Claver is Portland's Pick (MERGED)

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Hey, Chase Budinger is still available. He was a projected lottery pick at some point.
 
How many stumpy scorers does Washington need? Did they forget they traded for Foye?
 
Minstrel said:
Yes, if only Pitchard cared as much and worked as hard as you do in evaluating draft prospects.
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Be as sarcastic as you like, but JVG said it loud and clear - rebounding ability in college translates into rebounding ability in the NBA. Blair is going to make a lot of people look foolish for passing on him.
 
I'd like to just point something out real quick:

TehChad on 6-23 said:
My gut feeling is that, just like last year w/Bayless, KP will trade up in the draft and get a guy that hasn't been talked about as much as others.
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:devilwink: :ghoti:
 
oldmangrouch said:
Be as sarcastic as you like, but JVG said it loud and clear - rebounding ability in college translates into rebounding ability in the NBA.
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A secret you and JVG know, but Pritchard (and every other GM in the game) don't know?

Do you think that his medical reports have any relevance?

Blair is going to make a lot of people look foolish for passing on him.
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Not as foolish as claiming that Pritchard put in no effort makes a person look.
 
Minstrel said:
I was responding to oldmangrouch's contention that Pritchard "mailed it in," which implies he put no thought or effort in. So your "non sequitur" accusation is even sillier.

Tell me, o exalted logician...does Pritchard's level of effort and research bear on whether he "mailed it in" (i.e. didn't bother putting any effort or research in)?
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Fine, explain the thought process and research that went into this pick? It doesn't even save the team any money, in the sense that he still counts as a cap hold....so why not put a little effort into finding a player that might actually help the team?
 
oldmangrouch said:
Fine, explain the thought process and research that went into this pick? It doesn't even save the team any money, in the sense that he still counts as a cap hold....so why not put a little effort into finding a player that might actually help the team?
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Perhaps they didn't see a GREAT pick and they just wanted someone they didn't need to worry about right away. This smells of trades to come, plain and simple
 
oldmangrouch said:
Fine, explain the thought process and research that went into this pick?
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I don't know what specifically Pritchard's thought process and research were, but I think it's ridiculous to allege that Pritchard didn't bother putting any effort or thought into what he does for a living, a job that he's shown himself to be very good at.

It doesn't even save the team any money, in the sense that he still counts as a cap hold....so why not put a little effort into finding a player that might actually help the team?
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ESPN's international basketball analyst said that Claver is a lottery talent. So it would seem to me that Pritchard decided to make an investment...instead of taking a player with late first round talent available now, take a player with lottery talent available in a few years. The Blazers will still want talent a few years from now. It's not like anyone who doesn't help the team next season has no value to the franchise.
 
Minstrel said:
Not as foolish as claiming that Pritchard put in no effort makes a person look.
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So, how's the air up on that high horse?

Why do you take it so damn personally every time somebody dares to disagree with the great KP? A few days ago, you were all in favor of adding talent through the draft - now not doing so is OK. I don't get it.

Edit: OK, so the answer to the last point is that Claver is a "talent". Sorry, but I don't see it. Even if I did, we need a back-up PF next season. If Pendergraph can't fill that role, what then?
 
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oldmangrouch said:
So, how's the air up on that high horse?

Why do you take it so damn personally every time somebody dares to disagree with the great KP? A few days ago, you were all in favor of adding talent through the draft - now not doing so is OK. I don't get it.
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I'm not being sarcastic because you "disagree" with Pritchard. I'm being sarcastic because you're claiming Pritchard didn't even make an effort, simply because he didn't pick your preferred player.

Surely you can see the difference?

I want the Blazers to take the philosophy of acquiring as much talent as they can, whether it is in the draft or the free agent market or trade market. I just don't claim to know better than a very good GM who's the best talent at #22.

And doesn't it say anything that Blair didn't go til the mid-second round? If Pritchard "mailed it in" and blew it on Blair at #22, why didn't another team jump all over Blair in picks 23-30? Did all the GMs "mail it in?"
 
Here's some interesting speculation from Dave at Blazersedge.com regarding Claver and how he might be used in a trade

Further Analysis: As an example of how Claver could help the Blazers, consider a trade with the Bulls. Say the Bulls want talent in return for Hinrich but not cost. You trade them this guy, who's a future talent but costs them nothing. By the time he's ready to come over ther bad salaries are gone and they have no qualms about paying him.
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INTERESTING TIDBIT: ESPN just interviewed the Chicago GM with the specific question, "How can you hold onto [Ben] Gordon and Luol Deng?" The answer? "We hope to hold onto Gordon." The only mention of Deng was that he was fully recovered and back in the gym.
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Could the ultimate goal be to trade the rights to Claver, Outlaw and Blake to get Hinrich and Deng as was rumored at points in the past? If Deng is healthy this could be a pretty damn good consolidation trade. :dunno:
 
Minstrel said:
I'm not being sarcastic because you "disagree" with Pritchard. I'm being sarcastic because you're claiming Pritchard didn't even make an effort, simply because he didn't pick your preferred player.

Surely you can see the difference?

I want the Blazers to take the philosophy of acquiring as much talent as they can, whether it is in the draft or the free agent market or trade market. I just don't claim to know better than a very good GM who's the best talent at #22.

And doesn't it say anything that Blair didn't go til the mid-second round? If Pritchard "mailed it in" and blew it on Blair at #22, why didn't another team jump all over Blair in picks 23-30? Did all the GMs "mail it in?"
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Why did Ginobli slide? Arenas, Boozer, Ellis, Millsap? Once a player starts to slip, some GMs panic and assume they better not take the player because other teams "obviously know something we don't." The Spurs are one of the best run organizations out there - did *they* screw up drafting him, or did other teams screw up in passing on him?

