Championship: Huevonkiller vs. DynastYWarrioR6

[Mamba]

We aren't transferring players into different era's, so that is completely irrelevant. We're matching them up with how they are. Huevon's team is far superior in terms of athleticism, bigs, and they have some pretty damn good IQ.

I wouldn't be questioning Melo's IQ, either. He was one of the main reasons why team USA got to where they did. D Rob? One of the smartest men to anchor the floor, CP3 and D Will are also very smart. I don't see how Dynasty's IQ is superior.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

Statistics will tell the entire story the same day the Grand Canyon gets filled in.

Rant on
The beauty of stats is that 98% of the time, one can find stats that are favorable to their own biased perspective.

Here is an easy script to follow when comparing players.
1) Start with the per game averages for the past season. If they aren't in your favor go to step 2.
2) Compare percentages, especially shooting. If they aren't in your favor go to step 3.
3) Compare per 48 and per 40 stats. If they aren't in your favor go to step 4
4) Look at career per game averages. If they aren't in your favor go to step 5.
5) Look at career percentages. If they aren't in your favor go to step 5.
6) Go to basketball-reference.com and look at the various advanced statistics. If nothing is in your favor go to step 7.
7) Go to 82games.com and look at the various statistics. If nothing is in your favor go to step 8.
8) Compare the players ages. If they aren't in your favor go to step 9.
9) Compare career totals to other players of a player that age. If they aren't in your favor, begin making stuff up.

Rant off

http://www.basketballforum.com/cpaws-cathouse/211236-posts-future-reference.html#post2751115

Another cpaw request. He doesn't want to step in to S2, but he has his opinion. Again, just copy pasting, you can take it up to him if you guys want to talk about it. Although I find this funny to read.

 

[huevonkiller]

Yeah, you have guys that force stuff trying to make plays, not always shooting. Sounds like you don't know what force means.

Right...

Pippen has a higher turnover rate compared to Pierce. Paul is the best passer in this matchup, and Carter's turnover rate at 9.8% is amazingly low.

 

[huevonkiller]

http://www.basketballforum.com/cpaws-cathouse/211236-posts-future-reference.html#post2751115

Another cpaw request. He doesn't want to step in to S2, but he has his opinion. Again, just copy pasting, you can take it up to him if you guys want to talk about it. Although I find this funny to read.

Uh right, so you're guilty of nothing here then? Try being a little more specific with your quarrel over stat X.

 

[huevonkiller]

If anything you want to ignore everything I say and take Volume stats as gospel which are usually more flawed than paced-stats. I see a lot of things to discuss, so generalized posts like that gets us nowhere.

 

[Mamba]

What the fuck, stop having Cpaw make your argument. That is damn lame. You can't make your own?

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

Okay so take two things that cpaw said and disregard everything else I said.

Calling me out on this shit. I've been sitting here retorting things left and right from both of you, so don't even say shit like that to me.

 

[Mamba]

Okay so take two things that cpaw said and disregard everything else I said.

Calling me out on this shit. I've been sitting here retorting things left and right from both of you, so don't even say shit like that to me.

Want some tissues?

I've hit some buttons with you, tonight.

Mamba wins, again.

 

[huevonkiller]

Okay so take two things that cpaw said and disregard everything else I said.

Calling me out on this shit. I've been sitting here retorting things left and right from both of you, so don't even say shit like that to me.

Your previous post was so broad it applied to you at least just as much.

 

[J_Ray]

MJ never won jack in the 80's though, he's not Jesus Christ.

Basically you are making up an argument to neutralize the fact that I have better bigs. His bigs got the offense ran through them, they just don't have the skill Rob and McHale do. Players who take bad shots hurt teams, I've avoided that on my squad.

MJ also never had anyone good around him in the 80's, Pippen was still young and developing into that great sidekick. The funny thing is you can say that about so many of your players too in a weaker less dominant ERA.....Arenas, Melo, Battier, Kenyon Martin, Paul, VC, Deron, David Robinson(in his prime),etc. The problem is that you don't have better bigs, you are just assuming you have better bigs. You are throwing out their prime years because they were in the ABA. If you want to throw out ABA years, throw out Melo's Olympic experience that Mamba keeps bringing up because he was playing Iran and China, hell even Argentina and Spain aren't even that great compared to an NBA team.

