Religion Christians of the forum - what do you think is the true essence of being a Christian?

[trailblazer18]

Thanks, I will!

So, here's what I found when briefly looking at the major religions. There are versions of each of them that are institutionalized. Obvious example, the Catholic Church. That is, there's a hierarchy, and knowledge is disseminated from above, through a sort of bureaucracy. Then there are the "mystics" who bypass the bureaucracy and claim a direct line to God. Now this sounds a bit like Protestantism, but there are still experts and guides under Protestantism, and a knowledge of the holy texts is a sign of expertise. No, what I mean is like someone like Joan of Arc, who claims to speak directly to God, despite being illiterate. (The version of this in Islam is Sufism, and there are also Jewish mystics, and in Hinduism you have Gurus, as opposed to the traditional Brahmins.) This branch of the religions makes the Church branch very nervous, as you can imagine, because it questions their authority (witness the number of Sufi saints who have been burnt. Literally). Now, modern evangelical Christianity seems to tend this way. But how does this help with morals and living your life? Unless you can get God on the line literally any moment you like, how do you know what to think about (say) giving your money to the poor? Or whether to get involved in politics? Here's where it seems to me that, if you really are a Christian rather than say a believer in the God of Abraham in general, you would turn to the words of Christ. In some Bibles they're literally in a different color so they leap out at you. And again, it does seem to me that most of what he says is hard to reconcile with what a lot of fundamentalist "Christians" say. Is this acknowledged and dealt with? Or is it glossed over? Similarly, the stuff about homosexuality is either in the Old Testament (Leviticus) or in some of the things Paul says, and I think of Paul as an unreliable witness to Jesus's thought, because he never met him.

Is the line Jesus=God, so therefore whatever God says, Jesus thinks, and we can find what God says by looking anywhere in the Bible, including the OT?

Yes, you may have heard of the term the "Trinity" or "Triune God." The Father God, The Son of God (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, 3 in 1. They are of the same accord. Jesus and the Holy Spirit do the will of the Father God. The Trinity can be a difficult thing to grasp. To simplify, take a grandma, we will call her Jane. Jane is a daughter to her mother, a mother to her kids, and a grandmother to her grandchildren. Jane is a grandmother, mother, and daugter, 3 in 1. Her mind and will in all three definitions of her are the same, but she does interact with her family from a different perspective in each relationship and they interact with her differently based on the relationship. This is not an exact analogy, but maybe you can understand. Essentially, 3 personalities or aspects of God. So yes, Jesus and God are on the same page.

The entire OT points to Jesus and the need for him to come and be our savior. I think you are asking this question to know if Jesus has the same thoughts about the Mosiac law, particularly in regards to homosexuality, etc...When Jesus died on the cross he fulfilled the law, we as Christians are no longer bound by the law because of Grace. But the law still does act as a school master. Without the law, we would not be aware of our sin and we would not know our need of a savior.

John 5: 19: 19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

John 12: 49-50: 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

Again, other brothers please jump in.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'd just like to point out that god spelled backwards is sly.

 

[MarAzul]

Thanks, I will!

So, here's what I found when briefly looking at the major religions. There are versions of each of them that are institutionalized. Obvious example, the Catholic Church. That is, there's a hierarchy, and knowledge is disseminated from above, through a sort of bureaucracy. Then there are the "mystics" who bypass the bureaucracy and claim a direct line to God. Now this sounds a bit like Protestantism, but there are still experts and guides under Protestantism, and a knowledge of the holy texts is a sign of expertise. No, what I mean is like someone like Joan of Arc, who claims to speak directly to God, despite being illiterate. (The version of this in Islam is Sufism, and there are also Jewish mystics, and in Hinduism you have Gurus, as opposed to the traditional Brahmins.) This branch of the religions makes the Church branch very nervous, as you can imagine, because it questions their authority (witness the number of Sufi saints who have been burnt. Literally). Now, modern evangelical Christianity seems to tend this way. But how does this help with morals and living your life? Unless you can get God on the line literally any moment you like, how do you know what to think about (say) giving your money to the poor? Or whether to get involved in politics? Here's where it seems to me that, if you really are a Christian rather than say a believer in the God of Abraham in general, you would turn to the words of Christ. In some Bibles they're literally in a different color so they leap out at you. And again, it does seem to me that most of what he says is hard to reconcile with what a lot of fundamentalist "Christians" say. Is this acknowledged and dealt with? Or is it glossed over? Similarly, the stuff about homosexuality is either in the Old Testament (Leviticus) or in some of the things Paul says, and I think of Paul as an unreliable witness to Jesus's thought, because he never met him.

