Politics CHARLIE KIRK SHOT IN UTAH (1 Viewer)

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julius said:
Hold the fucking phone...these morons saw "TRN" and defaulted to "Oh that must be trans related!!!!"

My god...we are seriously being run by fucking morons in this country. Like legit, these are the people who are running things.
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Same people who were freaking out about Black Lives Matter starting the huge fires we had because they heard BLM (bureau of land management) on the scanners.

Fucking imbeciles.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
All signs point to Israel.
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Hmm.. so
Here we go again?
Truth? Lies? Facts?

Interests? Propgandas? Narratives being pushed?

Accountability for conspiracies based on volume of people wanting to believe a narrative - unbeatable.

As I said before: Division and extremism galore.

Lets make people hate.
Lets hate on Israel, lets hate on left Democrats, lets hate on MAGAS, lets hate on Utah Jazz..

Phatsguyrule complained about spreading lies, while the thread became a plethora and room for many conspirecies ideations...
Conspiracies are plain theories that once one sticks and hard to dissproof becomes set in stone as if true. Where in fact it just isnt.

Does god exist? Can you prove it? Can you disprove it?

Cant do either? Great we can now divide the people using this god thing.

Logical thinking is very important here.
Once you learn to identify these types of theories (conspiracies) that cannot be proved or falsified - you see through the propaganda and narrative building from those with interests.

The problem is - once values allign with a side - critical thinking is demishied and the world tend to be viewed via a biased critical thinking glasses...

And that is why I expect dark times to come..
 
2Fluffy4U said:
Hmm.. so
Here we go again?
Truth? Lies? Facts?

Interests? Propgandas? Narratives being pushed?

Accountability for conspiracies based on volume of people wanting to believe a narrative - unbeatable.

As I said before: Division and extremism galore.

Lets make people hate.
Lets hate on Israel, lets hate on left Democrats, lets hate on MAGAS, lets hate on Utah Jazz..

Phatsguyrule complained about spreading lies, while the thread became a plethora and room for many conspirecies ideations...
Conspiracies are plain theories that once one sticks and hard to dissproof becomes set in stone as if true. Where in fact it just isnt.

Does god exist? Can you prove it? Can you disprove it?

Cant do either? Great we can now divide the people using this god thing.

Logical thinking is very important here.
Once you learn to identify these types of theories (conspiracies) that cannot be proved or falsified - you see through the propaganda and narrative building from those with interests.

The problem is - once values allign with a side - critical thinking is demishied and the world tend to be viewed via a biased critical thinking glasses...

And that is why I expect dark times to come..
Click to expand...
Nobody here is spreading lies, or trying to convince others of harmful falsehoods for personal gain. Nobody is claiming to know what happened.

We are only having a discussion about something that recently happened, waiting for more evidence.
 
Everything Beagle said:
Not morons, stochastic terrorists. If they can get away with motivating people to murder trans people they will. I’m glad they got called out on it so quickly.
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They might have been called out, but it won't matter. Any excuse to be able to hate someone for being different, they'll grab onto it and bury their head into the sand and continue hating and targeting "others".
 
Phatguysrule said:
Same people who were freaking out about Black Lives Matter starting the huge fires we had because they heard BLM (bureau of land management) on the scanners.

Fucking imbeciles.
Click to expand...

It's like the McDonalds coffee lawsuit that people talk about without knowing any of the actual real story.
 
Does this even move the needle to help discourse of gun safety? It happened to one of their own.

I hope so.
 
Strenuus said:
Does this even move the needle to help discourse of gun safety? It happened to one of their own.

I hope so.
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Well, if anything, this is what anti-gun people have wanted. They used a bolt action. One shot and one kill. This is exactly what they have wanted! Not a mass shooting. I don't think there's many laws that would have prevented that.
 
Natebishop3 said:
So I had heard of this guy before but I had never watched him before. He's a hard person to watch.
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If you're talking about Kirk, yes, he was very difficult to listen to because he tries to come off much smarter than he is. Actually, many of the people in power right now do that.

It's maddening how many of those in charge of MAGA are walking examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
 
julius said:
If you're talking about Kirk, yes, he was very difficult to listen to because he tries to come off much smarter than he is. Actually, many of the people in power right now do that.

It's maddening how many of those in charge of MAGA are walking examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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I don't like the illusion of "just trying to have a conversation" when they repeatedly cut people off, act combative, and talk down to people. That's not a conversation. But it's not surprising because that's how Trump talks.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I don't like the illusion of "just trying to have a conversation" when they repeatedly cut people off, act combative, and talk down to people. That's not a conversation. But it's not surprising because that's how Trump talks.
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1oo%

And then they project everything.

Yeah, there are lefts who are a bit loony, but they pale in comparison to the right. Both in quantity and veracity.

They just figured they'll talk louder and faster and that's all they have to do to be correct.

(tbf, I don't like how Dean Winther does that when he gets donations from the people watching his show, and he's trying to just mock the person he's talking to. Granted, most of the time the person he's talking to will say incredibly stupid shit that doesn't deserve the oxygen it requires to spew it)
 
Strenuus said:
Does this even move the needle to help discourse of gun safety? It happened to one of their own.

