago.

It's failures are exposed, it's on it's way out worldwide.

 

[Hoopguru]

I think his Socialism stand is going to be a big stumbling block in the Democratic nomination process but I think Donald Duck could beat Donald Trump in a general election and so I think yes, Bernie Sanders could beat Donald Trump in a general election.

I don't see it as much as Trump is disliked in primarily the West coast and NE coast.
Any other Dems could beat him. There are many Dems and I know a bunch that if Bernie gets the nod they may not even vote.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Bernie cant even prevent his own rallies from being taken over.



He cant even beat a punching bag.


Most importantly, he got fucked by the DNC and just took it.

 

[H.C.]

In 2016 Sanders would've smashed Trump.(Those who aren't blind on both sides of the isle admit this)
If Sanders is the 2020 nominee. Right now it's far closer than anyone wants on either side.
That's not due to what Trump nor Sanders have done. It's due to people being so disenfranchised with the system as it is. Watching zero change from the 16 election to the 2020 election...
The Democrats haven't learned from their past mistakes. Which directly led to Trump winning the 2016 election.
Maybe they'll learn after repeat the exact same mistakes and lose the 2020 election to Trump.

I don't see it as much as Trump is disliked in primarily the West coast and NE coast.
Any other Dems could beat him. There are many Dems and I know a bunch that if Bernie gets the nod they may not even vote.

-

You can find people who say that about any candidate. On both sides of the isle.
You also saw in 2016 the Democrats thinking Hillary was a lock to beat Trump. So I wouldn't say any other democrat could beat Trump.
Therefore using that as an argument to vote for or not vote for x is bogus.

 

[BlazerWookee]

President Trump will top 400 electoral votes if he runs against Sanders. Or Biden. Or Warren.

 

[GhostOfPGA]

In my MOST generous scenario for Bernie in a national election I can honestly only see him carrying the following states:

Washington, Oregon, California, Hawaii, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Minnesota, Illinois, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Delaware, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Virginia, and DC.

That is 233 electoral points.

 

[Lanny]

America will never embrace communism, which saw it's peak here 3 years ago.

It's failures are exposed, it's on it's way out worldwide.

Agreed, but what's that got to do with the thread?

 

[Hoopguru]

America will never embrace communism, which saw it's peak here 3 years ago.

It's failures are exposed, it's on it's way out worldwide.

In my MOST generous scenario for Bernie in a national election I can honestly only see him carrying the following states:

Washington, Oregon, California, Hawaii, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Minnesota, Illinois, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Delaware, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Virginia, and DC.

That is 233 electoral points.

Im not so sure about Minn, or even NM.

 

[GhostOfPGA]

Im not so sure about Minn, or even NM.

Me either, which is why I said my most generous scenario. If Bernie is the nominee of the states I listed him winning, the following states would be toss ups:

Colorado, New Mexico, Minnesota, Maine, Virginia... MAYBE New Jersey.

 

[Hoopguru]

In 2016 Sanders would've smashed Trump.(Those who aren't blind on both sides of the isle admit this)
If Sanders is the 2020 nominee. Right now it's far closer than anyone wants on either side.
That's not due to what Trump nor Sanders have done. It's due to people being so disenfranchised with the system as it is. Watching zero change from the 16 election to the 2020 election...
The Democrats haven't learned from their past mistakes. Which directly led to Trump winning the 2016 election.
Maybe they'll learn after repeat the exact same mistakes and lose the 2020 election to Trump.

-

You can find people who say that about any candidate. On both sides of the isle.
You also saw in 2016 the Democrats thinking Hillary was a lock to beat Trump. So I wouldn't say any other democrat could beat Trump.
Therefore using that as an argument to vote for or not vote for x is bogus.

With respect I don't agree with Bernie taking key States in 2016. Wi,Ohio,Mich, Penn, Florida along with the se & southern states. Between Hillary and Bernie I do believe she had it won if she had spent time in The MidWest. Thats just my opinion. She beat herself.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I just don't see it in 2020. Only because his socialism doctrine, Im not sure is palatable for a good part of the electorate. I might be wrong put my hunch is America isn't ready yet to take on such a new doctrine that is to much of a stretch. Even Obama thinks that as well.

What exactly do you think his "socialism doctrine" is.

A socialist democrat is not the same as a socialist.

It might be a bit better for everyone to discuss his proposed policies than to debate labels.

 

[H.C.]

With respect I don't agree with Bernie taking key States in 2016. Wi,Ohio,Mich, Penn, Florida along with the se & southern states. Between Hillary and Bernie I do believe she had it won if she had spent time in The MidWest. Thats just my opinion. She beat herself.

