Conley to the Jazz

[illmatic99]

BTW, if you look at the contracts, the Korver + Crowder deals approximately equal ET's deal. (I know one of you nitpickers will call me out on the Korver non-guarantee portion, but for all intents and purposes, it's the same).

So ET + Simons + 25 + future first should get us a borderline All Star at a position of need who has another two years or so left on a somewhat bloated contract.

Lamarcus Aldridge anyone? How about Derozan?

 

[GDiama]

I think this is underrating Dame by a bunch. One could argue that Mitchell's ceiling trumps CJ's "now" production delta (CJ's a better shooter, DM's a better defender and a "lead" guard at 23 and should get some credit for that) but Gobert is not > Nurk by anything close to Dame > Conley. And I'm a Conley fan.

Ι don't see how Gobert is not > Nurk and not even considering broken leg Nurk. Gobert is two times All-Nba

 

[tlongII]

Conley always kills us so I don't like this.

 

[B-Roy]

I found these two comments interesting from their forum. (and True)

"I was honestly about to try to be positive until I saw the details of the picks and realized Conley can ET 20-21 if he wants thus making him possibly a one year rental along with taking much of the cap space for this off-season."

"We also lost out spacing PF in Crowder. We’re all disappointed he didn’t play better. But the Jazz have great numbers when he is on the floor.
If we don’t get a better replacement for Jae were screwed. We HAVE to get a player who can space the floor."

To add to this I think Mitchell plays best when the ball is in his hands.....running their offense. Conley is not used to that.

You can't really look at any move in a vacuum. I didn't realize Conley had an ETO. That actually hurts his value IMO. If he has a good year he's definitely opting out to get more guaranteed dollars through his declining years.

But I don't get the hate on this deal. Utah's biggest problem in the playoffs is they had no offensive creators besides Mitchell, who isn't that great anyways. Utah basically pounded sand against the Rockets because they were just so easy to defend. Give the ball to Mitchell and hope for something good. This move directly addresses that, and if you believe in Quin Snyder, you can believe he'll find ways to integrate both players.

Crowder was a "spacing" PF only because the Jazz had literally no one else to fill out that position. He shots 33% from 3.....for reference Aminu shot 34%....

They have Favors's 16 million contract to dangle for a spacing PF. If no takers, they can waive him and find one on the market. There will be spacing forwards available, and probably for cheap once the dust settles.

I like that the Jazz are taking the proactive approach in reshaping their team to address the weaknesses they came across last year, as opposed to standing pat and hoping internal development takes over...

 

[BrianFromWA]

Ι don't see how Gobert is not > Nurk and not even considering broken leg Nurk. Gobert is two times All-Nba

I didn't say he wasn't better than Nurk. I said he's not better than Nurk by anything close to Dame > Conley.

 

[B-Roy]

BTW, if you look at the contracts, the Korver + Crowder deals approximately equal ET's deal. (I know one of you nitpickers will call me out on the Korver non-guarantee portion, but for all intents and purposes, it's the same).

So ET + Simons + 25 + future first should get us a borderline All Star at a position of need who has another two years or so left on a somewhat bloated contract.

Lamarcus Aldridge anyone? How about Derozan?

It's really not after they waive Korver though. Will be around 11M vs 18M (ET). And Crowder is a useful player, especially at that contract. He can easily be moved at the deadline for future draft assets.

 

[illmatic99]

It's really not after they waive Korver though. Will be around 11M vs 18M (ET). And Crowder is a useful player, especially at that contract. He can easily be moved at the deadline for future draft assets.

Not sure why they would waive Korver. If Crowder can be flipped at the deadline, perhaps ET can as well?

 

[RR7]

It's really not after they waive Korver though. Will be around 11M vs 18M (ET). And Crowder is a useful player, especially at that contract. He can easily be moved at the deadline for future draft assets.

They need to guarantee Korver to use his full salary in the deal.

 

[illmatic99]

To add to this I think Mitchell plays best when the ball is in his hands.....running their offense. Conley is not used to that.

This is the point that is key I think.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Hate the merge police

 

[B-Roy]

They need to guarantee Korver to use his full salary in the deal.

The trade is to be completed on July 6th:

Korver's deal needs to be guaranteed by the 7th.

Don't see why this is an issue?

 

[oldmangrouch]

A small market team makes a significant move? A team makes a move that has some degree of risk associated with it? Is that even legal????

 

[B-Roy]

Not sure why they would waive Korver. If Crowder can be flipped at the deadline, perhaps ET can as well?

Crowder is getting paid 8M.

ET is 18M.

Hark/Leonard is 11M.

It will be much easier for a contending team to find a deal for Crowder's contract.

Also ignores the fact that Crowder is a useful player which is why someone would want him in the first place. ET/Leonard/Harkless are not.

 

[hoopsjock]

The trade is to be completed on July 6th:

Korver's deal needs to be guaranteed by the 7th.

Don't see why this is an issue?

As of last year there are new rules that if you trade a non/partial guaranteed player his contract only counts as the non-guaranteed amount for it to work to prevent teams from cutting salary that way. The math of this trade likely needs Korver to be guaranteed for it to work.

 

[illmatic99]

Crowder is getting paid 8M.

ET is 18M.

Hark/Leonard is 11M.

It will be much easier for a contending team to find a deal for Crowder's contract.

Also ignores the fact that Crowder is a useful player which is why someone would want him in the first place. ET/Leonard/Harkless are not.

Didn't Meyers just drop 30 in an elimination game in the conference finals? I'd call that pretty useful.

 

[B-Roy]

Didn't Meyers just drop 30 in an elimination game in the conference finals?