I hope so.
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No. They are going to blame the left. Even if it turns out that the person is a registered Republican. They'll just say the guy was gay or trans! So obviously left.

None if them are actually interested in curbing gun violence anyway. It's far more profitable to argue about it.

There will be no meaningful movement on gun rights unless fair elections are a thing of the past.
 
Phatguysrule said:
No. They are going to blame the left. Even if it turns out that the person is a registered Republican. They'll just say the guy was gay or trans! So obviously left.

There will be no meaningful movement on gun rights unless fair elections are a thing of the past.
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Let's say the guy is a Republican. It wont change their minds, because they've already made up their minds of his political affiliation.

But imho, him being a Republican doesn't mean all Republicans are bad...but they will all say that if he IS a liberal/trans/whatever scapegoat they're going after now, then EVERYONE on the left is that way.
 
julius said:
Let's say the guy is a Republican. It wont change their minds, because they've already made up their minds of his political affiliation.

But imho, him being a Republican doesn't mean all Republicans are bad...but they will all say that if he IS a liberal/trans/whatever scapegoat they're going after now, then EVERYONE on the left is that way.
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Agreed
 
crandc said:
Why is this both sider rush? I read sympathy and condemnation of violence from Biden, Obama, Sanders, Ptitzker, Newsom among others. I remember the jokes from Republicans when Paul Pelosi was attacked with a hammer and Melissa Horman killed.

Both sides don't.
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Yeah, I don't not getting the both side stuff on this.

I can't recall any Dem leader spewing propaganda about locking up or harming people. Or celebrating acts of violence.

This is a MAGA/Q thing
 
Phatguysrule said:
Nobody here is spreading lies, or trying to convince others of harmful falsehoods for personal gain. Nobody is claiming to know what happened.

We are only having a discussion about something that recently happened, waiting for more evidence.
Click to expand...

"All signs point to Israel"

A single post in this forum.

1. Is a lie. Check.
(All? Signs)
Maybe some. Maybe few. nope - All signs.

2. Trying to convice others - check.

3. Seems to me saying something like that is in actuallity claiming to know what happened (without actually engaging in debate proposing what you are basing your claim upon).

Yeah - if I follow cadance brown who hates Israel - her signs will direct the blame to Israel, just the same if I follow some Maga media person the blame will be pointed to left woke democrats. Again - all I am saying this point blame/fingers at sides right now is the exact thing that lead to decisive and hatefull discussion.
A petry dish for conspiracies.
I wish not to be included in this narrative, but I will point out when someone is taking it too far.
If someone here said

All signs lead to Maga
All signs lead to Woke left
All signs lead to Qatar
All signs lead to liberals
All signs lead to queers

I would still call it out. Hope for it to be called out by others.
I happen to be Israeli so the specific post resonated with me a bit more..
 
Phatguysrule said:
Only if both sides are willing to listen to the facts. If one side is refusing to acknowledge the superiority of the findings of scientific professionals over their own suspicions than they are a waste of time. They aren't willing to have a conversation in good faith. Or they are incapable of doing so.
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open and honest dialogue… Must be from all sides…
Pretty sure i said the those things?

But the left does not have open and honest dialogue with aggressive restraint. Neither does the right. But let’s not act like the left doesn't rage.
Ive been told to fuck off for simply trying to engage in a conversation about abortion. Simply asking questions and told to fuck off. Im pro abortion with limits! That is not open and honest dialogue and is not aggressive restraint.

Of course NONE of this is an answer if we aren't able to observe our own behaviors with honesty and modesty.
None of us are perfect, but self accountability for ones behavior is essential for open and honest dialogue to take place.
 
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2Fluffy4U said:
Hmm.. so
Here we go again?
Truth? Lies? Facts?

Interests? Propgandas? Narratives being pushed?

Accountability for conspiracies based on volume of people wanting to believe a narrative - unbeatable.

As I said before: Division and extremism galore.

Lets make people hate.
Lets hate on Israel, lets hate on left Democrats, lets hate on MAGAS, lets hate on Utah Jazz..

Phatsguyrule complained about spreading lies, while the thread became a plethora and room for many conspirecies ideations...
Conspiracies are plain theories that once one sticks and hard to dissproof becomes set in stone as if true. Where in fact it just isnt.

Does god exist? Can you prove it? Can you disprove it?

Cant do either? Great we can now divide the people using this god thing.

Logical thinking is very important here.
Once you learn to identify these types of theories (conspiracies) that cannot be proved or falsified - you see through the propaganda and narrative building from those with interests.

The problem is - once values allign with a side - critical thinking is demishied and the world tend to be viewed via a biased critical thinking glasses...

And that is why I expect dark times to come..
Click to expand...

It’s inevitable. Just read some of the comments in this forum. Sooo many people entrenched to the point if you disagree with them on anything you are evil to them.

I see it on both sides. Fb is flooded with right wingers calling the dems evil. Dems calling republicans racist nazis.
Its soooo entrenched even educated, intelligent people are lost/caught up in this battle. Just read this forum. It’s very, very, disheartening.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
"All signs point to Israel"

A single post in this forum.

