Chemistry! What I said about the Collins vs Swift is right! (Merged)

[ly_yng]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift still has that thing called potential. All of us here know he's a bust, but he could have a decent game or two and fool some idiot GM (Isiah, for instance) into thinking that he turned it around. That's never going to happen w/ Collins.</div>

I'll trade Brandon Roy for Andrea Barganini's potential any day.

Or how about Shane Battier for Kwame Brown's potential?

There is a rare subset of players in the NBA who's first priority is making sure they do everything in their power to try and help their team win. Jason Collins was in that subset, and now we (probably) have no-one like that left.

The bottom-line is that those are exactly the type of locker room guys you want around when you're rebuilding. And we gave away our only one for a self-absorbed career loser.

 

[furnace]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 6 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift still has that thing called potential. All of us here know he's a bust, but he could have a decent game or two and fool some idiot GM (Isiah, for instance) into thinking that he turned it around. That's never going to happen w/ Collins.</div>

I'll trade Brandon Roy for Andrea Barganini's potential any day.

Or how about Shane Battier for Kwame Brown's potential?

There is a rare subset of players in the NBA who's first priority is making sure they do everything in their power to try and help their team win. Jason Collins was in that subset, and now we (probably) have no-one like that left.

The bottom-line is that those are exactly the type of locker room guys you want around when you're rebuilding. And we gave away our only one for a self-absorbed career loser.
</div>


Well said.

 

[Petey]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 6 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift still has that thing called potential. All of us here know he's a bust, but he could have a decent game or two and fool some idiot GM (Isiah, for instance) into thinking that he turned it around. That's never going to happen w/ Collins.</div>

I'll trade Brandon Roy for Andrea Barganini's potential any day.

Or how about Shane Battier for Kwame Brown's potential?

There is a rare subset of players in the NBA who's first priority is making sure they do everything in their power to try and help their team win. Jason Collins was in that subset, and now we (probably) have no-one like that left.

The bottom-line is that those are exactly the type of locker room guys you want around when you're rebuilding. And we gave away our only one for a self-absorbed career loser.
</div>

Problem is it's hard to put a value on these guys. With that, even worse when you overpay them.

-Petey

 

[Netted]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netsfan318 @ Feb 6 2008, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"This trade sucks. It really sucks (bleep), man. And it really sucks the way it happened. For all the guy has given this team, they shouldn't have done it this way. I'm not saying the next guy can't help, I'm just saying Twin was a chemistry guy. We have lousy chemistry, and he's the only one who gives us some, so tell me how this makes sense? He's definitely one of those guys who is going to be missed with all the changes we're going to go through." And then, after a long pause, there was this incredulous muttering: "And we're trading him for a guy who was just suspended (for conduct detrimental)?"</div>



whoever said that comment should go along w/ Collins too, unfortunately we know Lawrence Frank will never be outed
</div>
It was from a "teammate".

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 6 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift still has that thing called potential. All of us here know he's a bust, but he could have a decent game or two and fool some idiot GM (Isiah, for instance) into thinking that he turned it around. That's never going to happen w/ Collins.</div>

I'll trade Brandon Roy for Andrea Barganini's potential any day.

Or how about Shane Battier for Kwame Brown's potential?

There is a rare subset of players in the NBA who's first priority is making sure they do everything in their power to try and help their team win. Jason Collins was in that subset, and now we (probably) have no-one like that left.

The bottom-line is that those are exactly the type of locker room guys you want around when you're rebuilding. And we gave away our only one for a self-absorbed career loser.
</div>

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it was a great trade for the Nets. But if they are going to be trading away all of their older talent, I just think more teams would take a chance on Swift in some sort of package than accepting Collins.

For all of Jason Collins being such a great teammate, they were still losing a ton of games w/ him being a great guy on the end of the bench.

