Notice Cartel bust Salem Oregon

[Hoopguru]

KPTVOregon part of multi-state fentanyl bust; largest in DEA history1 hour ago

wow....glad that shit is off the streets

 

[barfo]

Glad we finally caught those pesky Canadians!

 

[Hoopguru]

Salem ReporterMan charged with running Sinaloa cartel-linked operation from Salem30 minutes ago

 

[Phatguysrule]

Glad we finally caught those pesky Canadians!

But how are they getting here with the wall and all of the border patrol?

 

[Hoopguru]

But how are they getting here with the wall and all of the border patrol?

As far as I'm concerned these guys may as well be selling rat poison, pure evil. When you think of the fact they were selling them as oxi and marked as so, pure ass evil. Put that mother fucker on Alcatraz, after you castrate him.

 

[Phatguysrule]

As far as I'm concerned these guys may as well be selling rat poison, pure evil. When you think of the fact they were selling them as oxi and marked as so, pure ass evil. Put that mother fucker on Alcatraz, after you castrate him.

Well yeah. Being hooked on oxy is what got people wanting fentanyl so badly to begin with.

It has always been sold as oxy.

 

[Hoopguru]

Well yeah. Being hooked on oxy is what got people wanting fentanyl so badly to begin with.

It has always been sold as oxy.

Cut off the supply big time and build rehab centers if they dont want to get clean send them to a work farm/job core somewhere, dont just put them back out on the streets.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Cut off the supply big time and build rehab centers if they dont want to get clean send them to a work farm/job core somewhere, dont just put them back out on the streets.

Just get them treatment and care. Get them housed.

That's the only way this gets better. It's not a question of want. Some will never recover. But far more recover this way and with far fewer relapses.

Punishing them (forcing them to live somewhere with reduced freedoms) serves nobody and costs more than simply housing and treating them.

You can't cut off the supply. These are made from off the shelf chemicals.

 

[Hoopguru]

Just get them treatment and care. Get them housed.

That's the only way this gets better. It's not a question of want. Some will never recover. But far more recover this way and with far fewer relapses.

Punishing them (forcing them to live somewhere with reduced freedoms) serves nobody and costs more than simply housing and treating them.

You can't cut off the supply. These are made from off the shelf chemicals.

Life is about choices for everyone, if a habitual addict refuses treatment over and over and wants to live on the street. Its time to for them to get serious about change or be penalized.
I hope you think that it does help to get that kind of qty off the street.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Life is about choices for everyone, if a habitual addict refuses treatment over and over and wants to live on the street. Its time to for them to get serious about change or be penalized.
I hope you think that it does help to get that kind of qty off the street.

You get them off the street by housing them. This has been done successfully many places. Including here in the US. It works. Far better than any punishment.

People don't need to be punished for having a disease. Which is what addiction is.

If they are committing crime (theft or damage of property, or harming others) then they should absolutely be punished, like anybody else. But that simply doesn't happen in high numbers if you offer them freedom, housing and treatment.

If somebody is intoxicated on the street police can remove them. They can take them home or to a health center. Nothing further is needed.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

How many of you have even talked to a homeless person? I have a friend that goes downtown weekly and brings homeless folks meals. He has said many of these people went bankrupt due to health issues and turned to substances because they were so depressed.

Oregon groups are trying to make Oregon the first state that offers Healthcare for all. They are hoping something like that is on the ballot fall 2026.

 

[Chris Craig]

Glad that's not on the streets anymore

 

[Phatguysrule]

How many of you have even talked to a homeless person? I have a friend that goes downtown weekly and brings homeless folks meals. He has said many of these people went bankrupt due to health issues and turned to substances because they were so depressed.

I haven't. Super busy with the kids. But this makes a ton of sense.

Oregon groups are trying to make Oregon the first state that offers Healthcare for all. They are hoping something like that is on the ballot fall 2026.

This would be absolutely incredible.