1. Is a lie. Check.
(All? Signs)
Maybe some. Maybe few. nope - All signs.

2. Trying to convice others - check.

3. Seems to me saying something like that is in actuallity claiming to know what happened (without actually engaging in debate proposing what you are basing your claim upon).

Yeah - if I follow cadance brown who hates Israel - her signs will direct the blame to Israel, just the same if I follow some Maga media person the blame will be pointed to left woke democrats. Again - all I am saying this point blame/fingers at sides right now is the exact thing that lead to decisive and hatefull discussion.
A petry dish for conspiracies.
I wish not to be included in this narrative, but I will point out when someone is taking it too far.
If someone here said

All signs lead to Maga
All signs lead to Woke left
All signs lead to Qatar
All signs lead to liberals
All signs lead to queers

I would still call it out. Hope for it to be called out by others.
I happen to be Israeli so the specific post resonated with me a bit more..
Click to expand...
That was a statement of opinion based on observation.

I'm not concerned about observation based opinions when I'm calling out Charlie Kirk or MAGA.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
It’s inevitable. Just read some of the comments in this forum. Sooo many people entrenched to the point if you disagree with them on anything you are evil to them.

I see it on both sides. Fb is flooded with right wingers calling the dems evil. Dems calling republicans racist nazis.
Its soooo entrenched even educated, intelligent people are lost/caught up in this battle. Just read this forum. It’s very, very, disheartening.
Click to expand...
I have a theory that at some point this decade someone realized that bots are far more effective amplifying the worst of both sides than engaging with politics directly.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
It’s inevitable. Just read some of the comments in this forum. Sooo many people entrenched to the point if you disagree with them on anything you are evil to them.

I see it on both sides. Fb is flooded with right wingers calling the dems evil. Dems calling republicans racist nazis.
Its soooo entrenched even educated, intelligent people are lost/caught up in this battle. Just read this forum. It’s very, very, disheartening.
Click to expand...
Yeah, no. Again. There is no both sides on this one.

Calling out MAGA and Charlie Kirk for their bigotry is legitimate. Just scroll up to see the kind of racist shit he said.

Calling bigotry out for what it is is good and honorable.

Democratic leaders are not advocating for violence or kicking people out of the country. Or targeting specific races or genders.

There is a huge difference.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yeah, no. Again. There is no both sides on this one.

Calling out MAGA and Charlie Kirk for their bigotry is legitimate. Jist scroll up toesee the kind of racist shit he said.

Calling bigotry out for what it is is good and honorable.

Democratic leaders are not advocating for violence or kicking people out of the country.

There is a huge difference.
Click to expand...

yeah I've seen it. On fb and in here. The truncated misleading quotes, some so dissected they are out of context. Ive seen what was posted on here, did my research and found the full quote. Realized that people are either sheep, believing a seven word quote, and not watching full videos to get the full truth, I don't know. But its a fact quotes like he said he is okay with kids being shot to keep the 2nd amendment haven been twisted to fit the lefts narrative.
Ive seen people up in arms. White men up in arms because he said women go to college to find a husband. But in that video, not one girl was offended and understood what he was saying.

If you don't think there are both sides, you are one of their victims, the ones who want us all to fight.
Ive seen it. If you haven't, do more research. Its out there.
 
Prior to his death, I was only vaguely aware of Kirk as some kind of toxic opportunist who found a niche with disaffected young Americans. It wasn't difficult to turn off that kind of vile noise. But now it's as if this guy was some young Jesus, reincarnated to save the youth of America. Half of this country literally probably never, ever heard of the guy prior to two days ago and now he is right up there with George Washington. The rending of clothing, the crocodile tears and the soaring rhetoric for this guy is utterly disgusting and and puts a capstone on just how far this country has fallen in terms of it ideals and it's "heroes". Right up there with the whitewashing of Ashlie Babbitt. Wow, from relative obscurity to sainthood with the pull of a trigger.......Make America Great Again........
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
open and honest dialogue… Must be from all sides…
Pretty sure i said the those things?

But the left does not have open and honest dialogue with aggressive restraint. Neither does the right. But let’s not act like the left doesn't rage.
Ive been told to fuck off for simply trying to engage in a conversation about abortion. Simply asking questions and told to fuck off. Im pro abortion with limits! That is not open and honest dialogue and is not aggressive restraint.

Of course NONE of this is an answer if we aren't able to observe our own behaviors with honesty and modesty.
None of us are perfect, but self accountability for ones behavior is essential for open and honest dialogue to take place.
Click to expand...
My post was regarding the respect of facts and the expert professionals who have spent their lives studying a subject. For example climatology, epidemiology, chemistry, etc, just to name a few...

Arguing against the findings of these expert professionals when you don't have equivalent educational or professional expertise is deliberately avoiding a good faith conversation.

Arguing against their positions in effort to change popular opinions against those findings is engaging is simply engaging in deceit and the spread of propaganda.

The left doesn't engage in this kind of thing in order to target specific races, genders, or religions.
 
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