OT Charles Barkley wants NBA to pull 2017 All-Star Game out of Charlotte

[3RA1N1AC]

CHINESE ONES DO ALL THE TIME.

soul brutha too beau-coup

 

[BlazerCaravan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism

Currently, there are numerous possible explanations of the cause of transsexualism, including genetics, brain structure, brain function, and prenatal androgen exposure. Other theories have proposed linking the cause to psychological and behavioral reasons. These theories are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

More in depth at the link.

My reductionist take: Genitals are hardware, Sexual Orientation is firmware, and Gender Identification is a deep, kernal-level, software setting.

Point is, who gives a fuck why they are the way they are; anybody with a bit of humanity and empathy can make room for their happiness in the world.

 

[Sedatedfork]

And babies are a Trojan horse virus!

 

[Denny Crane]

My reductionist take: Genitals are hardware, Sexual Orientation is firmware, and Gender Identification is a deep, kernal-level, software setting.

Point is, who gives a fuck why they are the way they are; anybody with a bit of humanity and empathy can make room for their happiness in the world.

I figure at puberty, hetero guys look at a playboy magazine and get an erection. Gay guys look at a playboy magazine and don't. Playgirl works tho. Maybe we all knew at an earlier age than puberty, but that's the gist. Two people growing up in the USA in the same neighborhood with the same school and teachers and similar environments and one is gay the other not. Doesn't seem like environment or choice or anything like that to me. Born that way.

Regardless of whether you agree with this, one of the most important Natural Rights is that we all have a right to pursue happiness. What a gay person or trans person does is their pursuit of happiness, either way. And it doesn't affect mine. As I see it, if anyone is affected by what someone else's orientation is, they're the one with the problem and it isn't caused by anyone but themselves.

I had a woman who worked for me once. She was an outstanding assistant and great at her job. She saved up her money while working for me and paid for her sex change operation (male -> female). I more than gave her my blessing, I gave her appropriate time off to have the surgery and recover and kept her job open. Why wouldn't I? She was an outstanding assistant and great at her job. I didn't want someone else to do the job. When she did come back to work, she sat on one of those inflatable donut things until she healed enough that it wasn't needed. She didn't have to come back that soon, but I appreciated it.

At company christmas parties, we'd have a band and dancing. I danced with her a few times. Why not? It didn't give me some disease, cause me pain in any way, and I really don't give a shit if it bothered anyone else. We saw each other at work all day and knew each other as friends. Why not?

As for the bathroom thing, if a trans fellow is using the bathroom and you're concerned about your privacy, wait until they leave or whatever. The person is no more likely to peek at you taking a piss than anyone who's straight. You're already sharing the bathroom with gay people. I mean, WTF?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I figure at puberty, hetero guys look at a playboy magazine and get an erection. Gay guys look at a playboy magazine and don't. Playgirl works tho. Maybe we all knew at an earlier age than puberty, but that's the gist. Two people growing up in the USA in the same neighborhood with the same school and teachers and similar environments and one is gay the other not. Doesn't seem like environment or choice or anything like that to me. Born that way.

Regardless of whether you agree with this, one of the most important Natural Rights is that we all have a right to pursue happiness. What a gay person or trans person does is their pursuit of happiness, either way. And it doesn't affect mine. As I see it, if anyone is affected by what someone else's orientation is, they're the one with the problem and it isn't caused by anyone but themselves.

I had a woman who worked for me once. She was an outstanding assistant and great at her job. She saved up her money while working for me and paid for her sex change operation (male -> female). I more than gave her my blessing, I gave her appropriate time off to have the surgery and recover and kept her job open. Why wouldn't I? She was an outstanding assistant and great at her job. I didn't want someone else to do the job. When she did come back to work, she sat on one of those inflatable donut things until she healed enough that it wasn't needed. She didn't have to come back that soon, but I appreciated it.

At company christmas parties, we'd have a band and dancing. I danced with her a few times. Why not? It didn't give me some disease, cause me pain in any way, and I really don't give a shit if it bothered anyone else. We saw each other at work all day and knew each other as friends. Why not?

As for the bathroom thing, if a trans fellow is using the bathroom and you're concerned about your privacy, wait until they leave or whatever. The person is no more likely to peek at you taking a piss than anyone who's straight. You're already sharing the bathroom with gay people. I mean, WTF?

Great stuff, Denny.

Eventually, and this is where the trans movement really is in a spot where the gay movement was about 30 years ago, society will get to a point where that story will be "I had a man who worked for me once. He was an outstanding assistant and great at his job. He saved up his money while working for me and paid for his reassignment operation."

