Religion Christians of the forum - what do you think is the true essence of being a Christian?

[MarAzul]

Do you think the words of Jesus (as reported in the Gospels) are the best guide to what it is to be a Christian or do you think the writings of Paul are the best guide? Because I've got to say that the stuff about being fallen doesn't sound like something Jesus would say. And the only Gospel you cite is John, which (from what I understand) is the most atypical of the Gospels, and thus deemed problematic by many Bible scholars.

Paul wasn't a big hit in Ephesus. His jail is a big attraction there.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Mexicans take the lord's name in vain by naming their children Jesus. That's the real reason why we need that wall.

So we need the wall to keep Jesus out. Got it.

 

[HailBlazers]

Presumably this includes Mexicans.

I'm married to one, why do you ask?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm married to one, why do you ask?

That's taking "love your neighbor" too literally.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

That's taking "love your neighbor" too literally.

Careful.

 

[HailBlazers]

Gullibility.

Perhaps you're right. Thought @Rastapopoulos was genuinely serious.

 

[H.C.]

If I learned anything about the essence of Christianity growing up it's accepting you're a failure.
While in turn not accepting others for their own failures.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If I learned anything about the essence of Christianity growing up it's accepting you're a failure.
While in turn not accepting others for their own failures.

The nuns taught me it was bad to be left handed. I was cured of that during the first grade.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I ask because I grew up in a country with no separation between church and state, and furthermore an official national religion (founded so Henry VIII could get divorced) so we had to learn Bible stories in school. And it always seemed to me, a heathen, that Christ was a pretty decent chap - all about giving away your property, turning the other cheek, helping the poor and washing the feet of prostitutes. I don't get the anti-gay, pro-borders, pro-private property stuff that some people seem to think is part of being a Christian. So I'm here to be enlightened.

The "anti-gay" stuff is really "anti-sin" stuff, in that there is a general resistance amongst the Christian community to that which the Bible identifies as sinful being glorified as righteous. However, it is obvious that most take it too far by elevating that particular issue above others that are no better.

The other stuff has nothing to do with Christianity; it's just symptomatic of the natural overlap between religiosity and conservatism.

As for a response that is completely unrelated to politics, in addition to that stated by @BrianFromWA and @HailBlazers, I see the essence of Christianity as glorifying God in all aspects of your life, however that may be accomplished. If you can bring glory to God by giving away all your possessions and serving the poor, then do so. If you can bring glory to God through a biblical marriage and family and actively proclaiming His work in your life, do so. If you can bring glory to God by serving on the mission field, do so. The point is that as Christians, we are called by His name, and it is our responsibility to bring honor to His name through our actions.

James 1:27 says "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." This dovetails nicely with Matthew 22:37-38 which HailBlazers quoted, and many other verses that support this concept. We are to keep ourselves holy (1 Peter 1:16) by following God's moral dictates (Ecclesiastes 12:14) rather than the world's (Romans 12:2), and we are to place the needs of others ahead of our own (Philippians 2:3), doing good works (Ephesians 2:10), all to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31) in the name of Christ (Colossians 3:17) and not for ones own aggrandizement (Matthew 6:1).

I do not claim to be a good example of this, so I request you please refrain from the obvious opportunity to point out my shortcomings in this regard. But I believe this is what God wants from Christians, and I hope someday to be able to say that my choices approximate this goal more often than not.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I request you please refrain from the obvious opportunity to point out my shortcomings in this regard.

Aren't you like 6'2"?

 

[Cippy91]

As I said people here just shitting on Christians, bitter ass people man. Yeah we get it you don't like the religion that's cool but there are a lot of good people that are christians and to sit here and shit all over it with your ignorant post is dismissive

 

[stampedehero]

A human should believe in an other world being (without promise of exactly 72 virgins-which could not be physically satisfying) so your good favors to others directs personal hope though this life to met him/her one day and avoid a lifeless or fiery eternal death. LASTLY, Avoid the money hungry brick and mortar churches and sick priests.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Perhaps you're right. Thought @Rastapopoulos was genuinely serious.

I was and am. Apologies if my attempt at humor offended you. And my implication was not that you personally were anti-Mexican, just that I have heard so many American self-styled Christians be in favor of deportations and Trump's wall.

Let me refine my question. Does being a Christian mean that one should look to the words of Jesus first and foremost or is it just the entire New Testament? Or can you in fact be a Christian with fairly scant knowledge of the Bible?

I ask because I can imagine that Jesus himself might disagree with some of the things that Paul (for example) says. For an analogy: Marx famously quipped about some Marxists that he was glad he wasn't one.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Careful.

? I genuinely think that's a harmless comment. Obviously it's a joke, right? The implication is that he married someone from a neighboring country JUST to honor "love thy neighbor", which is ridiculous.

Not saying it's a GREAT joke, but it's a HARMLESS one. Is this the political correctness I keep hearing about?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Can't we leave Trump and the Republicans out of this for a change......???

What about the Christian ones?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The other stuff has nothing to do with Christianity; it's just symptomatic of the natural overlap between religiosity and conservatism.

That's interesting. Why do you think there's a natural overlap? Because aren't the original Christians pretty damn radical?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

That's interesting. Why do you think there's a natural overlap? Because aren't the original Christians pretty damn radical?

Seems to me that's a topic for a different thread.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

A human should believe in an other world being (without promise of exactly 72 virgins-which could not be physically satisfying) so your good favors to others directs personal hope though this life to met him/her one day and avoid a lifeless or fiery eternal death. LASTLY, Avoid the money hungry brick and mortar churches and sick priests.

If you're saying 72 virgins would not be physically satisfying then we have to agree to disagree.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Truthishly, I could make a mere 36 work.

