Collins Era over?

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Boone can't hold a candle to Deke and Deke only averaged 7 RPG in November of 2002. Twin averaged 5 RPG as a starter that season. Your suggestion that Boone could reach Deke numbers is laughable.</div>
Oh man...how badly I wish Deke could've worked out for us.

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*sigh*
 
OK....

1) I was referring to a fast break offense which I think better suits the dynamic of this team...your right Boone is not as good offensively as Malik or Nenad because frankly they have good jump shots...Boone still needs to develop his offense but there is no reason to believe a second year player who is just starting to get minutes can't get better. It mayt take time but Boone does have the potential to develop offensively.

2) Overall...no Boone can't hold a candle to Deke...Deke had an amazing career and for a time was one of the best centers in the league...nobody knows how good Josh Boone can become over time but yes it's highly unlikely he will ever be the player Deke was...

HOWEVER...DEKE SUCKED THAT YEAR! Everyone thought getting Zeke would put us over the top but the reality was that he didn't fit our style of play and he was in decline from the player he was. The argument is Boone now to Zeke at that moment...not overall.

your argument is laughable. you CANNOT compare a player in his second year to a player's whole career...maybe to a season but not a career.

3)Yeah Sean block shots, yeah Sean is quicker but currently against a Center Josh Boone is a better defender...sean is wayyyy tp light to defend a big body like Shaq but Boone was able to body Shaq up and box him out consistently...
 
I'm not comparing Boone to Deke's entire career, rather, I am comparing him to the 2002-2003 Deke.

Deke only appeared to suck because he was consistently misused by Scott and he had trouble adapting to the Princeton offense. There were times where Kenyon would go over and shove Deke into place.
 
Collins is just not good enough to do much at that 4 position hes older and doesn't seem to have much energy on the floor, as boone is emerging to more of a hustle player collins is just running back and forurth as the money piles up but that wont be the case for long
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 21 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I watched all the 2001 and 2002 games with Twin and I know he never put up a 5 game stretch were he averaged 9.6 points and 8 rebounds a game...this is the 1st real opportunity Boone has gotten and he's taking advantage. Collins may be the most overrated player in NBA history. Too say his athleticism was ever anywhere comparable to Boone's is an insult. Even out of College Collin's weakness was his athleticism and laterall quickness which happen to be 2 of Josh Boone's better attributes...the knock on Boone was that he was 6'10 and might be too small to play center and that he lacks a faceup offensive game.

Bottom line Twin has only gotten worse as time has passed and currently Josh Boone is a major upgrade.</div>
Five games is not much of a streak, especially considering the teams they have been playing - Heat, Kings, Knicks, Cavs, Clippers - are all sub .500. In addition, his numbers have been inconsistent 11/8, 5/4, 10/6, 15/8, and 7/14 respectively. Similarly to Collins, most of Boone's points are spoon fed from Jason Kidd passes or, unlike Collins, from put backs dunks. Boone is a solid defender, but is too thin and is able to be backed up easily. Collins was always a good defender with an NBA-ready body, so he can endure contact better than Boone. Plus his jumper was always solid, whereas Boone's range is from five feet in. Adding credence to this is his awful free throw percentage: 22%. That's totally unacceptable for any basketball player on any level. And coincidentally, Collins is shooting virtually the same percentage right now at the nadir of his career.

Both of them are different players with different skills, but their careers could be similar in terms of stats and overall impact.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. J @ Dec 21 2007, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 21 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I watched all the 2001 and 2002 games with Twin and I know he never put up a 5 game stretch were he averaged 9.6 points and 8 rebounds a game...this is the 1st real opportunity Boone has gotten and he's taking advantage. Collins may be the most overrated player in NBA history. Too say his athleticism was ever anywhere comparable to Boone's is an insult. Even out of College Collin's weakness was his athleticism and laterall quickness which happen to be 2 of Josh Boone's better attributes...the knock on Boone was that he was 6'10 and might be too small to play center and that he lacks a faceup offensive game.

Bottom line Twin has only gotten worse as time has passed and currently Josh Boone is a major upgrade.</div>
Five games is not much of a streak, especially considering the teams they have been playing - Heat, Kings, Knicks, Cavs, Clippers - are all sub .500. In addition, his numbers have been inconsistent 11/8, 5/4, 10/6, 15/8, and 7/14 respectively. Similarly to Collins, most of Boone's points are spoon fed from Jason Kidd passes or, unlike Collins, from put backs dunks. Boone is a solid defender, but is too thin and is able to be backed up easily. Collins was always a good defender with an NBA-ready body, so he can endure contact better than Boone. Plus his jumper was always solid, whereas Boone's range is from five feet in. Adding credence to this is his awful free throw percentage: 22%. That's totally unacceptable for any basketball player on any level. And coincidentally, Collins is shooting virtually the same percentage right now at the nadir of his career.

Both of them are different players with different skills, but their careers could be similar in terms of stats and overall impact.
</div>

Unfortunately I can't take the whole season because the numbers are schewed by Boone's inconsistent minutes earlier this year as some of his 3 and 4 min nights don't farely show his abilities...I will however bump this thread in 15 games when Boone proves my point. As for saying Boone backs down to easily...well he showed toughness last night and honestly the frontcourts in the NBA are lighter than ever.

Also...when has Jason Collin's jumper ever been solid...I mean yeah there's been a few games where it fell but usually he bricked like a mason.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 21 2007, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not comparing Boone to Deke's entire career, rather, I am comparing him to the 2002-2003 Deke.

