CJ/Powell/Simons

[Scalma]

We have three starting caliber guards, yet none of them can consistently create for others. And because of how this roster is constructed, the majority of them see minutes at the three, where they’re all undersized. It’s very redundant.

We talk a lot about trading CJ, but to me, two of these three should go. All of them have more value than say, RoCo. Not saying Roco shouldn’t also be traded, but we’ll get the most value from trading these guys.

 

[illmatic99]

Simons has shown more playmaking ability this year than ever before in the past. It's reflected in his AST%.

 

[riverman]

We have three starting caliber guards, yet none of them can consistently create for others. And because of how this roster is constructed, the majority of them see minutes at the three, where they’re all undersized. It’s very redundant.

We talk a lot about trading CJ, but to me, two of these three should go. All of them have more value than say, RoCo. Not saying Roco shouldn’t also be traded, but we’ll get the most value from trading these guys.

Powell can't be traded

 

[Scalma]

Simons has shown more playmaking ability this year than ever before in the past. It's reflected in his AST%.

so instead of 2.9 APG/36 he averages 3.3. Thats still poor for a point guard.

 

[illmatic99]

so instead of 2.9 APG/36 he averages 3.3. Thats still poor for a point guard.

think it's obvious that he's been miscast as a PG. I was simply remarking on him having some more playmaking chops than previously assumed.

Powell, otoh, has Gary Trent esque blinders. But that's also probably a function of his role on the team. And he's untradeable effectively until the summer. While I like his attitude and grit, he too can move eventually.

Gotta be CJ if we want to make a move sooner rather than later.

 

[Scalma]

think it's obvious that he's been miscast as a PG. I was simply remarking on him having some more playmaking chops than previously assumed.

Powell, otoh, has Gary Trent esque blinders. But that's also probably a function of his role on the team. And he's untradeable effectively until the summer. While I like his attitude and grit, he too can move.

Gotta be CJ if we want to make a move sooner rather than later.

CJ is assumed. But our best asset after him is either Powell or Simons. And since neither is a playmaker, I dont see space for both, especially when Powell is never gonna come off the bench.

 

[illmatic99]

Given the state of this team and the amount of roster flaws-- everyone on the team can go. Put Dame on the shelf and gut the squad.

 

[TBpup]

It is what made Drexler at SG such an incredible phenom. Dame, as a PG, has still yet to catch Drexler in assists through almost 9 1/2 seasons and Clyde didn't start his first year like Dame did. But even if it's not a SG, this team desperately needs another playmaker who can create easier shots for teammates. It's why I think Simmons would be quite helpful here.

 

[wizenheimer]

Simons has shown more playmaking ability this year than ever before in the past. It's reflected in his AST%.

he's 98th in the NBA, tied with Andre Drummond, and behind Nurkic, Vucevic', KAT, & well behind Gordon Hayward, Sabonis, Embiid, Julius Randle, SGA. RHJ had a higher assist rate last season than Simons has this season. Caleb Swanigan had a 14.1% assist rate 2 years ago compared to Simons at 14.3%. Simons had a 13.7% assist rate as a rookie and has only improved to 14.3% 3 years later

it's his 4th season and he's had consistent minutes the last 3 seasons. So it's not like he hasn't had opportunities to work on it

 

[riverman]

Simons is Alan Crabbe

 

[illmatic99]

he's 98th in the NBA, tied with Andre Drummond, and behind Nurkic, Vucevic', KAT, & well behind Gordon Hayward, Sabonis, Embiid, Julius Randle, SGA. RHJ had a higher assist rate last season than Simons has this season. Caleb Swanigan had a 14.1% assist rate 2 years ago compared to Simons at 14.3%. Simons had a 13.7% assist rate as a rookie and has only improved to 14.3% 3 years later

it's his 4th season and he's had consistent minutes the last 3 seasons. So it's not like he hasn't had opportunities to work on it

Yes, he's not a PG-- but he's making better reads and playmaking better than we ever saw from him before. I look to his role on the team as a 6th man scorer.

Compare his 14% to guys who have similar roles:
-Jordan Clarkson - 12.9%
-Patty Mills - 11.7%
-Buddy Hield - 11%

all dudes in the same ballpark.

 

[Scalma]

Simons is Alan Crabbe

more like CJ lite. But he’s young, so he can still get better.

 

[illmatic99]

more like CJ lite. But he’s young, so he can still get better.

Depends on what kinda market there is for him in FA. If we can get him for a reasonable $ number, he could have value in a future trade as well. We need these 10-15 million dudes on the roster just for trade purposes to make the finances match easier. I'd probably keep him over the others for that reason alone outside of their games.

 

[tester551]

more like CJ lite. But he’s young, so he can still get better.

Which is fine - as long as he's paid commiserate with the role.
A 1-way scoring guard should be paid ~$8M to $15M in today's NBA. Paying someone $30M for that role (ie- CJ) is asinine.

 

[wizenheimer]

It is what made Drexler at SG such an incredible phenom. Dame, as a PG, has still yet to catch Drexler in assists through almost 9 1/2 seasons and Clyde didn't start his first year like Dame did. But even if it's not a SG, this team desperately needs another playmaker who can create easier shots for teammates. It's why I think Simmons would be quite helpful here.