Oh boy. Let's not go down this road again.

 

[illmatic99]

Oh boy. Let's not go down this road again.

Your point is understandable, but Crowder isn't some world beater.

 

[B-Roy]

As of last year there are new rules that if you trade a non/partial guaranteed player his contract only counts as the non-guaranteed amount for it to work to prevent teams from cutting salary that way. The math of this trade likely needs Korver to be guaranteed for it to work.

The Jazz have the room to absorb Conley's deal as an under the cap team, provided Favors is waived by the 6th.

 

[RR7]

The trade is to be completed on July 6th:

Korver's deal needs to be guaranteed by the 7th.

Don't see why this is an issue?

New rules in the cba, for all new deals, contracts can only be traded for guaranteed amount.

 

[B-Roy]

Your point is understandable, but Crowder isn't some world beater.

The point wasn't that Crowder is some great player. It's that he is an okay player AND his contract is more movable. The other three are worse players with larger contracts, making it less likely to find a deal.

 

[illmatic99]

We keep going down this rabbit hole but are missing the main point of of my initial post.

Who is our Conley? And do we have the equivalent pieces to get him?

 

[B-Roy]

New rules in the cba, for all new deals, contracts can only be traded for guaranteed amount.

I wasn't aware of this rule but I did some research and it's not 100% true:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/how-non-guaranteed-salaries-will-affect-trades-in-new-cba.html

I haven't done the math with regards to this trade yet but I think there is a scenario where they don't need Korver's salary to count for 7.5 million if Favors is waived or moved before the 6th (his guarantee date is the 6th as well).

Freaking CBA.

 

[B-Roy]

We keep going down this rabbit hole but are missing the main point of of my initial post.

Who is our Conley? And do we have the equivalent pieces to get him?

Looking for exact equivalence - and you're not going to find it. The same player can have different values for different teams. Love and Griffin are both plausible depending on how much we're willing to give up and whether or not those teams want to move them in the first place.

 

[RR7]

I wasn't aware of this rule but I did some research and it's not 100% true:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/how-non-guaranteed-salaries-will-affect-trades-in-new-cba.html

I haven't done the math with regards to this trade yet but I think there is a scenario where they don't need Korver's salary to count for 7.5 million if Favors is waived or moved before the 6th (his guarantee date is the 6th as well).

Freaking CBA.

I think that's technically true, but I imagine they're interested in either bringing ba k favors, or trying to move him for something else. Otherwise, instead of Korver, crowder, allen, the deal is Korver, crowder, favors, allen, picks, which is much worse. If they werent using his salary, I dont believe they would bother including him

 

[RR7]

We keep going down this rabbit hole but are missing the main point of of my initial post.

Who is our Conley? And do we have the equivalent pieces to get him?

I'm sure theres a few we somehow havent discussed here, but otherwise, I think you're looking at the same list hashed out in here many times. Love, griffin, aldridge, porter, a few others.
Of them, love fits the scenario most because hes older on a rebuilding team.

 

[illmatic99]

Looking for exact equivalence - and you're not going to find it. The same player can have different values for different teams. Love and Griffin are both plausible depending on how much we're willing to give up and whether or not those teams want to move them in the first place.

I'm sure theres a few we somehow havent discussed here, but otherwise, I think you're looking at the same list hashed out in here many times. Love, griffin, aldridge, porter, a few others.
Of them, love fits the scenario most because hes older on a rebuilding team.

I think Love/Porter are the only ones currently on teams that would be willing to let em go for picks. I know we've had interest in Porter before. Wonder what CHI thinks.

 

[B-Roy]

I think that's technically true, but I imagine they're interested in either bringing ba k favors, or trying to move him for something else. Otherwise, instead of Korver, crowder, allen, the deal is Korver, crowder, favors, allen, picks, which is much worse. If they werent using his salary, I dont believe they would bother including him

That's fair. The salary amount is probably not that important for Memphis who is rebuilding anyways.

Against the original point though, it helps that Crowder and Korver are two separate contracts, as opposed to one.

 

[illmatic99]

After the trade to CHI in 15 games, Porter's stats:

33 mpg, 17.5 ppg, 5.5 rebs, 2.7 rebs, 1.2 stl on 48% FG, 49% from 3, 91% FT, 18 PER. I did a deep dive on his corner 3pt shooting earlier this spring and there's couldn't be a better fit for us basketball wise. He's not a star, but will be making $ like one. These numbers are too distant from what he's put up the rest of his career in WAS, so it's not much of an anomaly.

I still kinda like him better than Wiggins/Love/etc.

 

[B-Roy]

I think Love/Porter are the only ones currently on teams that would be willing to let em go for picks. I know we've had interest in Porter before. Wonder what CHI thinks.

They got Porter for expirings (at least from the Bulls perspective, they were never going to resign Portis). Flipping him for some picks would mean they made a profit, but he played well with them, and fits their age timeline with regards to the rest of their core.

I think Love and Griffin are more plausible. Can throw Haywards name in there as well depending on how you feel about him.

I don't think Detroit WANTS to move Griffin now(for whatever reason), but it's just a matter of when with him.

 

[RR7]

I think Love/Porter are the only ones currently on teams that would be willing to let em go for picks. I know we've had interest in Porter before. Wonder what CHI thinks.

Yeah, with porter, i just dont see why chicago would move off of him. Yes, hes overpaid, but they knew that when they traded for him. If they want cap relief, they'd have been better off keeping parker around.
They still need to hit the salary floor, they have a super low payroll, and he only has 1 year beyond this. I'd live to get him, I just doubt they move him.