CJ is averaging 32/9 with Dame out

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This is extremely skewed in Portland's favor.

Orlando is not giving up Gordon + Isaac for CJ. I doubt they'd even give up Isaac alone for CJ. I could see Gordon + minor asset (2nd round pick) for CJ though.

I can't see Atlanta giving up their young guys for Gordon either. I don't see the incentive for them.
Atlanta is trading Huerter for Gordon. It would probably be dependent on what they thought of Gordon if they'd do that but if they thought Gordon fit well on their roster I think they'd absolutely consider that.

Orlando was rumored to be looking to dump Gordon at the deadline. I don't think it would take much for them to trade him. Isaac is a good player and I'm not sure if Orlando would deal him but let's not make him out to be some dominant untouchable force.
 
Atlanta is trading Huerter for Gordon. It would probably be dependent on what they thought of Gordon if they'd do that but if they thought Gordon fit well on their roster I think they'd absolutely consider that.

Orlando was rumored to be looking to dump Gordon at the deadline. I don't think it would take much for them to trade him. Isaac is a good player and I'm not sure if Orlando would deal him but let's not make him out to be some dominant untouchable force.
I think that if Clifford were to have a say in player valuation as a defensive minded coach,it would be to keep issac as they targeted Aminu in free agency
 
Isaac is a good player and I'm not sure if Orlando would deal him but let's not make him out to be some dominant untouchable force.
Serious knee injuries at age 22 certainly depress a young player's trade value.
 
I think that if Clifford were to have a say in player valuation as a defensive minded coach,it would be to keep issac as they targeted Aminu in free agency
Yeah maybe! They do have a lot of hybrid forwards with Aminu, Gordon, Okeke next year, and Isaac. Who knows if they'd trade two of them?

It was just a type of trade that could deal CJ and get the Blazers under the cap using Atlanta. They'd have to find a team that would use CJ as a #1 option (that's why I chose Orlando) and that has something Atlanta might want.
 
I could see it as I proposed a Gordon or Fournier for CJ trade but I would likely insist on picks or Bamba to be included preference of Bamba
 
The thing is, CJ is a good scorer and can play point guard, but he has no passing instincts. He calls his own number first, second, third, and fourth before he'll begrudgingly pass the ball....... and then expect to get it back right away.
 
The thing is, CJ is a good scorer and can play point guard, but he has no passing instincts. He calls his own number first, second, third, and fourth before he'll begrudgingly pass the ball....... and then expect to get it back right away.
Yet after Dame's injury, CJ had 11 first-quarter assists in the first 2 games. That doesn't seem to fit that narrative.
 
Yet after Dame's injury, CJ had 11 first-quarter assists in the first 2 games. That doesn't seem to fit that narrative.

I would say the past 4.5 years of him starting would override a couple of games.
 
I would say the past 4.5 years of him starting would override a couple of games.
4.5 years of him starting at SG. I think he legitimately has a different mindset when he starts at PG.
 
4.5 years of him starting at SG. I think he legitimately has a different mindset when he starts at PG.

He has played PLENTY of backup point guard. Let's not pretend like he hasn't had the reigns handed to him.
 
He has played PLENTY of backup point guard. Let's not pretend like he hasn't had the reigns handed to him.
Backup point guard with 3-4 bench players. If you were playing point with Simons and Hezonja, would you pass the ball?

Put him with legit scorers, and he plays like a legit point guard.
 
Backup point guard with 3-4 bench players. If you were playing point with Simons and Hezonja, would you pass the ball?

Put him with legit scorers, and he plays like a legit point guard.

This is such a small sample size it isn't even funny. He has been out there with other scorers. I don't buy it for a second.
 
This is such a small sample size it isn't even funny. He has been out there with other scorers. I don't buy it for a second.
That's fine--to each their own. All I'm saying is that the claim that he has "no passing instincts" seems to run counter to what he's done as a starting PG.
 
This is such a small sample size it isn't even funny. He has been out there with other scorers. I don't buy it for a second.
Not sure how anyone can really deny that CJ's game and numbers look way different when he's not playing next to Dame. It's been just about every year, Dame misses a handful of games and it's like CJ's usage goes up, but his APG always go up quite a bit too.
 
Not sure how anyone can really deny that CJ's game and numbers look way different when he's not playing next to Dame. It's been just about every year, Dame misses a handful of games and it's like CJ's usage goes up, but his APG always go up quite a bit too.

But he plays without Dame all the time.... he's basically our backup point guard.

I don't understand why suddenly he's magically a distributor when Dame is completely out.
 
Don't know but it's how it seems to go.

