Can we admit that agnosticism is the logical way of thinking?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
GOD said:
The difference is simple. There is no belief in the existence, but that does not mean that we know for certain, just that there is no reason to give any respect to the concept of god. As I said, I don't know there is not a 210 boobed monkey. But without something to make me think its a possibility I just don't believe.

There are some things that have an answer. 2 plus 2 is 4. I can say I don't believe it is 7.8, but I can also say I know that 2+2 does not equal 7.8 because there is an answer that can be had. With God, there is no possible final answer because there is no way to prove that something (anything) does not exist. Try and prove that unicorns don'e exist in alternate universes. There is no way for you to look, no way for you to know.
Click to expand...

So atheists are just agnostic then? :)

PAt yourself on the back brother, this thread says you're logical! ;)
 
magnifier661 said:
That particle is what theorized the expansion of the universe; but it is only a theory. And tell me how this observation explains the expansion again?

Also, do you believe mass is eternal?
Click to expand...

First off, this is not my area of expertise, so I really just don't know. I have a very shabby understanding of the beginning of the universe, you would have to ask a theoretical physicist and even so, I don't know if it can be explained without a deep understanding of high level math.

I was not bringing up the Bozon in context of the beginning of the expansion, I was just bringing it into the discussion you and denny were having about seeing, touching, feeling .... in order to know something exists. I was just trying to bring up one example of something that was theorized via math, long before there was any proof. I was trying to explain that there is another way of answering questions other that what the senses tell you, there is complex reasoning as is done with math. I probably should have used a different example.
 
magnifier661 said:
Also, do you believe mass is eternal?
Click to expand...

No. At least outside of the timeline, I don't.

EDIT: eternal would suggest you are asking within the timeline, and then my answer would be yes, or mostly yes with some potential caveats when the temperature was hot enough to alter or remove the laws of nature.
 
Last edited:
My wife and I created 2 lives, and God was created in our image.
 
magnifier661 said:
Not that I agree with the way of thinking; since I am a christian; but I do believe agnosticism is the truest form of logical thinking.

They don't believe in things because they don't have evidence to support one way or another. Basically the "Spock" of thinking.

With atheism; they don't believe in God; yet they have no proof that God doesn't exist. Theism believes in God but arguably only have Faith and personal experience to prove their God exists. The agnostic says "I see no proof one way it another, so I won't care until the proof presents itself".
Click to expand...

As somebody who is completely agnostic, I agree! The best part of being agnostic is that I don't have faith or a firm belief, either way, other than there are many things about life, the universe, etc. etc. that I simply do not understand.

I just want proof, but I will say I find those with atheistic faith more annoying and angry than the vast majority of those with religious faith that I know in real life.
 
Last edited:
GOD said:
Most are, yes, the terms are not mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...

They are exclusive. Atheism is a belief against theism, quite literally. Agnosticism is a 'belief' that things that aren't known, can't be known to exist. That doesn't mean they don't exist, they.
 
Last edited:
GOD said:
Most are, yes, the terms are not mutually exclusive.:
Click to expand...

Spoken like the obvious agnostic that you are.

Christians believe in God.

Atheists know there is no god.

Agnostics don't know what to believe.
 
Buddhism

Theism or atheism?

I have to go with the latter.
 
magnifier661 said:
Not that I agree with the way of thinking; since I am a christian; but I do believe agnosticism is the truest form of logical thinking.
Click to expand...

That's kinda where I was, until I came to the realization that things just didn't materialize on their own. So, I chose the creation solution. Glad I did. Now living a life of joy and satisfaction that comes with being a disciple of Christ.
 
magnifier661 said:
See I know you disagree, but I don't see it in this way. I feel that true "atheism" is knowledge that God doesn't exist. But you and I have beat this dead horse too many times before.
Click to expand...


i don't really care about semantics. the point is peoples' belief or disbelief isn't black and white like you are implying. it's not as simple as "god" = believe/disbelieve/don't know. there's a continuous spectrum of level of confidence and view of probability that will vary widely for various specific definitions of what you mean by god, even for individuals. i would certainly claim to have knowledge that yahweh does not exist. i would not make that claim for a deistic creator.
 
crowTrobot said:
i don't really care about semantics. the point is peoples' belief or disbelief isn't black and white like you are implying. it's not as simple as "god" = believe/disbelieve/don't know. there's a continuous spectrum of level of confidence and view of probability that will vary widely for various specific definitions of what you mean by god, even for individuals. i would certainly claim to have knowledge that yahweh does not exist. i would not make that claim for a deistic creator.
Click to expand...

