CJ is averaging 32/9 with Dame out

[PCmor7]

even the wizenheimer guy coughed out *small* praise for CJ

I was scared

thought I died in my sleep for sure, never thought I’d see that

Are you sure you didn't die in your sleep?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Are you sure you didn't die in your sleep?

Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice

 

[oldmangrouch]

Yep, best we can hope for this year is Dame/Zach/Nurk coming back (the latter two in a reserve role), and either Little or Gabriel filling that backup 3 role behind Ariza.

I do think that if Zach comes back healthy he should start ahead of Melo.

I understand why you would feel that way, but until Nurk returns Collins is also our 2nd best center option. I would rather see him off the bench splitting his minutes between the 4 & 5.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I understand why you would feel that way, but until Nurk returns Collins is also our 2nd best center option. I would rather see him off the bench splitting his minutes between the 4 & 5.

Those two interests aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Natebishop3]

For all the praise Trent gets and the shit CJ gets, I'm surprised people don't call GT out for being such a black hole. Dude just has a one track mind and constantly misses the extra pass. Over the last few weeks after the all star break, his numbers are startling. Only 21 passes (not assists) per game in 34 mpg. He has the worst AST to Pass % ratio on the whole team over this stretch.

CJ, is at 40 passes per game over the season in 36 mpg (58 per game after the AS break).

https://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612757&sort=PASSES_MADE&dir=1

Different playstyles maybe? CJ is more of a Brandon Roy kind of shooting guard who likes to have the ball in his hands (which is why he loved Steve Blake so much). Trent is more of a spot up shooter, no? Not a lot of assists if you're spotting up on the perimeter and you're wide open when you shoot.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Is Dame intimating that CJ isn't the kind of player who can figure out how to be his best self without taking away from what others do?

 

[CupWizier]

Is Dame intimating that CJ isn't the kind of player who can figure out how to be his best self without taking away from what others do?

No

 

[tester551]

Is Dame intimating that CJ isn't the kind of player who can figure out how to be his best self without taking away from what others do?

No. I think that's reading into it a bit too much.

I think CJ sits back and is more complacent with Dame around. This is Dame telling him to be more aggressive all the time.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

On the one hand, Trent is excelling .

On the other hand, CJ has more responsibility than Trent.

In my big-picture-non-statistical analysis....
Trent is a $1.5 mil/year player playing like a $12+ mil/year player.
CJ is a $28 mil/year player playing like an $18- mil/year player
Trent is not near his ceiling.
CJ is.

 

[wizenheimer]

On the one hand, Trent is excelling .

On the other hand, CJ has more responsibility than Trent.

In my big-picture-non-statistical analysis....
Trent is a $1.5 mil/year player playing like a $12+ mil/year player.
CJ is a $28 mil/year player playing like an $18- mil/year player
Trent is not near his ceiling.
CJ is.

interesting way to put up

just a fyi....including this season, CJ's contracts make him a 31.4M/year player, for 5 years

 

[illmatic99]

No. I think that's reading into it a bit too much.

I think CJ sits back and is more complacent with Dame around. This is Dame telling him to be more aggressive all the time.

The Terry quotes and CJ quotes were even more telling. Terry is imploring CJ both now and in the long term to do more than score. While CJ is resistant to the idea that he needs to change what he's doing, he acknowledged that the coaching staff probably learned that he could do more. CJ is obviously not going to give up the quotes that easily, but I really like this development. Mike Richman said on his pod that those three sat down at shoot around to discuss how to get the most out of CJ.

 

[CupWizier]

interesting way to put up

just a fyi....including this season, CJ's contracts make him a 31.4M/year player, for 5 years

This year he is being paid 27.5 mil which is what his value is this year, not 31.4 mil

 

[Natebishop3]

Terry is imploring CJ both now and in the long term to do more than score. While CJ is resistant to the idea that he needs to change what he's doing

And there it is. That's what some of us have been saying all along. This has been a MeJ problem.

 

[illmatic99]

And there it is. That's what some of us have been saying all along. This has been a MeJ problem.

I think i framed that quote wrong. It was more that CJ thinks that he is fine in the role he's given. He said he has always known that he could do more, but specifically said that he thought the coaching staff learned that he could as well.

 

[Natebishop3]

He said he has always known that he could do more

But this right here bothers me.

 

[tester551]

The Terry quotes and CJ quotes were even more telling. Terry is imploring CJ both now and in the long term to do more than score. While CJ is resistant to the idea that he needs to change what he's doing, he acknowledged that the coaching staff probably learned that he could do more. CJ is obviously not going to give up the quotes that easily, but I really like this development. Mike Richman said on his pod that those three sat down at shoot around to discuss how to get the most out of CJ.

Now that I had a chance to here all of Stotts, Dames, and CJ quotes, I'm even more convinced that CJ needs to be moved.

Some of us have thought for years that the Dame/CJ pairing is less than ideal.

They've been working at this for 5-6 years now, with minimal to no improvement with their on-court synergy. It's time to move on...

 

[Natebishop3]

CJ - "I'm making 100+ million and I know I can do more to help the team win, but I'm happy with the way things are."