Besides, this isn't really about Blair....it is about whether Claver was BPA.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Why did Ginobli slide? Arenas, Boozer, Ellis, Millsap? Once a player starts to slip, some GMs panic and assume they better not take the player because other teams "obviously know something we don't." The Spurs are one of the best run organizations out there - did *they* screw up drafting him, or did other teams screw up in passing on him?
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First of all, Pritchard could have made a mistake and it wouldn't invalidate my point. My point is that it was silly to assume that he didn't put any effort into the pick simply because you disagreed with it.

Second of all, picking a guy in the middle of the second round is a different proposition from picking him in the first round. The Spurs could have made a reasonable pick and all the other GMs who passed in the first round could have done so reasonably. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Third, the second round is a crapshoot. There's probably some skill, but a lot more luck. The teams that got really good players in the second round clearly didn't know how good they'd be or else they'd have acquired them earlier to be sure someone else didn't get them.

Besides, this isn't really about Blair....it is about whether Claver was BPA.
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Sure. A reasonable question. I just think claiming KP "mailed it in" is unreasonable.
 
Small note on Claver..

Claver did not take part in a predraft workout for the Blazers this offseason, but he did stop through Portland last year for a workout before the 2008 draft. He withdrew his name from that draft after the workout, but the Blazers liked what they saw.

General manager Kevin Pritchard said the Blazers will not bring Claver to the NBA next season and will instead allow him to continue gaining experience overseas. They do like his potential, however, as Pritchard said he envisions Claver developing into a starter one day.
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http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2009/06/blazers_select_victor_claver_w.html
 
Minstrel said:
Sure. A reasonable question. I just think claiming KP "mailed it in" is unreasonable.
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OK, now that I have calmed down, I can see your point. Let me try to coherently explain why I feel that way.

Blair was widely viewed as a mid-first round pick. I think it safe to say that he fell because of worries over his knees. Fair enough - except that Claver missed extensive time to knee problems in Europe, and his injuries were of more recent vintage than Blair's. Did somebody drop the ball on Claver's health issues? Did Claver even work out for the team? I don't recall his name on any of the reports.

If the team wasn't concerned over position, why didn't they take Casspi (as rumored)? Everything I have read suggests that he is considered (in Europe) to be the better prospect. He cut his teeth playing for a better team, and he is only 3 months older than Claver. He is also ready to come to the NBA next season. If Outlaw is trade bait and Webster is still struggling to get over his foot injury, that would seem rather relevant.

Finally, there is the matter of the T'Wolves. Drafting 3 PGs and immediately trading one away? The message is very clear - the 18th pick was up for grabs. In the past, KP would have moved up from 22 to 18 and snared Lawson. Why did he suddenly go passive/conservative?

I don't expect you to agree with any of this, but at least I have made myself clearer.
 
So, is there a caphold for him that goes onto our books this summer?
 
yuyuza1 said:
So, is there a caphold for him that goes onto our books this summer?
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Yes, but it's somewhere in the neighborhood of half a million; not exactly a deal breaker -- I'd expect to see Freeland or Kopo's rights waived before Claver's
 
So, net capspace dealings prior to the FA signing period:

-lose Sergio's --> - $1.5 mil
-add Claver's --> + $0.5 mil
-lose Freeland and Kopo --> -$1.6 mil

Net: -$2.6 mil.

We add $2.6 mil to our existing capspace, then?
 
Just saw Claver's youtube highlight mix for the draft and I am even less enamored. Dude isn't even a PF. He is a straight SF..he looks good but we do NOT need another raw SF..Batum fills that role, and we have travis and we have martell and we try to play rudy there sometimes oh year AND we want to sign Hedo...yikes, just yikes.
 
MAS RipCity said:
Just saw Claver's youtube highlight mix for the draft and I am even less enamored. Dude isn't even a PF. He is a straight SF..he looks good but we do NOT need another raw SF..Batum fills that role, and we have travis and we have martell and we try to play rudy there sometimes oh year AND we want to sign Hedo...yikes, just yikes.
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Just saw one right now, too. The guy's definitely got some raw skills to work with. He's got that Rudy baseline alley oop dunk down at least.
Looks like a good shooter, didn't see much of a handle but it's a highlight video. He seems like a taller, but slower poor man's SF version of Rudy.

I wish we could see this guy over here in less than 3-4 years. That's a hell of a long time.
 
MAS RipCity said:
Just saw Claver's youtube highlight mix for the draft and I am even less enamored. Dude isn't even a PF. He is a straight SF..he looks good but we do NOT need another raw SF..Batum fills that role, and we have travis and we have martell and we try to play rudy there sometimes oh year AND we want to sign Hedo...yikes, just yikes.
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Batum isn't going to play 48 minutes a game the season after next and there's zero assurances that Webster or Outlaw are going to be who we want filling in for Batum when he's on the bench at that time either.

What we have currently is one near-lock at small forward. That's it.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Finally, there is the matter of the T'Wolves. Drafting 3 PGs and immediately trading one away? The message is very clear - the 18th pick was up for grabs. In the past, KP would have moved up from 22 to 18 and snared Lawson. Why did he suddenly go passive/conservative?
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wouldn't that make it obvious that he simply wasn't interested in lawson or that denver made a better offer for the pick? the assumption that in the past kp would have moved up for lawson requires a lot more assumptions to make any sense.
 
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