 

[furnace]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 6 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift still has that thing called potential. All of us here know he's a bust, but he could have a decent game or two and fool some idiot GM (Isiah, for instance) into thinking that he turned it around. That's never going to happen w/ Collins.</div>

I'll trade Brandon Roy for Andrea Barganini's potential any day.

Or how about Shane Battier for Kwame Brown's potential?

There is a rare subset of players in the NBA who's first priority is making sure they do everything in their power to try and help their team win. Jason Collins was in that subset, and now we (probably) have no-one like that left.

The bottom-line is that those are exactly the type of locker room guys you want around when you're rebuilding. And we gave away our only one for a self-absorbed career loser.
</div>

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it was a great trade for the Nets. But if they are going to be trading away all of their older talent, I just think more teams would take a chance on Swift in some sort of package than accepting Collins.

For all of Jason Collins being such a great teammate, they were still losing a ton of games w/ him being a great guy on the end of the bench.
</div>


Collins was a great foundation. Even though the pyramid above him was crumbling, he would have been a great cornerstone to build from. Remove him now, the pyramid is still in shambles. The ruins will not look that different. But it will be much harder to rebuild the pyramid, especially if Kidd, RJ, and Boone are the other cornerstones.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Feb 6 2008, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jirohkanzaki @ Feb 5 2008, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>the trade was done because twin and his bad contract could not be traded since other teams do not want to pay $6M/yr for 2ppg and 2rpg no matter how much of the other things twin brings to the game...twin always becomes the deal-breaker in trade scenarios so thorn is thinking he may have better luck with the young and athletic stro...</div>



Basketball is more than a box score. More than any other professional sport, it is about chemistry and anticipation. Collins was the glue holding this team together, as evidenced by that quote from a Nets player.


</div>


If so, then he must have been some pretty shitty glue. Really, this team's chemistry was gone to begin with. Keeping or trading Collins isn't gonna change that one bit.

Just look at it this way, guys: We're on our way to rebuilding. It's easier to trade Swift than it is to trade Collins.

 

[footswalker]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Feb 6 2008, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 6 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift still has that thing called potential. All of us here know he's a bust, but he could have a decent game or two and fool some idiot GM (Isiah, for instance) into thinking that he turned it around. That's never going to happen w/ Collins.</div>

I'll trade Brandon Roy for Andrea Barganini's potential any day.

Or how about Shane Battier for Kwame Brown's potential?

There is a rare subset of players in the NBA who's first priority is making sure they do everything in their power to try and help their team win. Jason Collins was in that subset, and now we (probably) have no-one like that left.

The bottom-line is that those are exactly the type of locker room guys you want around when you're rebuilding. And we gave away our only one for a self-absorbed career loser.
</div>


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it was a great trade for the Nets. But if they are going to be trading away all of their older talent, I just think more teams would take a chance on Swift in some sort of package than accepting Collins.

For all of Jason Collins being such a great teammate, they were still losing a ton of games w/ him being a great guy on the end of the bench.
</div>


Collins was a great foundation. Even though the pyramid above him was crumbling, he would have been a great cornerstone to build from. Remove him now, the pyramid is still in shambles. The ruins will not look that different. But it will be much harder to rebuild the pyramid, especially if Kidd, RJ, and Boone are the other cornerstones.
</div>
This is getting hilarious. Collins, a cornerstone to build from and around! A cornerstone??? It's like that Bob Marley line, "the stone that builder refuse, shall be the head cornerstone.." LOL. He's in a rare subset of players! LOL.

And now comparing Brandon Roy's and Shane Battier's skill set and value to Collins and whether he should be traded? That just put the cherry on top of your Full of B.S Sundae. You want sprinkles with that? You are entitled to your opinion, but wow, I think we need to revoke some posting rights after that one.

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Feb 6 2008, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 6 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Feb 6 2008, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift still has that thing called potential. All of us here know he's a bust, but he could have a decent game or two and fool some idiot GM (Isiah, for instance) into thinking that he turned it around. That's never going to happen w/ Collins.</div>

I'll trade Brandon Roy for Andrea Barganini's potential any day.

