OT Christchurch shooting: multiple fatalities after mass shooting at two mosques – live updates

[bodyman5000 and 1]

At least she wants a solution...

What the right's guy has to say about it is SHAMEFUL, and your silence here is deafening....

Silence because none of us listen to him. Is he still on the radio? Is Michael Savage still on?

I wouldn't have a clue.

 

[MarAzul]

Silence because none of us listen to him. Is he still on the radio? Is Michael Savage still on?

I wouldn't have a clue.

Yeah, they are still on the radio. I hear them when traveling to and from the boat. Rush by Day, Savage by night.
My God! I can't imagine having to listen to @dviss1 that often.

 

[DUB]

I’ve tried to post about this a few times over the last couple of days, but I haven’t been able to find the right words. I’m still not sure that I have, but I feel a responsibility to push past my discomfort, and say something.

It struck me today that whenever a terrorist does something in the name of Islam, many people say that Islamic leaders should be stronger with their condemnation. They must think to themselves these people don’t represent Islam, why is it my responsibility to condemn them?

I asked myself today, this terrorist doesn’t represent Australians, as an Australian is it my responsibility to condemn him? I don’t know if it is, but I feel that I have to.

The actions of this man are disgusting, reprehensible, and those of an utter coward. He does not represent Australia, or the majority of Australian’s views towards Islam. I apologise to our Kiwi brothers, and sisters, you have our deepest sympathies.

 

[dviss1]

Oh, I'm not so sure of that.

I thought that was Ann Coulter. Or Trump. Or McConnell. I keep forgetting which. I thought you were one of those cheering for it, because you wanted Pelosi & Co. to keep standing up to him?

He and Ann got Trump in a hot room and he capitulated.

 

[dviss1]

Yeah, they are still on the radio. I hear them when traveling to and from the boat. Rush by Day, Savage by night.
My God! I can't imagine having to listen to @dviss1 that often.

You don't listen to me or anyone who looks like me.

That's your problem.

 

[CupWizier]

New Zealand is looking to act swiftly and working on enacting gun control laws after just one mass shooting, while our president and the republican side stick their heads up their asses and cower down to the NRA and refuse to do much of anything after many many mass shootings.

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/3/16/18268491/new-zealand-mosque-shooting-gun-control-response

 

[MarAzul]

You don't listen to me or anyone who looks like me.

That's your problem.

Carry on!

 

[Lanny]

Some of us don't want that, but those of you voting differently seem not to care...
No, it's because they've already, due to the laws of the land, decided by a trial of their peers and through every check and balance known to some of the brightest geniuses ever to conceive a government, that some murdering, raping piece of human excrement has behaved so vilely, and beyond such a benefit of the doubt, that they have been deemed not worthy to continue living for fear of the evil they will continue to impart if left alive.Bully for the both of us! I believe, however, that I am on the right side of what our country is. You're welcome to go try to find countries that fit your interpretation of what a good country is, and I sincerely hope you find it. Until then, anyone who wants to change my country to be more like a dystopian welfare state can fuck LEFT off.

Temper, temper.

 

[Lanny]

New Zealand is looking to act swiftly and working on enacting gun control laws after just one mass shooting, while our president and the republican side stick their heads up their asses and cower down to the NRA and refuse to do much of anything after many many mass shootings.

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/3/16/18268491/new-zealand-mosque-shooting-gun-control-response

Gun laws are in the works. The public wants laws protecting us.

 

[Natebishop3]

New Zealand is looking to act swiftly and working on enacting gun control laws after just one mass shooting, while our president and the republican side stick their heads up their asses and cower down to the NRA and refuse to do much of anything after many many mass shootings.

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/3/16/18268491/new-zealand-mosque-shooting-gun-control-response

Well I find knee jerk reactions and changing laws while emotions are high is a huge mistake.

The TSA and the Patriot Act are a perfect example. The airlines were fine before 9/11. It was not airport security that broke down. Box cutters were 100% legal to bring on a plane. We gave up personal freedoms for the illusion of safety and security. It never should have happened.

 

[Natebishop3]

Gun laws are in the works. The public wants laws protecting us.

Laws do not protect you. They create the illusion of protection.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Well I find knee jerk reactions and changing laws while emotions are high is a huge mistake.

