Clear the logjam, go for a championship (STEVE NASH)

[andalusian]

I am just not buying it. A prime time Amare was better than Aldridge is now. A prime time Marion was nothing to scoff at. Roy would take time to be effective (if ever) in the kind of offense that Nash thrives in. Oden will take time, period. By the time the team will reach their potential to work on a fast reckless offense - Nash would be way over the hill.

This team has the wrong coach and the wrong personnel for him to thrive in the time he has something in the tank - and he is not going to be around when they do enter their prime. It is just not worth it for either side (even if Phoenix thinks they can not make one last run at it with a motivated Shaq and Amare).

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I'd love to go for a championship, but don't believe that Nash is the missing piece to get us there.

I'm just not interested in giving up quality players to rent Nash for one season. There's no guarantee he'll re-sign with Portland.

 

[shamelessblazer]

I am just not buying it. A prime time Amare was better than Aldridge is now. A prime time Marion was nothing to scoff at. Roy would take time to be effective (if ever) in the kind of offense that Nash thrives in. Oden will take time, period. By the time the team will reach their potential to work on a fast reckless offense - Nash would be way over the hill.

This team has the wrong coach and the wrong personnel for him to thrive in the time he has something in the tank - and he is not going to be around when they do enter their prime. It is just not worth it for either side (even if Phoenix thinks they can not make one last run at it with a motivated Shaq and Amare).

We would not have to play reckless, that's just rediculous. Dallas did not play reckless, they just are associated with it because they were bad on D. Steve Nash has never played on a team with good backcourt players and good frontcourt players that play O and D.

Phoenix is making the move for cap savings and the future. They get some lottery level talent (Bayless), without ever having to go into the lottery and slash a bunch of salary.

 

[shamelessblazer]

I'm just not interested in giving up quality players to rent Nash for one season. There's no guarantee he'll re-sign with Portland.

1. two seasons
2. you're going to have to give up "quality players" down the line anyways (same time Nash expires likely)
3. The experience the players we keep from going deep in the playoffs w/Nash is worth something also.

 

[andalusian]

We would not have to play reckless, that's just rediculous. Dallas did not play reckless, they just are associated with it because they were bad on D. Steve Nash has never played on a team with good backcourt players and good frontcourt players that play O and D.

This is not ridiculous at all - just compare his stats when playing under D'antoni and his stats when playing on a team that does play some half-court including the current PHX team.

Steve Nash is a great PG in fast fast fast offense. He is not MVP PG in any other system.

The only think that is ridiculous is being unable to look at evidence and draw the obvious conclusions from it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Steve Nash not happy with his best buddies getting traded...

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

No Kidding. The Suns have lost out on so many good player.

*Rudy Fernandez
*Joe Johnson
*Luol Deng

It would be interesting to ask Steve Kerr about what he thinks of Rudy these days.

Don't forget the Blazers bought Sergio from them as well. Sergio might be a top 3 PG if he was running that team.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Anyone else think Nash wouldn't have too many problems finding friends on our team? I mean, if nothing else, he can go to the spaniards' houses and play soccer video games with them and Batum.

 

[alex42083]

Trading Joe Johnson was their biggest mistake of them all, not wanting to pay him and then going back to pay an aging Shaq even more. And getting Boris Diaw in return, who had a one good season and then got fat and 'underwhelming' on a fat contract they gave him.

 

[Tortimer]

I sort of like Nash for the Blazewrs but not sure he plays good enough defense. I don't think the Suns would trade Nash unless the Suns had a long losing streak and seemed out of the playoffs just before the trade deadline. I also think it would have to look like Nash wasn't happy and wouldn't sign back with them.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I think Nash already isn't happy. His team's losing more than normal, he's not able to play a 'beautiful game', they traded away his best friend, etc.

Add to the fact that Sarver is one of the most cash-greedy owners in the league, and I don't know if RLEC has a higher value than in Sarver/Kerr's eyes.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Anyone else think Nash wouldn't have too many problems finding friends on our team? I mean, if nothing else, he can go to the spaniards' houses and play soccer video games with them and Batum.

I'm the same age as Steve Nash, and while video games are just fine there's a pretty substantial age gap between him and everyone but Blake and Joel. In any case, him being bestest buds with anybody on the team ranks about number 23 on my top 10 list of things I'd hope for Steve Nash in a Blazers uniform.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Trading Joe Johnson was their biggest mistake of them all, not wanting to pay him and then going back to pay an aging Shaq even more. And getting Boris Diaw in return, who had a one good season and then got fat and 'underwhelming' on a fat contract they gave him.

Losing JJ hurt, but was understandable given the context. A few years earlier, the owner blew huge $
to sign Penny Hardaway thinking it was worth it to have a championship contender for years to come.
It didn't work out, to say the least.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm the same age as Steve Nash, and while video games are just fine there's a pretty substantial age gap between him and everyone but Blake and Joel. In any case, him being bestest buds with anybody on the team ranks about number 23 on my top 10 list of things I'd hope for Steve Nash in a Blazers uniform.

I forgot the /tongue-in-cheek.