I agree Simmons would probably work well in Portland

but Dame is only 243 assists behind Drexler while Clyde played 162 more games. If Dame was healthy he'd pass Drexler sometime in March with somewhere around 130 fewer games. And would pass Porter next season

 

[Scalma]

Depends on what kinda market there is for him in FA. If we can get him for a reasonable $ number, he could have value in a future trade as well. We need these 10-15 million dudes on the roster just for trade purposes to make the finances match easier. I'd probably keep him over the others for that reason alone outside of their games.

if it was up to me CJ and Powell would both be traded before Simons. But the things you listed also add to his trade value. I just hope Cronin isn't like Olshey and he trades the young asset (Trent) instead of the vet(s)

 

[TBpup]

I agree Simmons would probably work well in Portland

but Dame is only 243 assists behind Drexler while Clyde played 162 more games. If Dame was healthy he'd pass Drexler sometime in March with somewhere around 130 fewer games. And would pass Porter next season

Of course he will pass him. But as a PG for a decade compared to a SG for a decade, it took almost the entire stretch for a PG to catch a SG in assists. Nothing against Dame....that is just how good Drexler was.

 

[Scalma]

Which is fine - as long as he's paid commiserate with the role.
A 1-way scoring guard should be paid ~$8M to $15M in today's NBA. Paying someone $30M for that role (ie- CJ) is asinine.

CJ is overpaid, but he's definitely worth more than 8-15M. There are less than 30 players in the league that score 20 points a night, and if you wanna dive deeper, less than 10 at his position.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

It is what made Drexler at SG such an incredible phenom. Dame, as a PG, has still yet to catch Drexler in assists through almost 9 1/2 seasons and Clyde didn't start his first year like Dame did. But even if it's not a SG, this team desperately needs another playmaker who can create easier shots for teammates. It's why I think Simmons would be quite helpful here.

Agree the way you improve is making the game easier for others. Reason why players loved playing with Nash and Kidd they helped guys have career years. No one on the roster does that not even Dame

 

[wizenheimer]

Yes, he's not a PG-- but he's making better reads and playmaking better than we ever saw from him before. I look to his role on the team as a 6th man scorer.

Compare his 14% to guys who have similar roles:
-Jordan Clarkson - 12.9%
-Patty Mills - 11.7%
-Buddy Hield - 11%

all dudes in the same ballpark.

OK, although his 4 year assist rate track 13.7% --> 9.2% --> 11.4% --> 14.3% is only showing improvement because his baseline was so poor. Maybe the rookie season should be dismissed, partly, because of sample size, but still, that's not really good for a guy who handles the ball a lot. Better than Powell or Trent though

 

[julius]

Simons is Alan Crabbe

Not even remotely close to being true.

 

[riverman]

Not even remotely close to being true.

I didn't think so but the longer he plays...the more he looks like a glorified 3 pt shooter...which was Alan Crabbe...score enough to get a big payday

 

[riverman]

more like CJ lite. But he’s young, so he can still get better.

I hope so but right now he looks like a 3 and no D player to me

 

[Orion Bailey]

I didn't think so but the longer he plays...the more he looks like a glorified 3 pt shooter...which was Alan Crabbe...score enough to get a big payday

not even close. Simons has driven to the hole this year more than past years combined.

 

[riverman]

not even close. Simons has driven to the hole this year more than past years combined.

but he can't finish.....Crabbe couldn't either....Simons has been block practice at the rim...Norm is our only guard who is finishing strong in the paint

 

[Orion Bailey]

but he can't finish.....Crabbe couldn't either....Simons has been block practice at the rim

Still getting used to it i think.
He is a slasher and a dunker. Crabbe was neither of those.

 

[riverman]

Still getting used to it i think.
He is a slasher and a dunker. Crabbe was neither of those.

Simons hasn't been that at all......only dunks he gets are fast breaks and we're not a big fast break team....he's been super soft going to the hoop and super slow with his passes.....so the comparison is he is a good 3 pt shooter like Crabbe was.....only Crabbe was a better defensive player but Simons is not impressing me as the season moves on.....I'd trade him tomorrow

 

[tykendo]

Simons has shown more playmaking ability this year than ever before in the past. It's reflected in his AST%.

Simons has poor court vision IMO. He isn't getting the ball to anyone. And ,in many cases, he dribbles from a good shot to a contested one. He's thinking too much. He's developing, and shows signs of becoming a talent, but right now he's uber inconsistent. But he's strictly a 2 guard. I don't see PG at all in him.

 

[James lamphear]

The problem is Dame is the only creator on the team but he still shoot first PG. CJ could a good creator just how he can to spots on the floor but he also shoot type of guy. Now Simons don't see the floor well enough. Thing is these 3 players always was scorer every place they been that's how there built coming threw the ranks.

 

[Scalma]

Simons has poor court vision IMO. He isn't getting the ball to anyone. And ,in many cases, he dribbles from a good shot to a contested one. He's thinking too much. He's developing, and shows signs of becoming a talent, but right now he's uber inconsistent. But he's strictly a 2 guard. I don't see PG at all in him.

Yeah with Dame here, I think CJs ideal role (if money wasn't a thing) would be sixth man. Well, Simons can pretty much fill that same role, for much less. So use the surplus to upgrade elsewhere and balance this roster out a bit. I would take a lesser player for CJ as long as he brought some size, length, or playmaking. Cam Reddish comes to mind, but DeAndre Hunter could be available as well.