Chess IS a Sport

[BrewCityBuck]

It's just a fun board game to millions of people. That's what it is.

 

[Suns Fan Guy]

the definition of sport: 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. chess doesn't fall into that

 

[the_pestilence]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ Apr 2 2007, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Naw. I'm saying that chess is so distinctive. It's actually beyond most sports when it comes to serious competition. There is zero element of luck, no moderators, judges, or refs to f*ck up the purity of the game. It's the truest form of mano y mano other than a street fight or cage match. The distinction in competition is tremendous.I conceded the point on physical exertion, but damn, give me something.</div>But physical exertion is the biggest part of sports, so therefore you conceded the argument.It's a great form of competition, and incredibly difficult to play, but that doesn't make it a sport.

 

[gentile]

^Totally disagree. Physical exertion is only the most obvious expression of "sports." The skill, talent, timing, practice, and intelligence that playing any competitive sport requires is more than abundant within chess.Chess is also unique in it's endurance. Boardgame? Bah.I suggest that by virtue of it's purity, this deficiency in physical activity is more than made up for. This is why I feel chess deserves an exception. What other sport has no element of luck, needs no referee potentially screwing it up, has a history longer than the three major American sports combined, and already has a thriving worldwide organization in place.I wouldn't say that chess in the tradition of modern sports when it comes to preparation and competition. I would say vice-versa. Sports imitates chess - and very poorly at that. Referees and judges and luck especially introduce much too much an element of randomness to most sports. They are too much apart of the games. How many times have we debated which team got robbed? That's why I feel chess should be included by unique definition as a sport.

 

[the_pestilence]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I suggest that by virtue of it's purity, this deficiency in physical activity is more than made up for.</div>fine, by that vein lets give Lamar Odom a doctorate in physics and a nobel prize. His deficiency in brains is surely made up for by his athletics.While we're at it, let's call basketball a board game.My point is, you can't make up for an essential component of something because you're good at something that may or may not be related. Let's call stephen colbert an NBA hall of famer because he's a comic genius. He surely makes up for his lack of basketball ability with his humor

 

[gentile]

Maybe we can keep this conversation within the realm of competitve activities, ie, the distinction between games and sports and how it applies to a fair categorization of chess.

 

[gambitnut]

After having my heart rate at over 200 half an hour after the end of the last round of the scholastic state championship, I disagree about there being no physical exertion in chess and I consider chess a sport.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gambitnut @ Jan 21 2008, 12:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>After having my heart rate at over 200 half an hour after the end of the last round of the scholastic state championship, I disagree about there being no physical exertion in chess and I consider chess a sport.</div>


would you say that going to get a vaccination by someone who is deathly afraid of needles is a sport?

the same can be applied for the heartrate-example you have left.

 

[Lavalamp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Apr 1 2007, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I imagine that four or five hours of sleep would burn more calories than an important game of chess would.</div>
I think that when you are awake you burn more calories than sleeping.

Chess isn't a sport. Sports involve physical activity. It's a boardgame or more simply a game.

Now all sports are games, so Chess has that in common with sports.

 

[Dumpy]

Just because some thing involves physical activity doesn't make it a sport ("I'll bet I can hold a rock over my head longer than you can"). Similarly, all sports don't involve physical activity--at least, the same amount of physical activity (golf, anyone?). The first step is defining what makes a sport.

 

[Lavalamp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jan 21 2008, 07:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Just because some thing involves physical activity doesn't make it a sport ("I'll bet I can hold a rock over my head longer than you can"). Similarly, all sports don't involve physical activity--at least, the same amount of physical activity (golf, anyone?). The first step is defining what makes a sport.</div>

Meriam-Websters:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>1 a: a source of diversion : recreation b: sexual play c (1): physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2): a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in</div>

Freedictionary.com
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.b. A particular form of this activity.2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.3. An active pastime; recreation.</div>

Dictionary.com
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. 2.a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors. 3.diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.</div>