 

[Hoopguru]

How many of you have even talked to a homeless person? I have a friend that goes downtown weekly and brings homeless folks meals. He has said many of these people went bankrupt due to health issues and turned to substances because they were so depressed.
Ive had a close family member that was on the streets for years, and he was offered help and assistance for nearly two decades. His whole thing was he could beat the system and he preferred that life style. I know many to not want to be on the streets but have been down in their luck. There are a large percentage that have always struggled with putting forth effort to help themselves even before the cycle of addiction. To many its also a life style they choose because they have no obligation to themselves or others. The only time my family had some hope is when he was jailed for 6 months. He came out ready to turn over a new leaf. It wasnt 1 eek later and he's back to partying and mooching and living day to day as he would say. As an 4o some year old I felt he could make the decision to live as he would like. It didn’t end well and it was tough on the family as he was given man opportunities and he would blow it off.

Oregon groups are trying to make Oregon the first state that offers Healthcare for all. They are hoping something like that is on the ballot fall 2026.

 

[Hoopguru]

You get them off the street by housing them. This has been done successfully many places. Including here in the US. It works. Far better than any punishment.

People don't need to be punished for having a disease. Which is what addiction is.

If they are committing crime (theft or damage of property, or harming others) then they should absolutely be punished, like anybody else. But that simply doesn't happen in high numbers if you offer them freedom, housing and treatment.

If somebody is intoxicated on the street police can remove them. They can take them home or to a health center. Nothing further is needed.

How about if someone is fucked up either way and breaking the law? Many dont want help at all and dont want responsibility for getting by day to day which is fine with me if thats their choice. Ive been an advocate of more housing and also mental institutions for those that need it. And for some they need to be punished/penalized for willingly breaking the law. Im almost 75 and looking back at a glance have seen many things tried some of it works and some doesn't. Ive had family and friends on the street, in prison and mental hospitals and the one common thread ive witnessed is those that want help and have a desire for change can make it happen. This whole issue hits home and ive learned a few things believe it or not.

 

[Phatguysrule]

How about if someone is fucked up either way and breaking the law? Many dont want help at all and dont want responsibility for getting by day to day which is fine with me if thats their choice. Ive been an advocate of more housing and also mental institutions for those that need it. And for some they need to be punished/penalized for willingly breaking the law. Im almost 75 and looking back at a glance have seen many things tried some of it works and some doesn't. Ive had family and friends on the street, in prison and mental hospitals and the one common thread ive witnessed is those that want help and have a desire for change can make it happen. This whole issue hits home and ive learned a few things believe it or not.

I've already said people who are breaking the law causing harm to others should be punished.

We have actual evidence of what works. We should do what evidence proves actually works.

We should not torture people just because we don't like them or their decisions.

Evidence shows that it is not effective and is far more expensive.

 

[Shaboid]

Does this mean Salem gets labeled the ultimate sanctuary city and is the first invaded by ICE and Trump's other goons? Don't get me wrong, this is great, get that shit off the street, it's just a little weird that Salem is the only specific city mentioned. That a 36 year old kingpin lives in the capitol city of one of the most progressive states in the union is rather convenient for the state of emergency at the border...

 

[Hoopguru]

I've already said people who are breaking the law causing harm to others should be punished.

We have actual evidence of what works. We should do what evidence proves actually works.

We should not torture people just because we don't like them or their decisions.

Evidence shows that it is not effective and is far more expensive.

Respectfully, evidence shows that many dont want help and they want to keep on living as they wish.
If they are offered housing, med/addiction help and a way forward and they tell ya to pound salt, what do you do with them?

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Respectfully, evidence shows that many dont want help and they want to keep on living as they wish.
If they are offered housing, med/addiction help and a way forward and they tell ya to pound salt, what do you do with them?

It is important to separate the groups. Other cities already do this. Those with substance abuse issues that don't want help are in one shelter. The rest that want help are in another shelter.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Respectfully, evidence shows that many dont want help and they want to keep on living as they wish.
If they are offered housing, med/addiction help and a way forward and they tell ya to pound salt, what do you do with them?

Evidence shows that doesn't happen very often at all.

And if you offer no-strings and secure housing they have no constitutional right to camp in public.

What else do you want? So they tell us to pound sand and don't get treatment. They'll die younger. That's their choice... They'll be a cautionary example for people to avoid drugs. Nobody WANTS to live that way.