We aren't transferring players into different era's, so that is completely irrelevant. We're matching them up with how they are. Huevon's team is far superior in terms of athleticism, bigs, and they have some pretty damn good IQ.

I wouldn't be questioning Melo's IQ, either. He was one of the main reasons why team USA got to where they did. D Rob? One of the smartest men to anchor the floor, CP3 and D Will are also very smart. I don't see how Dynasty's IQ is superior.

You were trying to put Arenas, Dwight, & Melo in a different ERA, so you are saying your points are irrelevant also. He isn't far superior in athleticism either because DW's starters are just as athletic and they'll be playing most the game anyways since they are all big minute guys. You keep bringing up guys that will play limited minutes in a series, Arenas would only take about 3 shots a game, so he wouldn't be dropping "60". You obviously don't know Melo if you think he has a great b-ball IQ.

 

[JUNIOR MINT]

didn't see this earlier, but okay, "I found some of this funny."

I'm sorry, I found some of this funny. CP3 is the end-all for this PG matchup, that's cute. Him and Deron are up against Earl Monroe, an electrifying scorer at the PG position, as well as Lenny Wilkens who was a top passing point guard who could play wonderful D. "Flush down on any of my big men's head"...do you know who Willis Reed, Artis Gilmore, Dan Issel, and Connie Hawkins are? Gilmore and Reed won't let them "flush it down" over their heads, homie. Gilbert you say is a great shooter, fine, the question isn't whether he can shoot, but rather how many shots will he take. Gilbert is a chucker so good luck thinking he is gonna sit there and be our golden boy three point shooting Glen Rice. People act like World B. Free and Aguirre are scrubs compared to Carmelo, Kenyon Martin, and Battier. Please. World B. Free will run circles around his defender and Aguirre is just pure money.

I love Earl & Reed because they were Knickerbockers, but honestly I don't think any of your PG's will be able to match up against Paul I love Lenny Wilkins as a head coach, but seriously? He had wonderful D? How come he was never selected on the all-defensive team once then? And Monroe's career average for apg is 3.9 good luck trying to find time on sharing the ball and scoring between Monroe & Jordan. And to me, I just think that Paul's speed and quickness will kill them to catch up with him, and also to me the kind of guy Paul is, I think that he can lead a team to victory no matter what, he can have a 2 point game (unlikely) but he will drop 15 assists and be the reason why his team won. And when that doesn't work I just think he has the ability to take over the game and beat another team himself. Lookit the shitty cast he has now compared to an Amare, D12, McHale & Robinson, you don't think he'll find them at any moment of the game and have them score easy buckets? & also if you don't know, Paul has GREAT hands, he'll get couple on ball steals since Monroe loves to dribble a lot. By the way, Gilbert has great hands also.

Kevin Mchale will be capable to stop Reed, this shouldn't even be a discussion...Reed has a career total of 21 shotblocks, your telling me he "wouldn't be getting dunked on his head"? "homie" he'll be getting dunked on in the post constantly, are you kidding me? Amare, Dwight and Robinson are no softies in the post. Dan Issel won't be stopping them neither, the height and weight/strength differential will kill him, same with Hawkins. Your best defender is Gilmore, and it will be a lovely match-up to watch him go up against Robinson, but at the end of the day, Robinson will win the match-up, because he's more versatile, he can beat you on the offensive, and defensive side of the ball, Robinson is a GREAT defender if you don't know by the way, he'll shut down any of your bigs.

Don't act like I only depend on MJ/Scottie. I built a team around them, a TEAM mind you. Jordan and the Bulls dominated the NBA without THIS kind of talent. I have rebounders and defenders in Reed and Gilmore, who are also capable of scoring given the opportunity, but again, not the primary role. Monroe will keep the defense honest. Monroe will make any guard he is against work on both ends of the court. Lenny can lead the second unit with scorers in World and Aguirre, who are surrounded by a hustle player in Connie and a stud like Issel. If Connie doesn't work out, I can bring out McGinnis, a Pacer legend.

Honestly, your team IS all MJ/Scottie, all you have is great ROLE PLAYERS around the greatness of Jordan and Pippen. you don't have a great distributor on your team like a Chris Paul, you don't have a dominant big man like a Robinson.