Wikipedia:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>some before it
<ul>[*]Card games<ul>[*]Blackjack[*]Bridge[*]Poker[*]Rummy[*]Solitaire[*]Children's Card Games[/list] [*]Carrom<ul>[*]Crokinole[*]Novuss[*]Pichenotte[*]Pitchnut[/list] [*]Checkers (draughts)[*]Chess[*]Chinese Checkers[*]Connect Four[*]Cue sports[/list]and so forth</div>

Well Wiki its in the list , but most people I know wouldn't refer to Chess, Checkers, Dominoes, Connect 4, Go Fish, or Sodukos as sports.

Dumpy do you consider Connect 4, and Go Fish as sports?

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Jan 21 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jan 21 2008, 07:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Just because some thing involves physical activity doesn't make it a sport ("I'll bet I can hold a rock over my head longer than you can"). Similarly, all sports don't involve physical activity--at least, the same amount of physical activity (golf, anyone?). The first step is defining what makes a sport.</div>

Meriam-Websters:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>1 a: a source of diversion : recreation b: sexual play c (1): physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2): a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in</div>

Freedictionary.com
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.b. A particular form of this activity.2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.3. An active pastime; recreation.</div>

Dictionary.com
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. 2.a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors. 3.diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.</div>

Wikipedia:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>some before it
<ul>[*]Card games<ul>[*]Blackjack[*]Bridge[*]Poker[*]Rummy[*]Solitaire[*]Children's Card Games[/list] [*]Carrom<ul>[*]Crokinole[*]Novuss[*]Pichenotte[*]Pitchnut[/list] [*]Checkers (draughts)[*]Chess[*]Chinese Checkers[*]Connect Four[*]Cue sports[/list]and so forth</div>

Well Wiki its in the list , but most people I know wouldn't refer to Chess, Checkers, Dominoes, Connect 4, Go Fish, or Sodukos as sports.

Dumpy do you consider Connect 4, and Go Fish as sports?
</div>

If there is a high degree of randomness (NBA officiating aside), I wouldn't consider something a sport. So, for example, any game that uses dice. Skill has to be the major element that determines victory. Games such as scrabble and poker have random elements, but the better players nearly always win. Monopoly and backgammon, also. However, I'd argue (as the definitions seem to show) that there must be athletic skill--not just skill--and athletic skill I define as hand-eye coordination, strength, speed, and balance. In some cases, like cross-country ski racing, physical endurance. It also has to be a competition--so, for instance, a running race could be a sport, but just running in the park is NOT a sport. Thus, to me, bowling is a sport. Unfortunately, golf is a sport. However, "hunting" is NOT a sport, because it is NOT a competition among people, and once it is over, you can't agree to do it again with the same conditions. A piano competition involved a great deal of physical exertion, but no one would argue that it is a sport.

Scrabble, poker, 3-D tic-tac-toe--and chess--are games of skill. Regular tic-tac-toe has a simple optimal strategy, so I would probably call that a "pasttime"--although for children it may be a game of skill.

Professional chess players spend more time perfecting their play than professional athletes. They also expect to be paid like professional athletes like tennis players and golfers. Unfortunately, they are misguided, in my view. However, it is sad that they can't make a living, and don't have health insurance. They probably should be more well-rounded, though.

But on the "physical exertion" angle: The first Kasparov-Karpov match was suspended because the health of the players was deteriorating from the rigors of play. That's something (although some people in the know may argue that it was a ruse designed to prevent Karpov from losing).

Chess is the best game of skill in the world, though. It should be recognized for what it is. There are a ton of reasons to play; for instance, studies have shown that kids who play chess have better focus, can concentrate for longer, and even their grades improve. In some countries (and some private schools), chess instruction is MANDATORY, just like PE class is mandatory.

There are four human endeavors where children can be considered prodigies--that is, where thought and ability and ideas are more imprtant than experience: music, art (such as painting), math, and chess. They are all related. Chess, then, can be best described as part art form, part calculation.