 

[riverman]

I gather you did not discover the perversion that put them on the wrong trail.

If you're saying 72 virgins would not be physically satisfying then we have to agree to disagree.

yet you forget....they will remain virgins and constantly complain they need new things....this goes unnoticed by most death dance fundamentalist bombers

 

[riverman]

Truthishly, I could make a mere 36 work.

you own a sweatshop?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[trailblazer18]

I was and am. Apologies if my attempt at humor offended you. And my implication was not that you personally were anti-Mexican, just that I have heard so many American self-styled Christians be in favor of deportations and Trump's wall.

Let me refine my question. Does being a Christian mean that one should look to the words of Jesus first and foremost or is it just the entire New Testament? Or can you in fact be a Christian with fairly scant knowledge of the Bible?

I ask because I can imagine that Jesus himself might disagree with some of the things that Paul (for example) says. For an analogy: Marx famously quipped about some Marxists that he was glad he wasn't one.

Knowing what Jesus did for you on the cross is the basics of the Gospel and where you should look. If you ask for forgiveness of your sins and believe that Jesus is your savior and Lord, you are a Christian. You can be a Christian without actually knowing the rest of the Bible. Reading the Bible, believing everything that it contains, and building your relationship with Jesus would be a "next step" (running the race / sanctification).

 

[trailblazer18]

@Rastapopoulos you are asking good questions. Keep asking!

Revelation 3:20English Standard Version (ESV)
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Matthew 7:7-12English Standard Version (ESV)
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

The true essence of being a Christian is that all are fallen with sin and fall short of being able to even be in God's presence, so that there seems to be no way to escape damnnation and eternal separation from God. He is so holy that a white lie is the same as mass murder is the same as diahonoring a parent in invalidating you of any hope of gaining eternal life on your own merit. It is only through the sacrifice that Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, made on your behalf, without you knowing or wanting him to, that you are able to be redeemed and enter God's presence at the end of mortal life.
I would recommend that, if interested, at your leisure read (can easily be found online) Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23, John 3:3, john 14:6, romans 10:9-11, 2 corinthians 5:15 And revelation 3:20. read them a couple or few times. Each time ask "what does this mean to me?"

At the end of the day, Christianity is about Christ and your relationship with the God of the Universe. If that's mumbo jumbo to you or on par with talking about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that's your decision. Don't rely on me or any other Christian (And for goodness's sakes, not a politician) to be a substitute for how a Christian should live. And remember that it's generally the silent majority that are attempting to follow Christ's teachings about loving God with one's whole heart soul and strength and loving one's neighbors, and not the attention-starved making news, that are likely attempting to model it as best we unglorified souls can.

You know, I did not want to even read this thread. The usual responses from those that refuse God just make me sad. Then, here I find BFW nailing it. Well stated, Brother.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

@Rastapopoulos you are asking good questions. Keep asking!

Revelation 3:20English Standard Version (ESV)
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Matthew 7:7-12English Standard Version (ESV)
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

Thanks, I will!

So, here's what I found when briefly looking at the major religions. There are versions of each of them that are institutionalized. Obvious example, the Catholic Church. That is, there's a hierarchy, and knowledge is disseminated from above, through a sort of bureaucracy. Then there are the "mystics" who bypass the bureaucracy and claim a direct line to God. Now this sounds a bit like Protestantism, but there are still experts and guides under Protestantism, and a knowledge of the holy texts is a sign of expertise. No, what I mean is like someone like Joan of Arc, who claims to speak directly to God, despite being illiterate. (The version of this in Islam is Sufism, and there are also Jewish mystics, and in Hinduism you have Gurus, as opposed to the traditional Brahmins.) This branch of the religions makes the Church branch very nervous, as you can imagine, because it questions their authority (witness the number of Sufi saints who have been burnt. Literally). Now, modern evangelical Christianity seems to tend this way. But how does this help with morals and living your life? Unless you can get God on the line literally any moment you like, how do you know what to think about (say) giving your money to the poor? Or whether to get involved in politics? Here's where it seems to me that, if you really are a Christian rather than say a believer in the God of Abraham in general, you would turn to the words of Christ. In some Bibles they're literally in a different color so they leap out at you. And again, it does seem to me that most of what he says is hard to reconcile with what a lot of fundamentalist "Christians" say. Is this acknowledged and dealt with? Or is it glossed over? Similarly, the stuff about homosexuality is either in the Old Testament (Leviticus) or in some of the things Paul says, and I think of Paul as an unreliable witness to Jesus's thought, because he never met him.

Is the line Jesus=God, so therefore whatever God says, Jesus thinks, and we can find what God says by looking anywhere in the Bible, including the OT?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Additional question: Jesus is the Son of Man. If that's not the same as the Son of God, what does it mean?

 

[trailblazer18]

Additional question: Jesus is the Son of Man. If that's not the same as the Son of God, what does it mean?

Let me answer this question first. The term "Son of Man" is used to show that Jesus, although being 100% God was also 100% human. This is important, as it shows Jesus took on all the same aspects and became a human just like us. He was able to live perfectly, without sin, which he had to do for his sacrifice on the cross to be worthy.

That is a short, to the point answer. I never went to seminary, so if any other brothers out there who may have a more in depth theological answer, please chime in.

 

[stampedehero]

If you're saying 72 virgins would not be physically satisfying then we have to agree to disagree.

If you are a spirit how could you get a hard on for use upon 72 virgins?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think of Paul as an unreliable witness to Jesus's thought, because he never met him.

Just want to point out that this is not a reasonable assumption, since Paul did live during the time of Christ and was a Pharisee training under Gamaliel. Just because he didn't become one of Jesus' disciples until after his death doesn't mean he wasn't one of the many pharisees interacting with him (from an adversarial perspective) during his earthly ministry.