You're welcome to your opinion. I don't have to agree with it.

Care to respond to the other part of my post that actually addressed your post?

 

[H.C.]

What exactly do you think his "socialism doctrine" is.

A socialist democrat is not the same as a socialist.

It might be a bit better for everyone to discuss his proposed policies than to debate labels.

Now that's crazy talk.
A family member got mad at me because I said to them. ''Do you know the difference between a democratic socialist and a socialist?''
They said no and got really mad that I would even ask such a question.
How dare I participate in a conversation that was brought up to me... I'm too young and should just fall in line.

 

[crandc]

Trump would try to turn him into Pol Pot, and the white supremacists in his cabal would be screaming bloody murder about how a Jewish president would destroy Christians who are the only real America.

 

[jonnyboy]

What exactly do you think his "socialism doctrine" is.

A socialist democrat is not the same as a socialist.

It might be a bit better for everyone to discuss his proposed policies than to debate labels.

Everybody seems to be ok with socialized bombing campaigns, but socialized medicine? Scary shit.

 

[crandc]

In fact a Republican state legislator in Montana just claimed the Constitution confers the right to kill socialists.

He could not cite the relevant clause. For obvious reasons.

 

[jonnyboy]

Trump would try to turn him into Pol Pot, and the white supremacists in his cabal would be screaming bloody murder about how a Jewish president would destroy Christians who are the only real America.

I think Trump and his cronies are far from upstanding folks, but this seems like quite an exaggeration. When’s the last time you saw a politician speak out against Jews? Many politicians are Jewish, along with many members of Trump’s cabinet and many other political lobbyists. The Jewish community is probably more fairly represented in Washington than most other minority groups.

 

[crandc]

When? During impeachment when a Trump supporting preachers cited Jerry Nadler, Chuck Schumer, and Adam Schiff and said this was a "Jew coup" against a great Christian president. When? When Trump supporters marched in Charlottesville chanting "Jews will not replace us".

 

[jonnyboy]

When? During impeachment when a Trump supporting preachers cited Jerry Nadler, Chuck Schumer, and Adam Schiff and said this was a "Jew coup" against a great Christian president. When? When Trump supporters marched in Charlottesville chanting "Jews will not replace us".

There are pieces of shit in this country and there always has been. They don’t make up a big enough demographic to overtake an election.

 

[MARIS61]

Trump would try to turn him into Pol Pot, and the white supremacists in his cabal would be screaming bloody murder about how a Jewish president would destroy Christians who are the only real America.

TDS.

More realistically, average people who have worked hard and accomplished things in their lives would prefer to stay with the POTUS who has protected their individual legacies rather than elect a fraud who would rob them of their small victories while amassing a fortune of his own.

Dems have replaced their Hope and Change platform with one of Hate and Fear.

 

[Hoopguru]

You're welcome to your opinion. I don't have to agree with it.

Care to respond to the other part of my post that actually addressed your post?

Sorry for late replay just got back from kids watching SB.
Ill try and address your comments.
You may be correct that it could be closer than what people think, Im just not convinced he wins mid west, se, & south. But i could be wrong?
I totally agree that people fell disenfranchised with the current system and results. Im probably one of them as a libertarian.
You state there hasn't been any change at all since 2016, I believe there has been change, most I don't agree with put some I do with regards to loosening business regulations and addressing criminal justice. I also am in favor of new trade agreements and like Bernie not a big supporter of NAFTA.
I too hope Dems can learn from past mistakes but they have to decide how far left they want to go.
And after some thought maybe I shouldn't have said anyone other than Bernie could beat Trump. I just think a more moderate democrat would be more palatable.
Thanks for your feedback and asking for more from me.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I don’t think so, but it will be a pretty big test case for the future of the Democratic Party. It’s literally “I am the oldest and whitest male ever to run for President. I have been a lawmaker for 30 years, yet have not proposed any of my ideas as legislation in 30 years (because it wouldn’t pass Congress). Now I want to enact that same legislation, knowing that it still won't pass Congress. But vote for me, because I'll give free stuff and I'm not Trump." First, I think that there's a significant portion of the voting population (especially young people from coastal areas) that those two points resonate with, and it'll be interesting to see how much they come out.

Honestly, in my perfect world Bernie runs as the Libertarian Party candidate after getting hosed out of the primaries by Biden/DNC/Ghost of Hillary and Obama, and takes more than 15% of the vote, so that we can have a legit 3-candidate race in 2024.

