Canucks at Rangers

[bern_baby_bern]

They got a point in spite of Girardi and McDonagh tonight. They were terrible on just about every shift. Surprised they didn't give up more goals.

 

[panzerporter]

Why do you keep patting yourself on the back for pointing out that Cam isn't as good as Hank Chuck?, nobody to my knowledge has made that argument but I think after 50+ posts replete with stat you've adequately demonstrated the obvious. There's no realistic alternative to Cam at this time unless this kid gets the start tomorrow and plays his ass off (hope he does!). I have pointed out that Hank's backup is only in his 2nd year coming off an exceptionally good rookie season and he is earning points for the Rangers until Hank gets back but clearly needs more than 50 games experience before becoming a full time starter. The defensive unit is not fine - way too soft and terribly sloppy with the puck and should be Glen's main focus. While Hank will mask the problems with the defensive unit with his greatness Cam or any backup will magnify it. The first Canuck goal Girardi dove head first from behind the goal and tripped Cam with his left skate as he slid by and unfortunately Mathias can lift a puck. The 2nd goal was an easy tip in for Horvat as he cruised unmolested through the slot. The 3rd goal was a sweet deflection by Sedin that I doubt Cam even saw as he was screened. The 4th goal should have been gloved but it was ridiculous that the Canucks were able to play keep away for a couple of minutes beforehand. Too many turnovers clearing the puck - a postseason kiss of death.

The Rangers yet again need to sign a physical dman and drop Boyle to 3rd group/PP. While they may need help on faceoffs I think it's unlikely Glen signs someone to replace Stepan or Hayes.

 

[chuckd3534]

Are you serious panzer? My lord you are off on this one. I have said 25 times I don't compare Cam to Hank. Let me write in caps so you get it. I AM NOT COMPARING CAM TO HANK. I AM TALKING ABOUT CAM AS A SOLID STARTING GOALIE.

I am really not sure what else to say panzer. Both Mess and I don't think Cam is ready to be a starting goalie, WHICH IS WHAT HE'S BEING ASKED TO BE RIGHT NOW. That has NOTHING AT ALL....NOTHING AT ALL to do with Hank.

Go look at Cam's numbers. Watch him play and leave rebound after rebound in front of his net. Watch him play and see him unable to catch pucks with his glove.

I cannot do this with you anymore. I think the point is clear that RIGHT NOW Cam is not a starting goalie. You keep saying stop comparing him to Hank, jesus christ man I am NOT comparing him to Hank. WE, and I say we because it is NOT just me, are comparing him to decent starting NHL goalies, not an elite one like Hank.

Then you include no realistic alternative and comment on Cam as a backup, which respectfully shows you are not getting the point man. We ALL have said Cam is a very solid backup. But he is NOT being judged by us as a backup right now because he is a starter. Cam resigned for one year to be a starter after next season. No one is saying we should start X over Cam. We understand we are where we are and it is what it is. All WE are saying is Cam is NOT ready to be a solid, not elite like Hank but SOLID, NHL starter. Period bro. Stop trying to make it more than that.

 

[chuckd3534]

As for last night, the Rangers did not come to play, couldn't agree more.

I have been a huge fan all season of adding a top 9 forward, but now I am starting to wonder if adding a dman as the big add is the way to go. I said that in a previous post. That is a big comment from me considering since game 5 I have been saying we need forward depth.

I can now see the logic in adding a Sekera or Petry type for the D, then turning around and adding a physical type 4th line guy who can add some size and bang a little for cheap. A much better version of Glass if you will.

I can see that being the way to play this. The D has not been good recently, I can totally see that BUT Cam has not helped them out at all. Most good D's get help from their goalie, how hockey works, but our goalie cannot help us right now. That's reality. It is also why I say do we need a dman over top 9 forward depth because when Hank comes back he will help the D out again with his great play.

Interesting situation for Glen. I am VERY confident he will add a semi-big player on D or at top 9 forward. Which one...not as sure as I used to be at the moment. Maybe you do add a dman upgrade and then a lesser 4th line depth forward to cap the forwards off. I kind of like the Letestu option. And then add a dman.

 

[chuckd3534]

Let me add this also.

With that said, Cam is not the sole reason or even the main reason we lost last night. The first two goals you wonder what the F McDonagh was doing. The tying goal late we were pinned in our zone for 3 minutes straight it seemed. Cam still left ANOTHER rebound right in front as he always does, but we were pinned in deep for a long time and that isn't on Cam.

So this is not all Cam. I don't think he is giving them a ton of help back there with bail-out saves, but this is not all on him no way man. The sloppy play by the D in our own zone is mind blowing sometimes (that has to be addressed). I just don't get it. Cannot blame Cam for that. Can say stop leaving rebounds on a silver platter in front and catch the darn puck, but this is not on Cam only...no way.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

.900, .870, .880, .882, .897, .971, .884, .857

The glorious sv%'s in Cam's 8 starts. So ONE game with over an .900 sv%.

29.6 shots against per game on average.

25 goals against in 8 games. 3.12 gaa.

I think the defense does have a lot to say about thise stats as well. Rwmember way back when cams stats rivaled hanks and the theory was, oh well the team is player harder for cam...

Everyone is going gaga at the goal scoring prowers this team has found, anyone notice that they are giving up as many?