One last thought: When ESPN broadcasts dog shows, fishing, and poker, the lines have been blurred. They are no more sports than chess is, and it is a shame that chess doesn't have the public awareness as it does in other countries (such as Iceland, where everyone plays). As I said, there are many benefits to playing, and it is fun.

 

[Mr. J]

I remember my chess days back in the 5th grade. My chess team won first in NYC back in 1999. Tournament was in the Museum of Natural History. Good times. I was also on TV with them holding a trophy almost as big as me.

As for chess being a sport... I can see both sides of the spectrum. There is a ridiculous amount of strategy/preparation involved in improving your game. You can also play on a team. But I know the common perception of a sport is physical play and athleticism in addition to the skill involved.

I guess it's more of a "mind sport" if that makes sense. But I don't know if there is a real answer to this question. It's what one considers it.

 

[Lavalamp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jan 21 2008, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>
Well Wiki its in the list , but most people I know wouldn't refer to Chess, Checkers, Dominoes, Connect 4, Go Fish, or Sodukos as sports.

Dumpy do you consider Connect 4, and Go Fish as sports?</div>

If there is a high degree of randomness (NBA officiating aside), I wouldn't consider something a sport. So, for example, any game that uses dice. Skill has to be the major element that determines victory. Games such as scrabble and poker have random elements, but the better players nearly always win. Monopoly and backgammon, also. However, I'd argue (as the definitions seem to show) that there must be athletic skill--not just skill--and athletic skill I define as hand-eye coordination, strength, speed, and balance. In some cases, like cross-country ski racing, physical endurance. It also has to be a competition--so, for instance, a running race could be a sport, but just running in the park is NOT a sport. Thus, to me, bowling is a sport. Unfortunately, golf is a sport. However, "hunting" is NOT a sport, because it is NOT a competition among people, and once it is over, you can't agree to do it again with the same conditions. A piano competition involved a great deal of physical exertion, but no one would argue that it is a sport.

Scrabble, poker, 3-D tic-tac-toe--and chess--are games of skill. Regular tic-tac-toe has a simple optimal strategy, so I would probably call that a "pasttime"--although for children it may be a game of skill.

Professional chess players spend more time perfecting their play than professional athletes. They also expect to be paid like professional athletes like tennis players and golfers. Unfortunately, they are misguided, in my view. However, it is sad that they can't make a living, and don't have health insurance. They probably should be more well-rounded, though.

But on the "physical exertion" angle: The first Kasparov-Karpov match was suspended because the health of the players was deteriorating from the rigors of play. That's something (although some people in the know may argue that it was a ruse designed to prevent Karpov from losing).

Chess is the best game of skill in the world, though. It should be recognized for what it is. There are a ton of reasons to play; for instance, studies have shown that kids who play chess have better focus, can concentrate for longer, and even their grades improve. In some countries (and some private schools), chess instruction is MANDATORY, just like PE class is mandatory.

There are four human endeavors where children can be considered prodigies--that is, where thought and ability and ideas are more imprtant than experience: music, art (such as painting), math, and chess. They are all related. Chess, then, can be best described as part art form, part calculation.

One last thought: When ESPN broadcasts dog shows, fishing, and poker, the lines have been blurred. They are no more sports than chess is, and it is a shame that chess doesn't have the public awareness as it does in other countries (such as Iceland, where everyone plays). As I said, there are many benefits to playing, and it is fun.

</div>

Would you consider Soduko, Connect 4, and checkers to be sports? and I'm not trying to say Chess is inferior in anyway because I don't consider it a sport. I kind of like MrJ's idea of a "mind sport", which I would agree on. My definition of a sport is that it include's physical activity.

I totally agree that it requires a lot of study, crazy focus and planning/thinking, and can be very stressful, especially an important match, and one that goes for a long time. However what I just described, could be the same for a Calculus Exam.