 

[Blazers Roy]

Yeah, because if Dame was playing with the same supporting cast and no CJ would you expect to lose 4 of 5?

Yes. Why not? we had embarrassing losses with both of them.

 

[Blazers Roy]

But this right here bothers me.

You don't understand his intention.

This is like Chris Bosh saying he could do more in Miami (like he did in Toronto) or Ray Allen saying he could do more in Boston (like he did in Seattle).

He's playing the role he thinks his team needs him to play. Maybe he doesn't want to step on Dame's toes.

That's why i blame Stotts for this. Our offense is ugly as fuck, there's no guiding in hand in place.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Also, you guys need to chill with that 28 million crap.

It's not ideal to pay a non-superstar this much money, but this franchise just finished paying 28 million a year for a timid Center who was afraid to shoot and a forward who averaged two points in the playoffs (Turner).

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Also, you guys need to chill with that 28 million crap.

It's not ideal to pay a non-superstar this much money, but this franchise just finished paying 28 million a year for a timid Center who was afraid to shoot and a forward who averaged two points in the playoffs (Turner).

You have heard "two wrongs don't make a right". Nobody is saying that $28M couldn't be worse spent (Chandler Parsons, Nic Batum, etc); that doesn't mean they can't still be dissatisfied with it. What was paid to Meyers and Turner has nothing to do with what CJ's contributions are actually worth to this team.

 

[wizenheimer]

the balance of CJ's contract will pay him over 31M/year

 

[tlongII]

But this right here bothers me.

Sounds more like a Stotts problem than a CJ problem.

 

[illmatic99]

You don't understand his intention.

This is like Chris Bosh saying he could do more in Miami (like he did in Toronto) or Ray Allen saying he could do more in Boston (like he did in Seattle).

He's playing the role he thinks his team needs him to play. Maybe he doesn't want to step on Dame's toes.

That's why i blame Stotts for this. Our offense is ugly as fuck, there's no guiding in hand in place.

I agree with this, and it was my takeaway as well. His comments about coaching staff were most telling for me.

 

[Natebishop3]

Sounds more like a Stotts problem than a CJ problem.

How exactly is Stotts gonna force CJ to play a different role? Bench him?

 

[Blazers Roy]

You have heard "two wrongs don't make a right". Nobody is saying that $28M couldn't be worse spent (Chandler Parsons, Nic Batum, etc); that doesn't mean they can't still be dissatisfied with it. What was paid to Meyers and Turner has nothing to do with what CJ's contributions are actually worth to this team.

It's 100% connected!

If the Blazers were in Miami i would have a different opinion on CJ's contract. If you could make room for better players in the future then sure! why not?! If we get rid of CJ and we can't replace him with a top 30 player then we're talking about taking a step back. That money will go to overpaid role players instead of overpaid CJ.

And what is "overpaid" anyway?
There are 30 teams in this league and maybe 20 players who can actually lead a team. 2nd bananas (and even 3rd bananas) cost max contracts, that's the reality of the NBA.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

It's 100% connected!

If the Blazers were in Miami i would have a different opinion on CJ's contract. If you could make room for better players in the future then sure! why not?! If we get rid of CJ and we can't replace him with a top 30 player then we're talking about taking a step back. That money will go to overpaid role players instead of overpaid CJ.

And what is "overpaid" anyway?
There are 30 teams in this league and maybe 20 players who can actually lead a team. 2nd bananas (and even 3rd bananas) cost max contracts, that's the reality of the NBA.

OK, so if I understand correctly, your contention is basically that even if CJ is overpaid (which you're not conceding, and I understand that), it's OK because we're in Portland and we're not going to be able to do anything better with that money anyway, so it's better to pay CJ $30+M than to give Neil another chance to waste cap space on Meyers/Turner-level players.

Do I have that correct?

 

[Blazers Roy]

OK, so if I understand correctly, your contention is basically that even if CJ is overpaid (which you're not conceding, and I understand that), it's OK because we're in Portland and we're not going to be able to do anything better with that money anyway, so it's better to pay CJ $30+M than to give Neil another chance to waste cap space on Meyers/Turner-level players.

Do I have that correct?

Yes, but i never believe i'm 100% right. Reality is a bit more flexible, i'm just relying on what i know at the moment.

I do want to say that if it was theoretically possible to get something like Matisse Thybulle+Richardson from the Sixers and then get the appropriate coach who will implement an amazing defensive system around Dame... then maybe i can see something like that working (if Nurkic is healthy) because it makes sense. But that kind of overhaul is too hard to accomplish in real life.

 

[hoopsjock]

OK, so if I understand correctly, your contention is basically that even if CJ is overpaid (which you're not conceding, and I understand that), it's OK because we're in Portland and we're not going to be able to do anything better with that money anyway, so it's better to pay CJ $30+M than to give Neil another chance to waste cap space on Meyers/Turner-level players.

Do I have that correct?

For all the credit Dame receives for being loyal to Portland, CJ has earned at least a small percentage of that same love. Sure he has flaws but let's not act like he's Dion Waiters or someone like that.

 

[tlongII]

How exactly is Stotts gonna force CJ to play a different role? Bench him?

I think CJ does what Stotts asks him to do.