 

[THE HCP]

I never understood how homeless people could even afford drugs. Shit I have a job and am pretty comfortable and don’t think I could!

 

[Phatguysrule]

I never understood how homeless people could even afford drugs. Shit I have a job and am pretty comfortable and don’t think I could!

Fentanyl is incredibly cheap. As I understand it $5 is more than enough. You'll earn more than enough holding a sign on any street corner and then you won't care that you're sleeping under a bridge for a while.

That's why people who are unfortunate enough to lose their jobs or healthcare so often wind up in that situation.

 

[Hoopguru]

It is important to separate the groups. Other cities already do this. Those with substance abuse issues that don't want help are in one shelter. The rest that want help are in another shelter.

Totally agree, they have to be separated and thats one reason why many stay on the street. Many times that person that doest want help doesn't want to be in a shelter where there are rules and a pitch and help way. I know first hand many times my fam member would leave because of basic rules that he wouldn't abide by. Its not a one shoe fits all deal but new approached need to be tried. I have probably been involved with 25 separate council sessions both group and just fam.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Totally agree, they have to be separated and thats one reason why many stay on the street. Many times that person that doest want help doesn't want to be in a shelter where there are rules and a pitch and help way. I know first hand many times my fam member would leave because of basic rules that he wouldn't abide by. Its not a one shoe fits all deal but new approached need to be tried. I have probably been involved with 25 separate council sessions both group and just fam.

That's why shelters are shit and they don't work. Anywhere. It doesn't matter how you change them. I would also rather live under a bridge than follow some arbitrary rules. Fuck that.

If we aren't offering people private, secure quarters with freedom to come and go as they please then we aren't a part of any solution.

 

[Hoopguru]

That's why shelters are shit and they don't work. Anywhere. It doesn't matter how you change them. I would also rather live under a bridge than follow some arbitrary rules. Fuck that.

If we aren't offering people private, secure quarters with freedom to come and go as they please then we aren't a part of any solution.

I agree it's important to provide private shelter assistance with the freedom to come and go, However, that too will require some agreed on order/covenant that would be easy enough to abide by. What you dont want is a flop house with drugs and disturbance going on, thats non productive. There has to be buy in from the person, like I expected from my kids growing up and even when they became adults, or being part of a team, family. Ive shared before that my daughter has squatters next door and they were there for over 6 months, my daughter being the good samaritan she reached out and provided food, clothing and even rides, unfortunately the way they showed their appreciation was to break into the shop and steal and busted their fence down, and partied to we hours in the morning every night, when people had to get ups and go to work. They finally got busted for dealing with drugs and guns from the place and then only did the authorities make sure they left.

 

[Hoopguru]

I never understood how homeless people could even afford drugs. Shit I have a job and am pretty comfortable and don’t think I could!

Many of them steal and sell for drugs. Orb even steal drugs from others in their tribe.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I agree it's important to provide private shelter assistance with the freedom to come and go, However, that too will require some agreed on order/covenant that would be easy enough to abide by. What you dont want is a flop house with drugs and disturbance going on, thats non productive. There has to be buy in from the person, like I expected from my kids growing up and even when they became adults, or being part of a team, family.

No, I'm sorry but I have to disagree. This is not required. As shown in many cases in which housing first policies have eliminated local homeless epidemics

In fact, not only are these requirements not necessary, they are actively harmful.

As long as they're following the law they should be left alone, aside from being offered care and services.

Ive shared before that my daughter has squatters next door and they were there for over 6 months, my daughter being the good samaritan she reached out and provided food, clothing and even rides, unfortunately the way they showed their appreciation was to break into the shop and steal and busted their fence down, and partied to we hours in the morning every night, when people had to get ups and go to work. They finally got busted for dealing with drugs and guns from the place and then only did the authorities make sure they left.

This is an interesting story but it has nothing to do with most homeless people. You are describing people who are breaking the law.

I have already said that people who break the law should be punished.

You are trying to make this association that these people who are breaking the law are the same as homeless people. And that's simply not the case.

*Edit* This is how they eliminated homelessness in Finland.

This is how Salt Lake City had eliminated homelessness, before listening to people make these same claims that you are making now and moved away from the housing first policy. And now they have the same homeless problems as we've had in Portland.