Also, I watch Kobe Bryant play alot, might've heard about him. Shane Battier couldn't stop Kobe, don't act like he can step into the ring with some of the leagues best of all time and stop them.

I've never heard of Kobe Bryant.

Kenyon Martin is just as effective as that damn Phoenix Gorilla in this matchup, I'm sorry K-Mart. I watched K-Mart struggle against the likes of Mark Madsen, Slava Medvedenko, and Samaki Walker during the '03 finals (If I'm correct on the year). Good luck with these guys, and we dance better too.

That's why I didn't mention Kenyon.

-Look, these are obviously just my opinions, and how I feel, and to me I just feel like Huevons has the better team overall. & I'm not going to disrespect you in anyway, unless you disrespect me first and I just have to defend myself.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

Want some tissues?

I've hit some buttons with you, tonight.

Mamba wins, again.

Mamba you are being a total dick.

There were certain buttons here you didn't need to push. To you it may have been a joke, but to me it isn't, so respect that just as much as I've respected you on this site.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

didn't see this earlier, but okay, "I found some of this funny."



I love Earl & Reed because they were Knickerbockers, but honestly I don't think any of your PG's will be able to match up against Paul I love Lenny Wilkins as a head coach, but seriously? He had wonderful D? How come he was never selected on the all-defensive team once then? And Monroe's career average for apg is 3.9 good luck trying to find time on sharing the ball and scoring between Monroe & Jordan. And to me, I just think that Paul's speed and quickness will kill them to catch up with him, and also to me the kind of guy Paul is, I think that he can lead a team to victory no matter what, he can have a 2 point game (unlikely) but he will drop 15 assists and be the reason why his team won. And when that doesn't work I just think he has the ability to take over the game and beat another team himself. Lookit the shitty cast he has now compared to an Amare, D12, McHale & Robinson, you don't think he'll find them at any moment of the game and have them score easy buckets? & also if you don't know, Paul has GREAT hands, he'll get couple on ball steals since Monroe loves to dribble a lot. By the way, Gilbert has great hands also.

Kevin Mchale will be capable to stop Reed, this shouldn't even be a discussion...Reed has a career total of 21 shotblocks, your telling me he "wouldn't be getting dunked on his head"? "homie" he'll be getting dunked on in the post constantly, are you kidding me? Amare, Dwight and Robinson are no softies in the post. Dan Issel won't be stopping them neither, the height and weight/strength differential will kill him, same with Hawkins. Your best defender is Gilmore, and it will be a lovely match-up to watch him go up against Robinson, but at the end of the day, Robinson will win the match-up, because he's more versatile, he can beat you on the offensive, and defensive side of the ball, Robinson is a GREAT defender if you don't know by the way, he'll shut down any of your bigs.



Honestly, your team IS all MJ/Scottie, all you have is great ROLE PLAYERS around the greatness of Jordan and Pippen. you don't have a great distributor on your team like a Chris Paul, you don't have a dominant big man like a Robinson.



I've never heard of Kobe Bryant.



That's why I didn't mention Kenyon.

-Look, these are obviously just my opinions, and how I feel, and to me I just feel like Huevons has the better team overall. & I'm not going to disrespect you in anyway, unless you disrespect me first and I just have to defend myself.

I never meant anything to be disrespectful. I like to keep all this to just this topic in general. If that wasn't evident, then I apologize for not making that clear beforehand.

 

[Mamba]

Mamba you are being a total dick.

There were certain buttons here you didn't need to push. To you it may have been a joke, but to me it isn't, so respect that just as much as I've respected you on this site.

Ask your girl for some midol, tampons, and chocolate.

Melo was a key catalyst for team USA; he can play with a star stacked team and be a leader on it.

 

[huevonkiller]

MJ also never had anyone good around him in the 80's, Pippen was still young and developing into that great sidekick. The funny thing is you can say that about so many of your players too in a weaker less dominant ERA.....Arenas, Melo, Battier, Kenyon Martin, Paul, VC, Deron, David Robinson(in his prime),etc. The problem is that you don't have better bigs, you are just assuming you have better bigs. You are throwing out their prime years because they were in the ABA. If you want to throw out ABA years, throw out Melo's Olympic experience that Mamba keeps bringing up because he was playing Iran and China, hell even Argentina and Spain aren't even that great compared to an NBA team.