 

[noknobs]

I watched a bit of the Suns/Lakers game last night and I have to say, Nash did not impress. On two consecutive plays he felt the need to make behind the back bounce passes. The first was easily stolen, and the second was made as the shot-clock went to zero, resulting in another turnover. His defense isn't better than Blake/Sergio, and his age and contract are worse. No thanks. We aren't living in 2006 anymore.

On a side note, I know the Suns didn't have Shaq, but at times they played some of the worst defense I've ever seen. Seriously. There was one play where two Suns actually stood and watched as Bynum fumbled a pass directly under the basket, went up and missed a dunk, got the ball back, and then dunked it. Neither Sun player even moved during this whole thing. They had given up about four seconds before Bynum even scored.

 

[roydezlaw]

I like Steve Nash and the way he plays the game and his sense of humor on his youtube videos but I don't know why anyone thinks Nate would want Nash. Lack of defense and turnovers makes him the opposite type of PG Nate likes. Steve's not happy playing for Porter and would probably hate playing for Nate.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I like Steve Nash and the way he plays the game and his sense of humor on his youtube videos but I don't know why anyone thinks Nate would want Nash. Lack of defense and turnovers makes him the opposite type of PG Nate likes. Steve's not happy playing for Porter and would probably hate playing for Nate.

Maybe. But remember that McMillan had a lot of success with Ridnour, who is essentially a poor man's Nash, even down to the defense.

 

[MARIS61]

Bake the cake.

Trades = setbacks at this point.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I would do that deal. It makes us a contender for sure.

I doubt the Suns would. Outlaw and Bayless are value -- and it is true that the Suns management cares about $$. But Nash is head and shoulders better than anyone coming back.

iWatas

Agree. If the Suns ever think about trading Nash, they aren't going to be thinking of players like Outlaw and Bayless . . . they will expect a big name back

 

[shamelessblazer]

I sort of like Nash for the Blazewrs but not sure he plays good enough defense. I don't think the Suns would trade Nash unless the Suns had a long losing streak and seemed out of the playoffs just before the trade deadline. I also think it would have to look like Nash wasn't happy and wouldn't sign back with them.

We can mask his defense better than any other team in the NBA (hypothetically) with Oden, LMA, Pryz, and we run zone a lot more than most teams letting Nash get into the lanes. He is a pesky defender, though not a good one I think his offense far outweighs his defensive deficiencies.

 

[shamelessblazer]

I like Steve Nash and the way he plays the game and his sense of humor on his youtube videos but I don't know why anyone thinks Nate would want Nash. Lack of defense and turnovers makes him the opposite type of PG Nate likes. Steve's not happy playing for Porter and would probably hate playing for Nate.

Mcmillan recently said this of Nash:
"He is still orchestrating that offense and getting everybody involved and (regarding) time, score and situation, he is probably as good as I've seen. That guy is a two-time MVP. Shaq did some good things; all those guys did some good things. But that show runs with Nash."

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8841574/Nash-rambles?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=73

maybe Mcmillan wants the "best he's ever seen" to run his team.

Steve's not happing playing for Porter with constant change around him but people overhype the running end of it, Phoenix is choosing to run almost no pick n roll lately. Here Nash would get to run the pick n roll a lot (Nate's favorite play), not have to shoulder the entire scoring load in the backcourt, and run on quite a few opportunities on rebounds and steals. You can bet guys would get down the floor faster and move w/o the ball more w Nash here rather than Blake. Just look at the difference when Sergio's in and multiple it by three.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Bake the cake.

Trades = setbacks at this point.

Blake = recipe for no easy buckets and a team perimeter oriented doing everything the hard (and relying on luck) way. Get Nash, accelerate LMA, Oden, Rudy, Roy, Webster, and Batum's development.

 

[Ed O]

maybe Mcmillan wants the "best he's ever seen" to run his team.

I'm not sure he met the best he's ever seen. I think he meant that Nash is as good as he's ever seen him.

Nash would ABSOLUTELY make this team better this year, and maybe next year. Long-term, though? It depends on what we'd have to give up. Raef and Outlaw? Sure. But Phoenix should (and WOULD) want a lot for Nash, because it would mean a rebuilding effort in a season where its fans expect a title-contender.

Ed O.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Cons:
Doesn't fit current Nateball, and Nate would have to loosen up A LOT.
Would he fit with Brandon? Sergio doesn't especially, and Nash needs the ball to be effective.
Would Suns want more than Raef + Blake + Bayless (what I'd be prepared to give) for Nash and filler?
Is Nash's defense bad enough that it devalues his wonderful contributions on offense?

Pros:
We have other players who DO play defense (unlike Amare Stoudemire) who would cover Nash's back.
Nash is one of the best ever at running the pick and roll. Imagine LaMarcus/Greg on a steady diet of what Stoudemire's been getting.
Nash is a GREAT shooter, not just three pointers (like Blake) but pull ups and essentially from anywhere.
Nash's contract runs out in 2010 anyway, so it wouldn't kill any important capspace.
With Sergio, Nash wouldn't have to play as many minutes and could be fresher.
He's old, but he's taken really, really good care of his body.
Fast breaks!