 

[Hoopguru]

No, I'm sorry but I have to disagree. This is not required. As shown in many cases in which housing first policies have eliminated local homeless epidemics

In fact, not only are these requirements not necessary, they are actively harmful.

As long as they're following the law they should be left alone, aside from being offered care and services.


This is an interesting story but it has nothing to do with most homeless people. You are describing people who are breaking the law.

I have already said that people who break the law should be punished.

You are trying to make this association that these people who are breaking the law are the same as homeless people. And that's simply not the case.

*Edit* This is how they eliminated homelessness in Finland.

This is how Salt Lake City had eliminated homelessness, before listening to people make these same claims that you are making now and moved away from the housing first policy. And now they have the same homeless problems as we've had in Portland.

They were homeless and thats why they became squatters. You have different categories of homeless people, some just down on luck and want to get back on their feet, some that have mental issue besides addiction that need the kind of help, some that have mental issues and struggle with addiction that requires specialty help and some that are not willing to help themselves and just want to be on the streets and survive. No rules.
If you think just providing free everything with no willingness to at least abide by some rules. That will not work! And it's shown not to work. Those squatters were as homeless and could give ashit about them community and society they squat in.
I don't have all the answers and either do you. Geez Louise.....

 

[Phatguysrule]

They were homeless and thats why they became squatters. You have different categories of homeless people, some just down on luck and want to get back on their feet, some that have mental issue besides addiction that need the kind of help, some that have mental issues and struggle with addiction that requires specialty help and some that are not willing to help themselves and just want to be on the streets and survive. No rules.

And we have laws that separate the dangerous ones and services which address the rest.

If you think just providing free everything with no willingness to at least abide by some rules. That will not work! And it's shown not to work.

Can you provide a source please? Nobody has suggested no rules. Laws are rules. I'm suggesting that is all the rules needed unless the individual breaks them. In which case they should be treated differently based on their specific situation.

Those squatters were as homeless and could give ashit about them community and society they squat in.
I don't have all the answers and either do you. Geez Louise.....

It has worked pretty much everywhere it has been tried. Better than anything else that has been tried. And it's less expensive.

I don't have all the answers. But we have a proven solution to this.

I've posted several articles in this very forum of homeless people who have been given free rent in Portland and the landlords are happy with the situation. No additional rules or curfews are needed. People are living there, who would otherwise be homeless and the landlord wants it to continue.

Having trouble finding the links now but will post when I do.

It's critical that we get rid of this idea that the homeless are less than the rest of us. Many times they've just had a run of bad luck and the toxic shelter system we have doesn't work for a great many.

 

[Hoopguru]

And we have laws that separate the dangerous ones and services which address the rest.



Can you provide a source please? Nobody has suggested no rules. Laws are rules. I'm suggesting that is all the rules needed unless the individual breaks them. In which case they should be treated differently based on their specific situation.



It has worked pretty much everywhere it has been tried. Better than anything else that has been tried. And it's less expensive.

I don't have all the answers. But we have a proven solution to this.

I've posted several articles in this very forum of homeless people who have been given free rent in Portland and the landlords are happy with the situation. No additional rules or curfews are needed. People are living there, who would otherwise be homeless and the landlord wants it to continue.

Having trouble finding the links now but will post when I do.

It's critical that we get rid of this idea that the homeless are less than the rest of us. Many times they've just had a run of bad luck and the toxic shelter system we have doesn't work for a great many.

I understand that there are those that jump at the opportunity for housing and freedom. And many find that as a spring board back to helping themselves. Thats fantastic. I know some those people. It's great we hear about those stories as well as maybe that helps in politicians in improving each year with this issue. My contention is you need to differentiate the different groups ands have a strategy for all. It not a one shoe fits all with such a diverse population of homeless.
When I allowed my brother live with us for time it was him that proposed some basic rules for staying in my household. He wanted some boundaries. Hell, I need boundaries according to my wife. Well, eventually he left because he dint want any restrictions, on staying with me and family. He chose his path. he wanted to play iso with the freedom to do so and a coach that would allow it. Doesn't work
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