Yeah the ABA was indeed weaker. Melo also competed against the same pathetic competition his peers did and he dominated to the same fashion and gave up the ball, so that was a bad comparison because everyone was under the same situation in the Olympics. DRob never got a chance to play in the ABA or at a ferocious pace, and MJ never beat this team.

And your turnover thing got trashed aside easily.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

Ask your girl for some midol, tampons, and chocolate.

Melo was a key catalyst for team USA; he can play with a star stacked team and be a leader on it.

Are you gonna stop?

 

[J_Ray]

Right...

Pippen has a higher turnover rate compared to Pierce. Paul is the best passer in this matchup, and Carter's turnover rate at 9.8% is amazingly low.

His team revolves around Jordan and Pippen while Pierce and Carter are only secondary players, so their stats would be irrelevant since Paul and Robinson are the main guys you said your offense would go through. The way you are stating it is that Carter and Pierce are practically spot up shooters since that's what Paul does to players around him. That's why Hornets surround him with shooters because he creates and kicks.

 

[huevonkiller]

didn't see this earlier, but okay, "I found some of this funny."



I love Earl & Reed because they were Knickerbockers, but honestly I don't think any of your PG's will be able to match up against Paul I love Lenny Wilkins as a head coach, but seriously? He had wonderful D? How come he was never selected on the all-defensive team once then? And Monroe's career average for apg is 3.9 good luck trying to find time on sharing the ball and scoring between Monroe & Jordan. And to me, I just think that Paul's speed and quickness will kill them to catch up with him, and also to me the kind of guy Paul is, I think that he can lead a team to victory no matter what, he can have a 2 point game (unlikely) but he will drop 15 assists and be the reason why his team won. And when that doesn't work I just think he has the ability to take over the game and beat another team himself. Lookit the shitty cast he has now compared to an Amare, D12, McHale & Robinson, you don't think he'll find them at any moment of the game and have them score easy buckets? & also if you don't know, Paul has GREAT hands, he'll get couple on ball steals since Monroe loves to dribble a lot. By the way, Gilbert has great hands also.

Kevin Mchale will be capable to stop Reed, this shouldn't even be a discussion...Reed has a career total of 21 shotblocks, your telling me he "wouldn't be getting dunked on his head"? "homie" he'll be getting dunked on in the post constantly, are you kidding me? Amare, Dwight and Robinson are no softies in the post. Dan Issel won't be stopping them neither, the height and weight/strength differential will kill him, same with Hawkins. Your best defender is Gilmore, and it will be a lovely match-up to watch him go up against Robinson, but at the end of the day, Robinson will win the match-up, because he's more versatile, he can beat you on the offensive, and defensive side of the ball, Robinson is a GREAT defender if you don't know by the way, he'll shut down any of your bigs.



Honestly, your team IS all MJ/Scottie, all you have is great ROLE PLAYERS around the greatness of Jordan and Pippen. you don't have a great distributor on your team like a Chris Paul, you don't have a dominant big man like a Robinson.



I've never heard of Kobe Bryant.



That's why I didn't mention Kenyon.

-Look, these are obviously just my opinions, and how I feel, and to me I just feel like Huevons has the better team overall. & I'm not going to disrespect you in anyway, unless you disrespect me first and I just have to defend myself.

Wow well thanks for the effort, that was nice.

cpaw is in love with Martin's defense, I doubt DW would bring that up though.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

Wow well thanks for the effort, that was nice.

cpaw is in love with Martin's defense, I doubt DW would bring that up though.

I actually do know that cpaw is in love with Kenyon Martin. But thanks for the shoutout anyway.

 

[huevonkiller]

I actually do know that cpaw is in love with Kenyon Martin. But thanks for the shoutout anyway.

It is total hypocrisy though, because cpaw knows Martin's career quite well but you wouldn't point something like that out when you just trashed the guy. Martin is quite a solid defender.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

It is total hypocrisy though, because cpaw knows Martin's career quite well but you wouldn't point something like that out when you just trashed the guy. Martin is quite a solid defender.

I trashed him. cpaw didn't. It's not hypocrisy. JFizz told cpaw about this matchup, so I went to talk to cpaw about it to get his opinion on it. I posted two of his opinions here and I've copy and pasted alot of the stuff said here to him as well since he isn't going to be coming to the site anytime soon.

How is me trashing K-Mart, and cpaw liking K-Mart equal hypocrisy?