 

[shamelessblazer]

Agree. If the Suns ever think about trading Nash, they aren't going to be thinking of players like Outlaw and Bayless . . . they will expect a big name back

Not sure about that, their owner's cheap and Kerr wants to make his mark. He might have already done that with Shaq and JRich, so longer term high potential role players might make attractive to Kerr, then it will truly be his team and the fans won't choose between him and Nash (who wins that war?). In addition, Blake would stay out of iso guys like J-Rich and Shaq's way enough it might work out okay for them...Bayless could develop into a slasher for Shaq to feed, and (while I'd rather deal Outlaw) Frye probably fits well for them at 4 to stretch the floor for Shaq/Amare.

Blake/Bayless/Frye(or Outlaw) for Nash

they are:
Blake/Bayless
J-Rich/Barbosa
Hill/Barnes
Amare/Frye
Shaq/Lopez

we are:
Nash/Sergio
Roy/Rudy
Webster/Batum
Aldridge/Outlaw (or Frye)
Oden/Pryzbilla

with assets of: Koponen, Freeland, first rounder, four second rounders

don't even begin to tell us we "mortage our future" by trading Bayless when you have that many young guys left that are high quality. this is not the mavs trading harris. Who cares if Nash is old, he'll help our guys develop and make us more competitive now (which translates into more experience) while helping them get easy buckets and keep their composure (vs teams like LA or BOS), and as he fades Rudy and Sergio get more minutes.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Phoenix should (and WOULD) want a lot for Nash, because it would mean a rebuilding effort in a season where its fans expect a title-contender.

Phoenix would have to get a PG in any trade because they have literally NOBODY (turns out DraftExpress was right to be less than lukewarm about Goran Dragic) behind him. I think Terry would like Blake - he certainly wouldn't like Sergio much. And maybe the Suns would see homegrown product Bayless as worth a good deal. (And if they like homegrown products, perhaps they want Ike and Channing as well...)

 

[shamelessblazer]

I'm not sure he met the best he's ever seen. I think he meant that Nash is as good as he's ever seen him.

Nash would ABSOLUTELY make this team better this year, and maybe next year. Long-term, though? It depends on what we'd have to give up. Raef and Outlaw? Sure. But Phoenix should (and WOULD) want a lot for Nash, because it would mean a rebuilding effort in a season where its fans expect a title-contender.

Ed O.

I'm not sure it would mean re-building honestly. It would mean a clear new identity with a visible shift rather than a gradual one, and it would mean Porter's the boss, but I think Blake/JRich/Hill/Amare/Shaq is still a competitor for a couple of years and afterwards Bayless/JRich/Amare is still a nice stable of young guys to build around.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Phoenix would have to get a PG in any trade because they have literally NOBODY (turns out DraftExpress was right to be less than lukewarm about Goran Dragic) behind him. I think Terry would like Blake - he certainly wouldn't like Sergio much. And maybe the Suns would see homegrown product Bayless as worth a good deal. (And if they like homegrown products, perhaps they want Ike and Channing as well...)

exactly, win-win move, we have more than enough depth in the backcourt anyways with Roy/Rudy/Sergio (and possibly Koponen) long term and Pritchard at the helm wielding draft picks galore.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Cons:
Doesn't fit current Nateball, and Nate would have to loosen up A LOT.
Would he fit with Brandon? Sergio doesn't especially, and Nash needs the ball to be effective.
Would Suns want more than Raef + Blake + Bayless (what I'd be prepared to give) for Nash and filler?
Is Nash's defense bad enough that it devalues his wonderful contributions on offense?

I think Nateball would cater to this. While I've often been a critic of Nate's conservative playcalls I recently heard an assistant on the radio talking about how they've been trying to institute motion for a long time but it's a slow process and just getting the players to move is hard. I think Nate's okay with the breaks, he just wants someone with experience guiding them. While I don't think he'd want a fast break dependent team at all, I think we need to AT LEAST be average at converting on fast break opportunities to really make some noise. We have the guys to create those opportunities through rebounding and steals already and we could play a little more risky defense (which we've shown a little through lamarcus pressuring already).

As far as Brandon goes, he is our star and we should build around HIM but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect him to improve. If he's a versatile star he will learn to play w/o the ball a little more. Wade, Lebron, Amare, and many other young guys all cut better w/o the ball than Brandon and that's not a skill he can't learn. he's used to having everything run through him, but he can benefit from a lot of easy buckets (w or w/o Nash) by moving a little more and getting rewarded by our bigs (and passing guards in Rudy and Sergio). This would force Nash and Roy to both readjust a little, but both are great shooters and I'm not sure Nash wants to drive the lane all the time at his age anyways. I think with both of them being team first guys we'd be fine.

Essentially Nash would own the first 16 seconds of the clock to find an easy bucket, and Roy would get the last 8 for a quick pick n roll (or pop) or an iso.

 

[shamelessblazer]

after tonight does anyone agree we could use someone to help get us some easy buckets?