And that's why you call it a small sample size. I'm extremely doubtful that it would hold up over an 82 game season. He is what he is. He has been this way for five years. A leopard doesn't suddenly change its spots.
 
And that's why you call it a small sample size. I'm extremely doubtful that it would hold up over an 82 game season. He is what he is. He has been this way for five years. A leopard doesn't suddenly change its spots.
But he’s a basketball player and role probably has something to do with it. I think his role when Dame is in, is score and thats all he thinks about, when Dames hurt he thinks more like hey I have to get guys involved. In the 2nd unit when he plays and handles the ball a lot he isnt in their to set them up, he’s in there to score until Dame gets in.
 
Cool. Another name to add to the list!
Sorry? Not trying to be argumentative. You may be totally right that, that isnt who is or can be for a season I dont know. Its weird though because it seems like a yearly thing.

Edit:
Sorry just realized this was a response to someone else.
 
That's fine--to each their own. All I'm saying is that the claim that he has "no passing instincts" seems to run counter to what he's done as a starting PG.
Good thing you're a mod because he blocked me for less than this.
 
But he plays without Dame all the time.... he's basically our backup point guard.

I don't understand why suddenly he's magically a distributor when Dame is completely out.

I've been called a CJ-hater several times and I certainly think CJ is overrated generally...

that said, I don't think there's really a mystery about this. To start with CJ's usage rate is likely in the 34-35% range when Dame is out. He has the ball in his hands a ton, and that will naturally lead to more assists

another thing is he obviously knows the burden for running the offense is on him so he focuses on getting the ball to teammates. When Dame is on the floor, he defers that duty a lot more. I do think CJ gets more hockey assists when playing with Dame, but that comes because Portland is usually running more offensive sets before breaking them off and settling for iso-offense

but as somebody noticed above, CJ's assists seem to be 1st Q and 1st half heavy. His focus on playmaking wanes as the game goes on. That's especially true if the Blazers are trailing. That's when CJ becomes more MeJ and his vision locks in on the hoop. Like you, I question if CJ as a full-time PG on another team could maintain his numbers over a season. He certainly wouldn't average 31 points a game and he's not going to be 2nd or 3rd in the league in assists. Defenses would adjust to CJ as lead PG, and he's simply not talented enough to warrant a 35% usage rate IMO.

still, he deserves credit for posing that level of production. And to me it's worth noting that his efficiency has actually increased a little while he's ramped up production
 
It's true that the games without Lillard are a small sample size, but I don't think you can so quickly dismiss that a player might well have a different mentality as a starting point guard as opposed to a starting shooting guard who sometimes slides over to the 1. In the second case, McCollum could still very well see "shooting guard" as his identity, even if he's the main play-maker for a reserve-heavy squad.

Looking at a larger sample size, for his career he has an approximately 17% Assist Rate. That's nothing spectacular, even for a shooting guard, but it's also not the Assist Rate of a black hole. Good play-making guards would probably be in the 20-25% Assist Rate neighborhood. Andre Iguodala (one of the best passing swingmen of his generation) has a career Assist Rate of about 20% (but was between 23-26% in his prime). So McCollum isn't exactly an Iguodala, but he's around what Iggy was doing in Golden State (and Golden State Iggy was hardly a score-first player on offense, but he used fewer possessions and was past his prime, which allows McCollum to catch up).

To sum up my view, McCollum isn't a natural enough passer to be a long-term point guard but he's a much more willing passer than he's often given credit for on this forum. Yes, he shoots a lot, but he plays most of his minutes beside the ball dominant Lillard--a lot of his role is to score off Lillard's actions. I don't think his game is selfish and I think that he's at least a competent passer. He can make the normal reads and passes, but not the step-ahead reads and passes.
 
The jaded view about CJ around here is clouding the pure fact that with Dame down, he's playing at an All-Star level at PG. You can bitch all you want about his poor fit with Dame, his defense, the losses, but it's pretty hard to deny that his play has been stellar. The last 5 games since the All-Star break, CJ has averaged 31.8 ppg and 9 assists. Kyrie Irving in those same 5 games has averaged 30 ppg and 5 assists. Kemba Walker's last 5 games show averages of 19.6 ppg and 4.2 assists. Kyle Lowry is at 15.4 ppg and 5.4 apg. Trae Young, the Eastern Conference All-Star starter at PG, is at 27.4 ppg and 12 assists. So, CJ's play as a starting PG would put him in the mix not only to make the ASG in the East, but perhaps to start. Once in awhile, it's okay just to say "nice job", even if you would prefer to see CJ traded.
 
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