 

[huevonkiller]

I trashed him. cpaw didn't. It's not hypocrisy. JFizz told cpaw about this matchup, so I went to talk to cpaw about it to get his opinion on it. I posted two of his opinions here and I've copy and pasted alot of the stuff said here to him as well since he isn't going to be coming to the site anytime soon.

How is me trashing K-Mart, and cpaw liking K-Mart equal hypocrisy?

So cpaw knows jack about Martin's defense but you do? Not all your cpaw points help you out exclusively, you shouldn't have wasted your time on that.

 

[JUNIOR MINT]

I never meant anything to be disrespectful. I like to keep all this to just this topic in general. If that wasn't evident, then I apologize for not making that clear beforehand.

nah dude, you didn't, I was just saying so it wouldn't get out of hand or anything.

 

[J_Ray]

Yeah the ABA was indeed weaker. Melo also competed against the same pathetic competition his peers did and he dominated to the same fashion and gave up the ball, so that was a bad comparison because everyone was under the same situation in the Olympics. DRob never got a chance to play in the ABA or at a ferocious pace, and MJ never beat this team.

And your turnover thing got trashed aside easily.

Yeah, and then he came to the NBA and put up 22 & 13......LMAO ya he dominated cuz they were playing total scrubs, Iran...China...Argentina...all of these teams are still made up of NBA bench players or EURO scrubs. The lone exception for talent is Spain, and they're still 2 NBA studs and a bunch of bench players. You could Travis Outlaw in Melo's spot and he would produce, so Olympics means nothing. MJ never got a chance to play this team either, so that goes either way. My turnover thing never got trashed, you just threw it aside easily cuz you simply couldn't answer. Everything you couldn't answer, you just ignored, or tried changing topics. You obviously have a biased opinion and have no idea about most players outside of this ERA. All you have is that "they played @ a ferocious pace" or "He played in the ABA", who the hell cares, they still played basketball. The things you are bringing up are very little factors in the fact if the guy can play or not, he still was good at certain things. So it was cool trying to help you come out of that box, but it's just pointless.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

nah dude, you didn't, I was just saying so it wouldn't get out of hand or anything.

It got out of hand when I got disrespected (not by you).

 

[huevonkiller]

Yeah, and then he came to the NBA and put up 22 & 13......LMAO ya he dominated cuz they were playing total scrubs, Iran...China...Argentina...all of these teams are still made up of NBA bench players or EURO scrubs. The lone exception for talent is Spain, and they're still 2 NBA studs and a bunch of bench players. You could Travis Outlaw in Melo's spot and he would produce, so Olympics means nothing. MJ never got a chance to play this team either, so that goes either way. My turnover thing never got trashed, you just threw it aside easily cuz you simply couldn't answer. Everything you couldn't answer, you just ignored, or tried changing topics. You obviously have a biased opinion and have no idea about most players outside of this ERA. All you have is that "they played @ a ferocious pace" or "He played in the ABA", who the hell cares, they still played basketball. The things you are bringing up are very little factors in the fact if the guy can play or not, he still was good at certain things. So it was cool trying to help you come out of that box, but it's just pointless.

Dude, 13 RPG is about a 17 TRB%, that doesn't mean jack. 22 PPG doesn't make him a scorer on McHale or Rob's level.

As for Melo, his teammates played the SAME garbage; Melo was on par or better. Questioning his chemistry makes no sense.

Going into a double overtime game will make anyone look better.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

So cpaw knows jack about Martin's defense but you do? Not all your cpaw points help you out exclusively, you shouldn't have wasted your time on that.

Through our conversation K-Mart's defense was never mentioned.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

And I'm off for the night.

 

[huevonkiller]

Through our conversation K-Mart's defense was never mentioned.

Kenyon Martin is just as effective as that damn Phoenix Gorilla in this matchup, I'm sorry K-Mart. I watched K-Mart struggle against the likes of Mark Madsen, Slava Medvedenko, and Samaki Walker during the '03 finals (If I'm correct on the year). Good luck with these guys, and we dance better too.

Dude, what does this mean then? If I am incorrect, then of course show me how I misunderstood.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

Dude, what does this mean then? If I am incorrect, then of course show me how I misunderstood.

I meant cpaw and I's conversation. Not ours (me and you).