Or how about Shane Battier for Kwame Brown's potential?

There is a rare subset of players in the NBA who's first priority is making sure they do everything in their power to try and help their team win. Jason Collins was in that subset, and now we (probably) have no-one like that left.

The bottom-line is that those are exactly the type of locker room guys you want around when you're rebuilding. And we gave away our only one for a self-absorbed career loser.
</div>

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it was a great trade for the Nets. But if they are going to be trading away all of their older talent, I just think more teams would take a chance on Swift in some sort of package than accepting Collins.

For all of Jason Collins being such a great teammate, they were still losing a ton of games w/ him being a great guy on the end of the bench.
</div>


Collins was a great foundation. Even though the pyramid above him was crumbling, he would have been a great cornerstone to build from. Remove him now, the pyramid is still in shambles. The ruins will not look that different. But it will be much harder to rebuild the pyramid, especially if Kidd, RJ, and Boone are the other cornerstones.
</div>

I'm gonnna have to disagree with you on that one. Collins was making way too much to be considered a foundation for rebuilding. If he were being paid the veterans minimum, then he would be great to have around. But his contract combined w/ the luxury tax puts the Nets in a real tight spot.

 

[go nets]

I cant believe ppl are complaining about this trade, they should be rejoicing.
Collins is garbage! How can ppl talk about chemistry when the guy only played 2 mins a night?!
-This is fuckin ridiculous <span style="color:#ff0000">-------- </span>about collins being a cornerstone and about him being the glue to this team.
-You actually have to be a contributing player to be any type of glue to a team especially one that was losing games with him on it.
-Swift hasnt even played a single game for the nets and you guys are knockin him for being an inferior player compared to collins, be fair wait and see how he plays.

<span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"> </span>

 

[Dumpy]

Collins was a complimentary player who did some things well, and some things terribly. He is hated for things that were totally beyond his control: First, it isn't his fault that he was asked to start at PF for the past few years, when he should have been the backup center. Second, it isn't his fault that Rod Thorn offered him too much money for too long a period. If you can put that aside, and judge him on his merits, you've got a guy who always played as hard as he could, never complained, never got into trouble, and often played while hurt. Everyone on the team loved and respected him. One thing that was always overlooked was just how well the Nets rebounded as a team when he was in the game, even though he didn't get the rebounds himself. What's more, although I can't seem to find any official stats anywhere, I wouldn't be surprised if he was in the team's top-five all-time list for being a part of victories. He was a vital part of the most successful teams in NBA franchise history. Yes, he's mostly useless, but that's no reason why he should be tossed aside like a three-day-old tuna sandwich, or that we can't get nostalgic about him. When your dog gets old and can't run anymore, you don't throw him into the street.

Collins could be effective when surrounded by the right personnel, as exemplified by the Nets' record when Kidd, Carter, RJ, Krstic and Collins were in the starting lineup--over .600, I think. But that's all gone, and so his usefulness is over. So now we have Stromile Swift--the prototypical guy who, two years ago, we would have said, "wow--think how great he'll be playing next to Kidd." Except now Kidd doesn't give a damn.

 

[Jizzy]

collins a stiff who cant rebound, block shots, takes forever rising up for a dunk, and is a horrible, possibly one of the 10 worst offensive starters in NBA history. he was a decent post defender, but his defense has fallen, guys like shaq, pau, KG... guys who collins has defended well before, have gone off on him. his knees have completely been shot.

swift is a moron who has horrid basketball IQ but he is an athlete, guys who kidd meshes well with. i said it before, thorn focuses to much on bringing players in with good skill but limited athletic ability, swift is a guy with no bball IQ but can jump out the gym. more GMs are gonna want swift over collins, thats basic. collins has killed two deals, for JON and for odom, swift is a guy GMs will be fooled easily by with his athletic ability. thats just the truth, no matter how many little things he does, which dont get you anywhere at times, his weaknesses hurt this team...alot