Is the line Jesus=God, so therefore whatever God says, Jesus thinks, and we can find what God says by looking anywhere in the Bible, including the OT?

Here is a book you might want to read. "Who Wrote the Bible". It is pretty good in explaining the possibilities of how the books of the Old Testament came to be.
It does little to explain the New Testament and nothing about why the books, the cannon were selected. It a good point to start though in speculating why the cannon came to be.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Just want to point out that this is not a reasonable assumption, since Paul did live during the time of Christ and was a Pharisee training under Gamaliel. Just because he didn't become one of Jesus' disciples until after his death doesn't mean he wasn't one of the many pharisees interacting with him (from an adversarial perspective) during his earthly ministry.

But wouldn't this be like, I don't know, Joe Scarborough setting himself up as the voice of Jimmy Carter after Carter died? Granted he's come around from being opposed, but that doesn't mean you'd trust him to speak for him. Plus it's a little odd that he never recounts any incidents from Christ's life - that's all left up to the Gospels.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

But wouldn't this be like, I don't know, Joe Scarborough setting himself up as the voice of Jimmy Carter after Carter died? Granted he's come around from being opposed, but that doesn't mean you'd trust him to speak for him. Plus it's a little odd that he never recounts any incidents from Christ's life - that's all left up to the Gospels.

I wouldn't imagine that Paul was all that keen to recount details of his opposition to the Savior while writing letters to encourage and exhort the churches. I mean--would you?

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

If you are a spirit how could you get a hard on for use upon 72 virgins?

Why, a ghost boner of course.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

ghost boner

I'm soooo changing your moniker to that.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

HomersGhostBoner

 

[riverman]

Why, a ghost boner of course.

That's why someone invented Viagra

 

[riverman]

HomersGhostBoner

GhostBonersHome just flows better though

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

GhostBonersHome just flows better though

Or, TheSpiritOfHomersBoner.

I could open a bar.

 

[riverman]

Or, TheSpitOffHomersBoner.

I could open a bar.

or

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Or, TheSpiritOfHomersBoner.

That explains why your wife is volunteering to be the new Mrs HCP.

 

[riverman]

I just thought about it and true Christians here are praying for us now Homer....

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

That explains why your wife is volunteering to be the new Mrs HCP.

You're thinking of Mrs. Poker Dog the Dog Poker.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

JOSH DUGGAR: I DON’T HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR MOLESTATION BECAUSE IT’S ALL THE DEVIL’S FAULT

http://oppositionreport.com/josh-du...molestation-because-its-all-the-devils-fault/

 

[3RA1N1AC]

If you can bring glory to God by giving away all your possessions and serving the poor, then do so.

What's stopping you?

 

[Minstrel]

The true essence of being a Christian is that all are fallen with sin and fall short of being able to even be in God's presence, so that there seems to be no way to escape damnnation and eternal separation from God. He is so holy that a white lie is the same as mass murder is the same as diahonoring a parent in invalidating you of any hope of gaining eternal life on your own merit. It is only through the sacrifice that Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, made on your behalf, without you knowing or wanting him to, that you are able to be redeemed and enter God's presence at the end of mortal life.

And you are redeemed by accepting Jesus as your Lord and savior, right?