(This is not a jab at you; perhaps your assistant preferred she/her pronouns?)

There's some terminology and jargon and ways of seeing people that don't happen by default that in a couple of generations hopefully will. I have a couple of friends who are trans, and they admit there's a lot to ask people who haven't had any exposure to consider as part of letting them pursue their happiness. Hell, a lot of the community is actually completely closeted (again, like the gays of the 70's/80s) because it's just too much overhead and risk to deal with.

But as people grow used to the idea of folks existing outside the binary defaults, it will stop being a big deal. Trans folks in non-western cultures often have levels of respect paid to them that go back to prehistoric times. A lot of accepting the LGBTQ community is re-discovering that acceptance that used to be there before large political structures fucked it all up for them.

 

[Denny Crane]

Great stuff, Denny.

Eventually, and this is where the trans movement really is in a spot where the gay movement was about 30 years ago, society will get to a point where that story will be "I had a man who worked for me once. He was an outstanding assistant and great at his job. He saved up his money while working for me and paid for his reassignment operation."

(This is not a jab at you; perhaps your assistant preferred she/her pronouns?)

There's some terminology and jargon and ways of seeing people that don't happen by default that in a couple of generations hopefully will. I have a couple of friends who are trans, and they admit there's a lot to ask people who haven't had any exposure to consider as part of letting them pursue their happiness. Hell, a lot of the community is actually completely closeted (again, like the gays of the 70's/80s) because it's just too much overhead and risk to deal with.

But as people grow used to the idea of folks existing outside the binary defaults, it will stop being a big deal. Trans folks in non-western cultures often have levels of respect paid to them that go back to prehistoric times. A lot of accepting the LGBTQ community is re-discovering that acceptance that used to be there before large political structures fucked it all up for them.

She dressed and looked like a woman. She had breasts, was taking estrogen and whatever else they do. She talked in a woman's voice. Why wouldn't I call her a woman? I think the rule should be "it is what it looks like." It referring to a human being, not meant to offend.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

She dressed and looked like a woman. She had breasts, was taking estrogen and whatever else they do. She talked in a woman's voice. Why wouldn't I call her a woman? I think the rule should be "it is what it looks like." It referring to a human being, not meant to offend.

EDIT: THIS ENTIRE POST WAS BASED ON A MIS-READING OF DENNY'S POST (I THOUGHT HIS EMPLOYEE WAS FTM, NOT MTF). I AM A MORON.

Unfortunately, you don't get to make the rules; it's not your culture.

Part of the courtesy and respect involved in interacting with a trans person is addressing the identity which doesn't always match the appearance; this is an imperfect analogy, but it's like bowing as part of formally meeting a Japanese person; you could demand a handshake, or assume a handshake, but it's generally agreed that it's respectful to bow if they prefer a bow.

Years ago this wasn't even a thing trans people felt they could ask others to do, so it might not have been a thing when you and your assistant were interacting. But nowadays, it's a thing.

Anyway, if a person tells you their preferred gender pronouns, the expectation is that you'd use them. If they spent the money to go through gender reassignment surgery, chances are they preferred he/him (but who knows?). I do know that, for a lot of trans people, others using their preferred pronuns around them makes them feel good, and that not using them, even by accident, can make them feel bad to varying degrees. Some trans folks have some dark psychological shit just under the surface, waiting to eat them alive if the world doesn't accept them. A self-hatred born from knowing exactly the difference between what people (including themselves) see and what they feel inside.

It's just a courtesy, like calling a coworker by their preferred nickname. It feels like a big deal at first, a bigger deal than the nickname thing, but it becomes an easy for you over time, and benefits the trans person a lot (because it is usually a big deal to them); they have something they own and control, and when that's respected by others it's reaffirming.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

EDIT: THIS ENTIRE POST WAS BASED ON A MIS-READING OF DENNY'S POST (I THOUGHT HIS EMPLOYEE WAS FTM, NOT MTF). I AM A MORON.

Again, all that wasn't to diminish your actions; you are a more tolerant and accepting boss than many out there, and I'm sure that's appreciated. And also if your assistant didn't care about the pronoun thing or try to correct you, then it wasn't a big deal. Everyone is different, and should be afforded that courtesy individually.

But what you did as a boss was super-cool. It's kind of sad that "treating a trans person like a human being" needs to be recognized as super-cool, but that's where they are right now. It's early days for their acceptance still.

 

[Denny Crane]

Unfortunately, you don't get to make the rules; it's not your culture.