Almost a full 2 minutes in the zone before the tying goal, unacceptable.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Sometimes the defense has to you know cover their man if the result of the shot is a rebound.
Is cam perfect, no...is he startimg material, right now he is fighting it, but lets remember the defensive assingments are not the same as with previous coaching staffs. Defense at all cost is not priority number 1 and thats ok...
Cam needs more help than what is being given in front of him, if that means he is not suitable to be a starter so be it. An average nhl goaltender would not preform that much better right now.

 

[chuckd3534]

Al, I don't disagree with you about the sloppy play of the D. No doubt they need to be better. Fully acknowledge that. But I'm sorry I cannot see Cam leave huge rebound after huge rebound, be unable to catch the puck, make stick handling mistakes, and have sub .900 sv%'s game after game and say anything other than he has not played well...can't do it.

As I said, last night is NOT on Cam, team did not play well after a solid start, but Cam does not help them out either. It is sort of the perfect storm. The D has been sloppy with mistakes in their own end, and the goalie has not made enough big saves/makes mistakes and let's in soft goals and leaves huge rebounds in the crease.

Anyway you cut it the D needs to tighten up. We agree there for sure. And Cam also needs to play better IMO.

I think the kid will start tonight, so let's see what he does. Could be a 5-4 type game. Just hope we get the 5. Unless the kid is awful, no excuse to get beat by Buffalo.

 

[Greyvtrayn]

I'm fairly certain what Panzer was saying in his post is that THERE IS NO REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE TO TALBOT AT THIS POINT so constantly regurgitating (sp?) that he is not looking like a 'starting goaltender' is a weak point. No f%&king shit he is not playing like a starting goalie...that's why HE IS A BACKUP. When your unquestioned (by most....stealth) starting goalie is out long term...guess who is going to be starting in net...your BACKUP!
And looking at the last three goals that were scored I would put zero on Cam....MAYBE that 4th goal but the initial shot was off speed so controlling that puck is going to be tough, plus the d pair was out for nearly 2 full minutes with the puck in their own end, they were gassed.
In summation...Talbot is showing that he is what he has always been, a backup goalie. Just compile points as well as you can while hank is out and hope that when Hank does come back he is his old self. Stop bashing Talbot every game...it's tiresome.

 

[chuckd3534]

And I agree to disagree grey. You have struggled to understand the point from the start. AND on top of that panzer keeps saying we are comparing Cam to Hank...which we are not. I sure as sh*t respect your opinion, but I also don't think you get it. Cam is a huge reason we are allowing a lot of these goals. He needs to play better. Sure we can sit here and discuss the sloppy mistakes over and over again. Or we can discuss Cam over and over again. So take your pick bro.

Or maybe we put a new rule in...you can talk about something once and then done...LOL. Let's do that.

Okay talk to you guys after the trade DL and we'll discuss the player we add.

OR we can talk about the same topics we discuss OVER AND OVER again. Pick one...ANYONE. You don't like the Cam topic...awesome bro...but that is how it works. You can discuss the guy we'll deal for OVER AND OVER again. Or you can discuss the mistakes on D OVER AND OVER again. Whatever you want to do.

But don't act like Cam isn't a huge issue...he is. And don't act like any other topic you want to pick doesn't get talked into the ground OVER AND OVER again just like Cam. Welcome to a sports message board brother.

 

[panzerporter]

Grevy, you hit the nail on the head especially the tiresome part. I get it Chuck, Cam's save % sucks but he's earned the team 12 points in 8 games, I'd call that acceptable for a backup. Who exactly are you comparing Cam to if not Hank? Who is your alternative to Cam in this uncertain situation? I hope that Skapski pitches a shutout tonight, Cam needs a night off.

 

[chuckd3534]

Panzer he didn't nail anything. Like I said, pick a topic and they are ALL beaten to death. That is what a sports message board is.

We can talk about the guys we should trade for...oh wait we have done that ON AND ON for months.
We can talk about the dmen and turning the puck over...oh wait we have done that ON AND ON for months.

Go down the list, and we have talked about it ON AND ON for months.

Again the nature of what a sports message board is.

And BTW...again showing that you don't get it, the point is not who else can play instead of Cam, the point is MANY in here were saying Cam is good. That's the point. Cam can start. Cam should start for Hank, that happened late last season. Cam can be a starter. On and on. So the POINT is he is not ready to be a starter, and this stretch clearly shows that.

And it makes me laugh when you say who are you comparing Cam to...we are comparing Cam to solid NHL starting goalies, not an elite goalie like Hank. Cam has played like a backup who is forced to start. That's it.

I am done with Cam now. So far it is what it is. Tired of discussing Cam. Exactly what Mess and I were afraid of is happening so far. Hopefully Cam comes back strong Sunday night after a few days off.

 

[Messiah717]

Reading is fundamental. Show one damn time anybody compared Talbot to Lundqvist. What was said is very simple so please read again carefully. I said from the start that I was worried about Talbot having to be the starter over the long haul. The team has done surprisingly well in a span where Talbot's numbers haven't been very good at all. You cannot expect the team to score five goals a night in order to bail him out so he's going to have to be better in the next series of games.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

If we can only find a right handed centerman who draws over 55% and can play point on the power play, while every third shift line up as a dman