Deke only appeared to suck because he was consistently misused by Scott and he had trouble adapting to the Princeton offense. There were times where Kenyon would go over and shove Deke into place.</div>

Ok...I get what your saying on that but my argument is that Josh Boone's game was better suited for that offense anyway and therefore his numbers would in fact be even better and therefore he could feasibly average 8 rebounds a night.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 21 2007, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 21 2007, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not comparing Boone to Deke's entire career, rather, I am comparing him to the 2002-2003 Deke.

Deke only appeared to suck because he was consistently misused by Scott and he had trouble adapting to the Princeton offense. There were times where Kenyon would go over and shove Deke into place.</div>

Ok...I get what your saying on that but my argument is that Josh Boone's game was better suited for that offense anyway and therefore his numbers would in fact be even better and therefore he could feasibly average 8 rebounds a night.
</div>


Boone can be a double double guy when given the Playing time.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 21 2007, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nets would need to play all double OT games</div>



Thats Bull shit and I think you know that.

It's your thoughts however I think they are very wrong and off base, i respect it none the less.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Dec 21 2007, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nets would need to play all double OT games</div>

That was clever.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Dec 21 2007, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Boone can be a double double guy when given the Playing time.</div>

He's been given the playing time, and has zero double doubles in the last 23 games. So, no.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 21 2007, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Dec 21 2007, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Boone can be a double double guy when given the Playing time.</div>

He's been given the playing time, and has zero double doubles in the last 23 games. So, no.
</div>

Too be fair I think he only has had about 11 games in which he was given real PT...4 minute cameos should'nt count.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 21 2007, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 21 2007, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Dec 21 2007, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Boone can be a double double guy when given the Playing time.</div>

He's been given the playing time, and has zero double doubles in the last 23 games. So, no.
</div>

Too be fair I think he only has had about 11 games in which he was given real PT...4 minute cameos should'nt count.
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Bingo
 
Nets could win the OT game yesterday

because Josh Boone scored some points during the OT.


And please do something in practice,
You can't say how great Allan Houston was in his prime,
sadly he is not better than Jacque Vaughn for now.

Jason Collins's prime was only 1 or 2 years in 2001 ~2003,
but after that, all is gone. Josh could have a longer time to stay in prime.
 
By the way, Boone's coach is Frank, and Collins' coach was Scott.

Boone gets all inconsistent minutes, and was not well-developed.

But he can still contribute right away when he was called to be a starter.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid @ Dec 21 2007, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nets could win the OT game yesterday

because Josh Boone scored some points during the OT.


And please do something in practice,
You can't say how great Allan Houston was in his prime,
sadly he is not better than Jacque Vaughn for now.

Jason Collins's prime was only 1 or 2 years in 2001 ~2003,
but after that, all is gone. Josh could have a longer time to stay in prime.</div>


Your right and I agree with you that Josh is and will be a better player than Collins.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Dec 21 2007, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 21 2007, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 21 2007, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Dec 21 2007, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Boone can be a double double guy when given the Playing time.</div>

He's been given the playing time, and has zero double doubles in the last 23 games. So, no.
</div>

Too be fair I think he only has had about 11 games in which he was given real PT...4 minute cameos should'nt count.
</div>


Bingo
</div>

Alright we can throw those games out. He still has zero double doubles in those past games, so will he definitely average a double double when given playing time? Right now you've got to say no, since (forget averaging) he hasn't gotten one in his recent slew of 30+ minute games.

Love the man, praise the man, but if you want to accurately discuss the man in a responsible fashion, you can't just speak on hype and baseless potential.
 
I don't care whether he has double-double, just like when Jason Kidd had triple-double and we lost.

We just need a decent number.

Props to Boone's contribution, please don't look for a Bone in an egg.
 
I don't know about whether he'll average a double double or not not...truth be told I think he can average double digit rebounds in this league but unless he gets a better offensive game I think he'll float around 7-8 points a game.

What I do know is that due to injury and lack of overall PT last season This season is his rookie season...I mean honestly until this year's annual Thanksgiving west coast trip he hadn't even really seen minutes whatsoever...then after the road trip he disappeared for another few games and really only came on strong two weeks ago.

I think Lawrence Frank is gonna give him consistent minutes right now but I don't know, this franchise has yet to develop of a draft pick into a rotation player under Lawrence Frank. Nenad Kristic was forced into action only after Mourning, Aaron Williams and Erik Williams were traded to the Raptors, Antione Wright rode the bench his first two seasons, Marcus's minutes were inconsistent last year and Josh rode the bench the entire year...as for Sean this year...well everyone wonders about all those DNPs.

Lawrence Frank hates rookies.
 
I dunno. I don't think Frank hates rookies. I think Frank just despises playing players who he's unfamiliar with. I bet if we had a 2nd year Antoine with the team, and Kelenna Azuibuke, Frank would definitely play Antoine and not Kelenna, no matter how much better Kelenna is.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 21 2007, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Dec 21 2007, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Boone can be a double double guy when given the Playing time.</div>

He's been given the playing time, and has zero double doubles in the last 23 games. So, no.
</div>

15 and 12 mid way through 3rd quarter tonight.
guess that idea is shot to shit.
 
Josh Boone's final numbers:

19 points, 13 rebounds (8 offensive), 2 assists, 2 steals and 1 block 1

Ladies and Gentleman we have a starting center...first double double of the season anyone want to compare him to a young Jason Collins now?
 
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