Part of the courtesy and respect involved in interacting with a trans person is addressing the identity which doesn't always match the appearance; this is an imperfect analogy, but it's like bowing as part of formally meeting a Japanese person; you could demand a handshake, or assume a handshake, but it's generally agreed that it's respectful to bow if they prefer a bow.

Years ago this wasn't even a thing trans people felt they could ask others to do, so it might not have been a thing when you and your assistant were interacting. But nowadays, it's a thing.

Anyway, if a person tells you their preferred gender pronouns, the expectation is that you'd use them. If they spent the money to go through gender reassignment surgery, chances are they preferred he/him (but who knows?). I do know that, for a lot of trans people, others using their preferred pronuns around them makes them feel good, and that not using them, even by accident, can make them feel bad to varying degrees. Some trans folks have some dark psychological shit just under the surface, waiting to eat them alive if the world doesn't accept them. A self-hatred born from knowing exactly the difference between what people (including themselves) see and what they feel inside.

It's just a courtesy, like calling a coworker by their preferred nickname. It feels like a big deal at first, a bigger deal than the nickname thing, but it becomes an easy for you over time, and benefits the trans person a lot (because it is usually a big deal to them); they have something they own and control, and when that's respected by others it's reaffirming.

Yep, it's common sense and simple courtesy.

Maybe a better rule is "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Yep, it's common sense and simple courtesy.

Maybe a better rule is "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."

Indeed; no matter how it's expressed (I like "Be excellent to each other" personally), it's powerful if you take time to think about how it NEEDS to be applied, and how it isn't.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

She dressed and looked like a woman. She had breasts, was taking estrogen and whatever else they do. She talked in a woman's voice. Why wouldn't I call her a woman? I think the rule should be "it is what it looks like." It referring to a human being, not meant to offend.

Oh shit; I mis-read your aside as (female -> male). Totally my fault!

 

[Denny Crane]

Oh shit; I mis-read your aside as (female -> male). Totally my fault!

Yeah, she looked and acted like a woman, and had the operation. It never occurred to me in the 2+ years we worked together that she was a guy in drag. Guy in drag implies the person dresses like a guy some of the time (probably most of the time).

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Yeah, she looked and acted like a woman, and had the operation. It never occurred to me in the 2+ years we worked together that she was a guy in drag. Guy in drag implies the person dresses like a guy some of the time (probably most of the time).

Some trans women pass well, some definitely do not. Both situations deserve the same courtesy (I know you know this, but I'm just re-stating it for the cheap seats)

 

[BlazerCaravan]

And babies are a Trojan horse virus!

A ransomware phishing scam.

 

[MarAzul]

I can't imagine, in the year 2016

I can, I never ask.

 

[MarAzul]

You're already sharing the bathroom with gay people. I mean, WTF?

So what are you going on about? You're comment doesn't seem to have anything to do with the law NC passed.
As far as I know, homosexual people have been using the same bathroom with other of their sex since restrooms, and that isn't changing.

 

[Denny Crane]

So what are you going on about? You're comment doesn't seem to have anything to do with the law NC passed.
As far as I know, homosexual people have been using the same bathroom with other of their sex since restrooms, and that isn't changing.

Exactly. So if that doesn't bother you, then neither should a trans person using the same bathroom.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/08/europe/vatican-pope-family/index.html

Pope agrees with Barkley.

 

[Sedatedfork]

People just want to go to the bathroom. Let's not make it any more complicated than it needs to be. Go wherever you feel comfortable, do your business, and please flush. That's all I ask.

 

[MarAzul]

Exactly. So if that doesn't bother you, then neither should a trans person using the same bathroom.

Yeah! I don't even know how I would know, if some gal wanted and did use to use the mens restroom. I am sure she wouldn't be using the urinal, but hell, I still wouldn't know unless she got it on my shoes too.

I think rub comes when some dude wants to use the restroom with your grand daughter. It doesn't set right you know! After all some rest rooms are assigned either sex, and some are assigned by sex, Men, Women. It does seem like this is within the scope of lawful business of a State Legislature. I would say the 10th amendment covers this area and North Carolina has acted accordingly.
Charles Barkley seems to be out of his league here. He may disagree with the action but that is the nature of laws passed by majority opinion.

It doesn't seem right at all, that and extremely small minority of people, Trans-gender should have any power to over ride the majority represented by the legislature's vote.
There is nothing anti gay or anti anything in this action. The law also prohibits me from using the girls room. I don't consider that anti MarAzul, just another of many rules in society set by the majority.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah! I don't even know how I would know, if some gal wanted and did use to use the mens restroom. I am sure she wouldn't be using the urinal, but hell, I still wouldn't know unless she got it on my shoes too.