I do consider hunting a sport, moreso if its with a bow or spear (requires more athleticism). I wouldn't consider Poker or dog shows a sport, but Fishing I guess its in, but not by much lol. I would consider dog shows a sport from the dog's perspective.

I could see Chess being somewhat an art, and it being a useful for helping sharpen the mind.

 

[Denny Crane]

Parchisi.

 

[zєяσ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ Apr 2 2007, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^Totally disagree. Physical exertion is only the most obvious expression of "sports." </div>
Thus a major reason as to why chess is not a sport.
Something like chess is in its own category.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

chess is a game, not a sport

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Jan 21 2008, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Would you consider Soduko, Connect 4, and checkers to be sports? and I'm not trying to say Chess is inferior in anyway because I don't consider it a sport. I kind of like MrJ's idea of a "mind sport", which I would agree on. My definition of a sport is that it include's physical activity.

I totally agree that it requires a lot of study, crazy focus and planning/thinking, and can be very stressful, especially an important match, and one that goes for a long time. However what I just described, could be the same for a Calculus Exam.

I do consider hunting a sport, moreso if its with a bow or spear (requires more athleticism). I wouldn't consider Poker or dog shows a sport, but Fishing I guess its in, but not by much lol. I would consider dog shows a sport from the dog's perspective.

I could see Chess being somewhat an art, and it being a useful for helping sharpen the mind.</div>

None of them are sports. Another element of a sport, to me, is the ability to say "two out of three?" when it is over. You can't do that with hunting or fishing. Just because an activity requires hand-eye coordination doesn't make it a "sport." Heck, throwing rocks at cans is more of a sport than hunting. However, I'd probably consider shooting at a target a sport, although it requires no physical exertion.

Just chess is a great game because you can recreate previous games and you can improve your play by studying other games, and there is NO randomness involved. You are either in charge of the white team or the black team.

anywya, if anyone wants to discuss how to play the sicilian dragon or pawn play, I'd be up for it.

 

[Hudge]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ Mar 31 2007, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tHe_pEsTiLeNcE @ Mar 31 2007, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>how is it a sport? and can a mod move this to normal off topic?how can something be a sport when there's no physical excercise and the #2 ranked all time player is a robot</div>A mod can move this to normal off-topic. But I'm pretty sure this is gonna be a debate.Deep Blue is dope. Deep Blue was a marketing ploy and a test by a computer/programming company to make money. But a machine could beat Ben Johnson in a footrace if it were allowed and be number one. And using your brain is physical exercise. Lookit, chess isn't really a game the way it's played today. You yourself referred to rankings. What mere game has rankings?
</div>
So anything with rankings is a sport, so rap is a sport, (actually rappers do dance around a lot) Army is a sport? Posting on a forum is a sport?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Mar 31 2007, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Using your brain is a electrochemical process, not exercise (although exercise is a result of electrochemical processes).Sports not only require competitiveness, but also hand-eye coordination, physical skills, etc. A person with no hands could still play chess.</div>
duh
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Jan 21 2008, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Apr 1 2007, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I imagine that four or five hours of sleep would burn more calories than an important game of chess would.</div>
I think that when you are awake you burn more calories than sleeping.

Chess isn't a sport. Sports involve physical activity. It's a boardgame or more simply a game.

Now all sports are games, so Chess has that in common with sports.
</div>
You are wrong, if you are sitting around doing jack all then being asleep will burn more calories.
Just because it gets your heart rate up doesn't mean it's exercise, my heart rate went up really high when I was watching the Istanbul final, does that make it a sport? No.
The match was a sport, but watching it wasn't
And finally with all this talk of Grand Masters, I would like to remind you we are talking about chess and not the KKK.

 

[man_u_barmy_army]

Chess cannot be considered a sport in any way shape or form

 

[bangofan13]

chess a sport? Then we have some crazy athletes at my old high school that still dribble the ball off their foot.

 

[DynastYWarrioR6]

Don't know about you guys, but he had me at sexual play...Thank you Merriam-Webster