If you label yourself an "atheist", then quite literally there is a direct interpretation to what that means. Whether it means the same thing to you isn't relevant, because words to have meaning.

If you're not completely of the belief there is no higher deity, then you're not really an atheist, by definition.
 
crowTrobot said:
i don't really care about semantics. the point is peoples' belief or disbelief isn't black and white like you are implying. it's not as simple as "god" = believe/disbelieve/don't know. there's a continuous spectrum of level of confidence and view of probability that will vary widely for various specific definitions of what you mean by god, even for individuals. i would certainly claim to have knowledge that yahweh does not exist. i would not make that claim for a deistic creator.
Click to expand...

I don't know of this is true. It seems like people don't believe or they do. The ones who don't are rarely persuaded to change their minds, and vice versa.

Wouldn't this indicate a fairly high level of confidence in their (lack of) belief?
 
Denny Crane said:
I don't know of this is true. It seems like people don't believe or they do. The ones who don't are rarely persuaded to change their minds, and vice versa.

Wouldn't this indicate a fairly high level of confidence in their (lack of) belief?
Click to expand...

It might not happen often, but I certainly know people who were believers who now do not. I was never religious, but I did believe in some sort of god, but now I don't.
 
PapaG said:
If you label yourself an "atheist", then quite literally there is a direct interpretation to what that means. Whether it means the same thing to you isn't relevant, because words to have meaning.

If you're not completely of the belief there is no higher deity, then you're not really an atheist, by definition.
Click to expand...


yawn
 
PapaG said:
Logic sucks when you read it. I understand.
Click to expand...

there are multiple subjective working definitions of atheism and always have been.

and in any case what people call themselves to define who they are determines what the dictionary says, not the other way round.
 
I don't think all 'Christians' believe in God. They just title themselves as Christian because they believe it puts them on a pedestal in society. How many times do I have to read about someone saying they're praying for someone/something when in reality they probably don't even know how to pray or don't pray.

It would be a great Seinfeld episode.
 
MickZagger said:
How many times do I have to read about someone saying they're praying for someone/something when in reality they probably don't even know how to pray or don't pray.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty right-on statement, actually.
 
crowTrobot said:
there are multiple subjective working definitions of atheism and always have been.

and in any case what people call themselves to define who they are determines what the dictionary says, not the other way round.
Click to expand...

So let's say you're a pedophile, but you call yourself a youth-mentor.

What would the dictionary say? :dunno:
 
MARIS61 said:
So let's say you're a pedophile, but you call yourself a youth-mentor.

What would the dictionary say? :dunno:
Click to expand...

in·con·gru·ous
/inˈkäNGgro͞oəs/
 
YIkq7p0.jpg
 
crowTrobot said:
there are multiple subjective working definitions of atheism and always have been.

and in any case what people call themselves to define who they are determines what the dictionary says, not the other way round.
Click to expand...

Yep. Words mean nothing when the people who use them change what they mean.

Thanks for proving my point. Doesn't mean I at all am buying the BS, though.
 
PapaG said:
Yep. Words mean nothing when the people who use them change what they mean.
Click to expand...

atheism has never meant exclusively a positive claim that no possible god(s) exist. it has never been used exclusively in that manner, and it is easy to find definitions and descriptions that include simple lack of belief in a god. it's impractical and silly to insist on your specific definition when the vast majority of people who call themselves atheists now and in the past have meant something different by it. you're just stubbornly propping up a straw man so you can rant against it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top