But to answer the question, I don't think he has the appeal to get the brunt of the Democratic base out in enough mass to get him wins in battleground states. And the primaries look like they'll chew up most of election cycle, minimizing the amount of time the Bernie can start attacking Trump. I just don't know what Bernie can say or do or fundraise enough to make independents and line-crossers to a) vote against Trump or b) stay home. Hillary in 2016 had much more pull than Bernie in 2020, and couldn't do it, and thought I think that Biden (while he would likely have been a horrible President) could've won in 16, I don't think there's any way he does now.

What would be Bernie's strategy? How is he going to take back 4 or so of Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin ?

 

[Hoopguru]

What exactly do you think his "socialism doctrine" is.

A socialist democrat is not the same as a socialist.

It might be a bit better for everyone to discuss his proposed policies than to debate labels.

Dog, I know the difference between the two. Im not convinced that we can afford within reason free education, medical and the large government, and huge tax increases across the board to finance a democratic socialist government. I dont agree with him when he says only the rich will pay for all the cost as all you have to do is look at Scandinavian countries and the huge tax that all their citizens pay much more as a percentage of income as we do here. Even their they have kept capitalism alive and productive as the golden goose laying the golden eggs. They have encourage good relationships with corporations and small business. Bernie has always used Scandinavia as his one of his models but the true is and you never him him address it much is that the people there are tired of the tax burden to cover extreme cost.
Bernie has over the years talked up Chavez and the Venezuela democratic socialism that was implemented and once the government was so big and powerful they took control of production and price controls and now look at the country.
As a libertarian Im for, capitalism free markets, pro business, rather than against business, against so many regulations, its tough for mom and pop and innovation, small efficient government with social security and a few programs to help the needy and not become a welfare state. I support low taxes and agree with a progressive tax structure. Im anti nation building, realize we need a military thats efficient and not part of a war machine politic. Im pro choice and support even those that want to support pro life as their personal decision. I support same sex marriage.
Bernie comes across like its his way or the highway and Im not convinced the American people would embrace his free everything with no moderation or alternatives at this point in time. It will be interesting to see if he can indeed win over the midwest, SE, & South with his plan and doctrine, because of all the candidates he clearly has one.
We'll see.

 

[Hoopguru]

I don’t think so, but it will be a pretty big test case for the future of the Democratic Party. It’s literally “I am the oldest and whitest male ever to run for President. I have been a lawmaker for 30 years, yet have not proposed any of my ideas as legislation in 30 years (because it wouldn’t pass Congress). Now I want to enact that same legislation, knowing that it still won't pass Congress. But vote for me, because I'll give free stuff and I'm not Trump." First, I think that there's a significant portion of the voting population (especially young people from coastal areas) that those two points resonate with, and it'll be interesting to see how much they come out.

Honestly, in my perfect world Bernie runs as the Libertarian Party candidate after getting hosed out of the primaries by Biden/DNC/Ghost of Hillary and Obama, and takes more than 15% of the vote, so that we can have a legit 3-candidate race in 2024.

But to answer the question, I don't think he has the appeal to get the brunt of the Democratic base out in enough mass to get him wins in battleground states. And the primaries look like they'll chew up most of election cycle, minimizing the amount of time the Bernie can start attacking Trump. I just don't know what Bernie can say or do or fundraise enough to make independents and line-crossers to a) vote against Trump or b) stay home. Hillary in 2016 had much more pull than Bernie in 2020, and couldn't do it, and thought I think that Biden (while he would likely have been a horrible President) could've won in 16, I don't think there's any way he does now.

What would be Bernie's strategy? How is he going to take back 4 or so of Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin ?

If Bernie was more business supportive and embraced capitalism he could run as a libertarian, but he's do neither as he's a devout socialist.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Just read this today and this is probably the thread it fits in...title was "Never-Bernie Movement?"

“For Democrats to win, the election must be a referendum on Trump and not a debate about socialism,” Michael Kempner, a longtime Democratic donor who has cut checks for Biden and Buttigieg, told The Post. “The vast majority of Democrats and the nation do not believe in socialism.”

 

[Hoopguru]

Trump would try to turn him into Pol Pot, and the white supremacists in his cabal would be screaming bloody murder about how a Jewish president would destroy Christians who are the only real America.

Bernie would rather model himself after Chavez or his old buddy Castro actually.

 

[GhostOfPGA]

Just read this today and this is probably the thread it fits in...title was "Never-Bernie Movement?"

If Bernie wins the nomination, he will almost be forced to pick a moderate to be his running mate. Someone in the Tulsi, Klobuchar, Bennet, Delaney pool.

If he picks someone like Yang, Abrams, Cuomo, Castro, or Beto... he’s 100% fucked