I think rub comes when some dude wants to use the restroom with your grand daughter. It doesn't set right you know! After all some rest rooms are assigned either sex, and some are assigned by sex, Men, Women. It does seem like this is within the scope of lawful business of a State Legislature. I would say the 10th amendment covers this area and North Carolina has acted accordingly.
Charles Barkley seems to be out of his league here. He may disagree with the action but that is the nature of laws passed by majority opinion.

It doesn't seem right at all, that and extremely small minority of people, Trans-gender should have any power to over ride the majority represented by the legislature's vote.
There is nothing anti gay or anti anything in this action. The law also prohibits me from using the girls room. I don't consider that anti MarAzul, just another of many rules in society set by the majority.

A female would use the women's room. She'd go sit in the stall and pee, even if she could use a urinal.

Your daughter has nothing to worry about.

 

[Sedatedfork]

I think the only time I have seen it as an issue is these weird forms of protest...

http://komonews.com/news/local/man-found-in-womens-locker-room-cites-new-transgender-bathroom-rule

 

[crandc]

Bathroom obsession is nothing new. Remember Miss Hillie in The Help saying the maids had to use outhouses because "they have different germs"? During the fight against legal segregation, that was an actual argument, not only would white people be affected by "black diseases" (but not the reverse since whites were so clean and health), white girls and women would be attacked by violent black girls and women in desegregated restrooms. During the fight for Equal Rights Amendment an "argument" against equality was that we would have unisex toilets, you know, like Greyhound buses and airlines, and men would use them to assault women. No one could cite anyone being attacked in an airport bathroom but facts were unimportant, bigotry was. There has not been one single instance of a transgender person assaulting or raping a cisgender person in a public restroom. The opposite, sadly, is not true; transpeople have been assaulted. And there is nothing in the law that stops a man from walking into the ladies' room to assault someone, except that assault is already against the law.

How the hell do you enforce this? Genital checks in every public restroom, courtesy of the party of small government and personal responsibility? The cops have already said they have no plans to do so. When asked, state legislators admitted they had no enforcement plan. They just wanted bigotry on the record.

The law does much more. It allows anyone to refuse service or employment to any gay or trans person if their "sincere beliefs" tell them to. There can be no penalty for discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity/expression. Municipalities that had such laws have found them repealed.

While discrimination based on race, religion, national origin, sex, age, or disability is still illegal in North Carolina due to federal law, this law prohibits those who faced such discrimination from filing claims in state court. Federal court is slower and more expensive. A woman whose age/disability claim was under jurisdiction at the time the law passed had her claim dismissed, not on the merits, but because such cases are now prohibited.

The law also prohibits any city from raising the minimum wage. What that has to do with keeping girls from being raped in bathrooms I don't know.

Charles is right. So is Bruce Springsteen. So is PayPal.
It's nothing but bigotry. Hate for hate's sake. A "solution" to a nonexistent problem for the sole purpose of demonizing gays and transpeople.

Religious freedom does not mean you can force others to live by the twisted beliefs you call god.

 

[MarAzul]

A female would use the women's room. She'd go sit in the stall and pee, even if she could use a urinal.

Your daughter has nothing to worry about.

Then I ask you again. What are you going on about?

 

[kingslayer]

All these so-called "Religious Freedom"/"Bathroom Bills" that keep popping up in red states are nothing more than temper tantrums resulting from the Obergefell marriage equality ruling. The bigoted religious right are beginning to realize their ability to discriminate so freely is being threatened and are acting accordingly. Wonder what they'll try next once these pieces of legislation are inevitably declared unconstitutional.

 

[Sedatedfork]

No one could cite anyone being attacked in an airport bathroom but facts were unimportant, bigotry was. There has not been one single instance of a transgender person assaulting or raping a cisgender person in a public restroom. The opposite, sadly, is not true; transpeople have been assaulted. And there is nothing in the law that stops a man from walking into the ladies' room to assault someone, except that assault is already against the law.

If someone wants to assault someone of a different gender in a bathroom, I really don't think a law about bathroom use is going to stop them. It is a contrived fear that bathroom laws will cause an increase in assaults.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

More Republicans Lawmakers Have Been Arrested For Bathroom Misconduct Than Trans People -

See more at: http://www.thegailygrind.com/2016/0...nduct-than-trans-people/#sthash.ElhmEeis.dpuf