The TSA and the Patriot Act are a perfect example. The airlines were fine before 9/11. It was not airport security that broke down. Box cutters were 100% legal to bring on a plane. We gave up personal freedoms for the illusion of safety and security. It never should have happened.

Laws do not protect you. They create the illusion of protection.

Yep. Laws like this are punishment. Not prevention.

 

[riverman]

Laws do not protect you. They create the illusion of protection.

Thankfully drunk driving has dropped off since I was first learning to drive...laws DO protect people...many circumstances...you'll still have drunk drivers but not a majority of them all the time. The wild west wasn't that much fun after all...you let a drunk go 100 mph he probably will

 

[Lanny]

Laws do not protect you. They create the illusion of protection.

Then we need to throw out all the laws that just clutter the place up. It's every man for himself.

 

[Further]

Well I find knee jerk reactions and changing laws while emotions are high is a huge mistake.

The TSA and the Patriot Act are a perfect example. The airlines were fine before 9/11. It was not airport security that broke down. Box cutters were 100% legal to bring on a plane. We gave up personal freedoms for the illusion of safety and security. It never should have happened.

If, after 9-11 we did nothing overseas then perhaps you would be correct but going after terrorists (for good or bad) meant more radicals would try and hurt us. Since the TSA there have been multiple attempts thwarted.

I’m not saying that it was right for us to respond the way we did, but if a deadly response was going to happen the TSA and increased security was absolutely required.

The Patriot Act, that I won’t defend.

 

[CupWizier]

Wow, a week after a mass shooting in New Zealand and they are already proposing gun control laws while we have a president and republican senate that sits on their asses and afraid to do anything that might ruffle the feathers of the NRA in fear of not receiving money. Sad state of affair for the USA.

 

[CupWizier]

Well I find knee jerk reactions and changing laws while emotions are high is a huge mistake.

The TSA and the Patriot Act are a perfect example. The airlines were fine before 9/11. It was not airport security that broke down. Box cutters were 100% legal to bring on a plane. We gave up personal freedoms for the illusion of safety and security. It never should have happened.

Knee jerk reactions? How long ago was Sandy Hook? How long ago was Columbine, Las Vegas, Orlando etc.?

 

[dviss1]

Well I find knee jerk reactions and changing laws while emotions are high is a huge mistake.

The TSA and the Patriot Act are a perfect example. The airlines were fine before 9/11. It was not airport security that broke down. Box cutters were 100% legal to bring on a plane. We gave up personal freedoms for the illusion of safety and security. It never should have happened.

It's not a "knee jerk" reaction and people who want common sense gun safety laws are tired of you saying that.

It's bullshit.

Not sure how many American gun deaths you need but 33K gun deaths EVERY year requires action.

Your "knee jerk" line is TIRED.

You have no room to use it anymore.

 

[dviss1]

Laws do not protect you. They create the illusion of protection.

Are you or are you not safer because you're required to stop at stop signs?

That said, a GREAT friend of mine was killed because someone ran a stop sign. TRUTH.

Stop thinking that laws stop all crime or protect all people.

We have a death penalty and we still have murderers.

Make sense...

 

[dviss1]

No, it's because they've already, due to the laws of the land, decided by a trial of their peers and through every check and balance known to some of the brightest geniuses ever to conceive a government, that some murdering, raping piece of human excrement has behaved so vilely, and beyond such a benefit of the doubt, that they have been deemed not worthy to continue living for fear of the evil they will continue to impart if left alive.

You and I will STAUNCHLY disagree on the death penalty.

It's the definition of cruel and unusual punishment IMHO.

One day we will become a species that doesn't kill its own.

Call me dreamer if you want. I'm not the only one.

 

[Further]

Laws do not protect you. They create the illusion of protection.

Nate, I’ve posted here a very long time and although you and I don’t agree on many issues I typically find you to be a thoughtful poster and one who, on other topics at least, constantly reassesses your views.

However, on this one topic you seem to have blinders on and don’t analyze the other side except to discount it. To say something is a knee jerk response when the issue has been front and center repeatedly for years, is disingenuous.

How many mass shootings in otherwise progressive nations have to occur before you reassess your views on gun legislation.

