CJ for Beal

[Natebishop3]

With CJ in a trade and if you don't include Zach, Simons or 1st rounders there cannot be a real upgrade. Beal would be amazing, but also Wizards would never do that. Beal is better and younger so they can certainly find something better than CJ that suits their rebuild as well.

Beal showed last season that he was not a finished product, he has taken a big step forward as a player while on the other hand CJ has peaked and has been like this for 3 full years now. I believe he has moved one tier above CJ right now. They are not the same.

If we could get Beal without giving up CJ, and then flip CJ for something else... that would be good.

 

[Natebishop3]

I still think Ant is the future and CJ is the trade bait.

 

[CupWizier]

I still think Ant is the future and CJ is the trade bait.

Maybe we should wait to see if Simons can prove himself first before deciding to trade one of our best players. Putting the cart before the horse usually doesn't work to well.

 

[Natebishop3]

Maybe we should wait to see if Simons can prove himself first before deciding to trade one of our best players. Putting the cart before the horse usually doesn't work to well.

How exactly does Simons prove himself while CJ is still here?

Do you remember CJ's first few years? He didn't do jack shit until Wes went down with that injury.

 

[CupWizier]

How exactly does Simons prove himself while CJ is still here?

Do you remember CJ's first few years? He didn't do jack shit until Wes went down with that injury.

If he shows he is capable he will be in the rotation. If he is in the rotation then he has an opportunity to prove himself. It would be foolish to trade away a top level player before you know you have anyone to replace him.

In regards to McCollum, his first season he hardly played due to being injured. It was his second year he had a breakout in the playoffs after Wes went down and he made the most of his opportunity and was also much more experienced coming out of college. Would you have traded Mathews at the start of that season to let McCollum be the starter? In hindsight your answer would likely be yes, but in reality you would have likely screamed bloody murder.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If he shows he is capable he will be in the rotation. If he is in the rotation then he has an opportunity to prove himself. It would be foolish to trade away a top level player before you know you have anyone to replace him.

In regards to McCollum, his first season he hardly played due to being injured. It was his second year he had a breakout in the playoffs after Wes went down and he made the most of his opportunity and was also much more experienced coming out of college. Would you have traded Mathews at the start of that season to let McCollum be the starter? In hindsight your answer would likely be yes, but in reality you would have likely screamed bloody murder.

I have to say--Nate was also advocating vociferously that summer and throughout that season to trade LMA before he walked, despite the team having won 54 games and reached the second round the prior season, and the team being among the top 3 seeds in the west the majority of that season. If ANYBODY can legitimately be believed to have been in favor of dealing Wes to make room for CJ, it would be him.

 

[Natebishop3]

If he shows he is capable he will be in the rotation. If he is in the rotation then he has an opportunity to prove himself. It would be foolish to trade away a top level player before you know you have anyone to replace him.

You act like you're just cutting CJ and not getting anything back in return.

You trade away CJ for an equal talent at a position of need. Say.... power forward. Someone like Blake Griffin (just a hypothetical)

Dame
Simons
Bazemore/Hood
Griffin
Whiteside

That's a better team. Especially since Bazmore and Hood can both play shooting guard if necessary. We have an abundance of guard/wings on this team. I'm not even counting Trent or Little. We do not, on the other hand, have a promising power forward. I'm skeptical that Collins can play the four.

 

[CupWizier]

You act like you're just cutting CJ and not getting anything back in return.

You trade away CJ for an equal talent at a position of need. Say.... power forward. Someone like Blake Griffin (just a hypothetical)

Dame
Simons
Bazemore/Hood
Griffin
Whiteside

That's a better team. Especially since Bazmore and Hood can both play shooting guard if necessary. We have an abundance of guard/wings on this team. I'm not even counting Trent or Little. We do not, on the other hand, have a promising power forward. I'm skeptical that Collins can play the four.

Actually what I am advocating is let's see what Simons can do before anointing him our starting shooting guard based off one meaningless game against the Kings scrubs. We also don't know if Griffin is even available and what all it would take to get him.

 

[Natebishop3]

In regards to McCollum, his first season he hardly played due to being injured. It was his second year he had a breakout in the playoffs after Wes went down and he made the most of his opportunity and was also much more experienced coming out of college. Would you have traded Mathews at the start of that season to let McCollum be the starter? In hindsight your answer would likely be yes, but in reality you would have likely screamed bloody murder.