My understanding of this is that it actually doesn't matter at all what you do--while the Bible has moral prescriptions, adhering to them wouldn't be sufficient if you've ever done a single thing wrong (which every human has or will). Nor does "mostly" adhering to them matter, since a white lie is akin to mass murder relative to the imposing wall of purity that is God. The moment you've done one small thing wrong you've done everything wrong.

All that matters is that you are "saved" (or accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior) so that Jesus' sacrifice can apply to you. So why the emphasis on sin at all? Why come down on theft or homosexuality, when none of that matters if you've ever told a white lie?

I'm not a Christian scholar at all, so I'm honestly asking for clarification. I am interested in religion (intellectually--I'm not implying that I'm interested in joining an organized religion) and I have always liked civil discussions about religion.

 

[riverman]

I think spirituality is important to well being...empathy, compassion, love, all those greeting card themes...I just choose to take responsibility upon myself for trying to be a good human and lead by example....I think whether it's Jesus or Gandhi or Lao Tsu....healthy love for humanity is an enduring theme...I'll have to say I think Quakers had a truly Christian system together...non violence across the board...I also think Christianity provides a great alternative for folks who cannot figure it out without a guide

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Jesus said it best. The first and greatest commandment is to love the lord thy god with all your heart sould and mind and the second is like unto it to love thy neighbor as thyself.

I think if you display true love for god and people (love is also defined in the bible)
1corinthians 13
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

If we truly display charity i.e. love, then we really display a selfless character toward all our fellow humans. Every problem and point of contention would melt away if we loved eachother like we should

 

[MarAzul]

.I also think Christianity provides a great alternative for folks who cannot figure it out without a guide

I suspect you just added fly shit to the pepper.

 

[tlongII]

It is the ability to suspend your belief in reality.

 

[riverman]

I suspect you just added fly shit to the pepper.

best to talk about the subject...not me again Marz....you either have an opinion about it or you don't but no need to make me your suspect here

 

[MarAzul]

best to talk about the subject

Well, if Christianity is a spice of life for some people, that's good. But sprinkling it with disdain for needing a guide, is like sprinkling fly shit in the pepper.

 

[riverman]

But sprinkling it with disdain for needing guide, is like sprinkling fly shit in the pepper.

just piss off with your judgements....there's no disdain in any of my posts about Christianity and I think it does good in the world but not always throughout history....yours however have been filled with disdain for me for some reason...if you think the 10 commandments aren't a guide for lost souls....you haven't read the book...I have read it multiple times...Jesus is referred to as a shepherd with his flock all the time......sprinkle some perspective on your brain...maybe look up the meaning of disciple as well while you're at it....

 

[riverman]

But sprinkling it with disdain for needing guide, is like sprinkling fly shit in the pepper

you realize Jesus invites all to be guided by the Lord....so actually what your post means is Jesus is talking shit...very unchristian-like dude

 

[PtldPlatypus]

there's no disdain in any of my posts about Christianity

Not for Christianity at all, but it's not unreasonable to see a bit of implied superiority over and condescension toward Christians.

I just choose to take responsibility upon myself for trying to be a good human and lead by example....I also think Christianity provides a great alternative for folks who cannot figure it out without a guide

 

[riverman]

Not for Christianity at all, but it's not unreasonable to see a bit of implied superiority over and condescension toward Christians.

I'd say that's a matter of persepective but religion does preach following a doctrine.....my saying I'd rather not follow a doctrine shouldn't mean I feel superior to those who do...they just mean I chose to make my own path concerning my spiritual growth without an organized dogma to support it. I wish all Christians joy in life....I also wish all agnostics joy in life...you are free to believe in a heaven, hell or supreme being.....I'm in no way asking anyone not to....but really if you consider it.....the idea of God is one of a superior being calling the shots and determining fate

 

[riverman]

Not for Christianity at all, but it's not unreasonable to see a bit of implied superiority over and condescension toward Christians.

I think it is unreasonable to see that.....it's like someone telling me not to laugh in church

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think it is unreasonable to see that.....it's like someone telling me not to laugh in church

I fail to see the connection.