It doesn’t have to be a ban, there can be many measures that can 1) make it harder to amass stockpiles of weapons or ammunition and 2) make sure those who do amass those stockpiles are at least somewhat vetted. You can’t get a fully auto rifle without vetting and that doesn’t make this world worse and has not invited a military state. I doubt registration would either.

Will it be knee jerk after the next mass shooting? What about 20 shootings from now? When is it ok to say enough?

 

[riverman]

Kiwi's wasted no time addressing the gun issue...within a matter of days..good on em'

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I think I'd rather be shot.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1QQ08J

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Nate, I’ve posted here a very long time and although you and I don’t agree on many issues I typically find you to be a thoughtful poster and one who, on other topics at least, constantly reassesses your views.

However, on this one topic you seem to have blinders on and don’t analyze the other side except to discount it. To say something is a knee jerk response when the issue has been front and center repeatedly for years, is disingenuous.

How many mass shootings in otherwise progressive nations have to occur before you reassess your views on gun legislation.

It doesn’t have to be a ban, there can be many measures that can 1) make it harder to amass stockpiles of weapons or ammunition and 2) make sure those who do amass those stockpiles are at least somewhat vetted. You can’t get a fully auto rifle without vetting and that doesn’t make this world worse and has not invited a military state. I doubt registration would either.

Will it be knee jerk after the next mass shooting? What about 20 shootings from now? When is it ok to say enough?

I can't speak for Nate and I believe that I made my position pretty clear at the start of this thread, but I just want to say that I think Gun Laws are just the start.

The problem with hate crimes and terrorism is that it comes from a place of devaluing other people to the point that you believe their worth isn't equal to yours, and in many cases that they're life isn't worth anything. To truly solve these issues we have to re-educate adults and educate young people that they do have innate value but so do all the people around them. At least that's my opinion.

In the meantime, we should take whatever steps we can to keep guns away from people who will use them as weapons to needlessly harm others.

 

[Lanny]

Well I find knee jerk reactions and changing laws while emotions are high is a huge mistake.

The TSA and the Patriot Act are a perfect example. The airlines were fine before 9/11. It was not airport security that broke down. Box cutters were 100% legal to bring on a plane. We gave up personal freedoms for the illusion of safety and security. It never should have happened.

I have a knee jerk reaction when I put my hand over a hot flame. It's a good thing too else I'm gonna get badly hurt.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You and I will STAUNCHLY disagree on the death penalty.

It's the definition of cruel and unusual punishment IMHO.

One day we will become a species that doesn't kill its own.

Call me dreamer if you want. I'm not the only one.

Nice Lennon line!

 

[Further]

I do understand that legislation would most Mikey not have stopped this, or many shootings. However, there is a realistic chance it could have affected how many were killed if his stockpile was lessened. Or even better, it might have to this nut job and put him on the radar of law enforcement, leading to further research and just possibly then the plot could have been discussed and crisis averted. The chances of that happening might be low, but I’ll take a 5% chance of saving 50 peoples lives.

 

[jonnyboy]

I think I'd rather be shot.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1QQ08J

Agreed. One thing people never seem to mention is that murders have been steadily declining since our country’s murder peak in 1980. They are waaaaay down since then. People like to talk about gun deaths being up, which is true, but the means of murder are insignificant when your talking about the loss of someone’s life. Murders are going down and that’s a good thing.

 

[CupWizier]

Agreed. One thing people never seem to mention is that murders have been steadily declining since our country’s murder peak in 1980. They are waaaaay down since then. People like to talk about gun deaths being up, which is true, but the means of murder are insignificant when your talking about the loss of someone’s life. Murders are going down and that’s a good thing.

Deaths by firearm have been on the increase since 1999 (prior before 1999 not available). That's a bad trend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

 

[riverman]

Agreed. One thing people never seem to mention is that murders have been steadily declining since our country’s murder peak in 1980. They are waaaaay down since then. People like to talk about gun deaths being up, which is true, but the means of murder are insignificant when your talking about the loss of someone’s life. Murders are going down and that’s a good thing.

There are 3 types of murder...single, serial and mass....of the 3 single murders have declined since 1980 as has organized crime coincidentally...mass murders ARE on the rise substantially as are racially, culturally profiled murders. Serial murders are harder to pinpoint because they often cover multiple decades. Mass murder is defined by the FBI as 4 or more victims in one incident..