Actually it was his third year. Not his second. He didn't show jack shit for TWO years before getting an opportunity with both Wes and Afflalo out with injuries. I'm not a huge fan of CJ. Never have been. I don't dislike him, but I don't like combo guards who don't pass the ball. He'd be fine off the bench in a Jamal Crawford role, but as a starter I am simply underwhelmed. I have long been skeptical about Dame and CJ being paired together as starters. CJ isn't a spot up shooter. He needs the ball in his hands, and when the ball is in his hands, it's not in Dame's. I have been wanting to deal CJ for a star since before Paul George left Indy.

 

[Natebishop3]

We also don't know if Griffin is even available and what all it would take to get him.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothetical#other-words

 

[CupWizier]

I have to say--Nate was also advocating vociferously that summer and throughout that season to trade LMA before he walked, despite the team having won 54 games and reached the second round the prior season, and the team being among the top 3 seeds in the west the majority of that season. If ANYBODY can legitimately be believed to have been in favor of dealing Wes to make room for CJ, it would be him.

I appreciate your opinion, but it was directed at natebishop3. Also, what does wanting to trade Aldridge have to do with CJ?

 

[CupWizier]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypothetical#other-words

and? I know what hypothetical means so I don't need an online dictionary link.

 

[CupWizier]

Actually it was his third year. Not his second. He didn't show jack shit for TWO years before getting an opportunity with both Wes and Afflalo out with injuries. I'm not a huge fan of CJ. Never have been. I don't dislike him, but I don't like combo guards who don't pass the ball. He'd be fine off the bench in a Jamal Crawford role, but as a starter I am simply underwhelmed. I have long been skeptical about Dame and CJ being paired together as starters. CJ isn't a spot up shooter. He needs the ball in his hands, and when the ball is in his hands, it's not in Dame's. I have been wanting to deal CJ for a star since before Paul George left Indy.

check your facts. McCollum became a starter his 3rd year after having a breakout in the playoffs his second year. I also don't agree with your assessment of McCollum as he is much better than you give him credit for.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I appreciate your opinion, but it was directed at natebishop3.

I'm aware--I'm providing objective third-party analysis based on what Nate actually has said.

Also, what does wanting to trade Aldridge have to do with CJ?

Presumably, the premise behind saying

Would you have traded Mathews at the start of that season to let McCollum be the starter? In hindsight your answer would likely be yes, but in reality you would have likely screamed bloody murder.

...is that he would be loath to sacrifice present success for future development. His advocacy for dealing the team's star during contention status flies in the face of that theory.

Also, I looked back, and Nate was also advocating dealing Wes in favor of CJ as early as January 2014. So my point was that your "in reality you would have likely..." statement was not in fact based in reality, but only in speculation.

 

[CupWizier]

I'm aware--I'm providing objective third-party analysis based on what Nate actually has said.


Presumably, the premise behind saying



...is that he would be loath to sacrifice present success for future development. His advocacy for dealing the team's star during contention status flies in the face of that theory.

Also, I looked back, and Nate was also advocating dealing Wes in favor of CJ as early as January 2014. So my point was that your "in reality you would have likely..." statement was not in fact based in reality, but only in speculation.

That's something only the person being asked the question can really answer though. It would be like you asking me what flavor of ice cream I like best and hoopguru answering what I like best.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Takes care of that! Congrats to CJ on his extension!

Now let’s create an offense that takes advantage of the talents our backcourt possesses!

 

[Wizard Mentor]

1) Neil is done, he is not trading CJ. However, the deadline it is a remote possibility. We'll have more data on Ant.

2) I prefer Tobias Harris (he's listed as an SF, but I think he plays PF) to Griffin. Harris could play with Nurk without any conflict in the paint. Philly could also use the shooting. They make similar $$$.

3) Possible Lineup:
Dame
Ant
Hood
Harris
Nurk

#PantsSoiled

4) A trade of CJ for a PF moving Ant into the starting lineup would ALSO "encourage" Neil to get an actual backup PG, which would make things flow better in the 2nd unit.