Connecticut School Shooting

[julius]

Handguns are the most dangerous actually because you can conceal them easy

THat is true.

is there a list of the shootings (historically) that involved hand guns? I think, and I freely admit I might be completely wrong with this, that the people who do these actions, aren't only using hand guns.

I know that the vast majority of gun owners are law abiding people who would never point a gun at another person. But I also think that the vast majority of gun owners would still be able to own guns and would still own guns, if certain guns weren't available to them.

Not sure why civilians have access to bullet proof vests, or some of the guns that the military or police have access too (or a variant of those guns).

 

[magnifier661]

THat is true.

is there a list of the shootings (historically) that involved hand guns? I think, and I freely admit I might be completely wrong with this, that the people who do these actions, aren't only using hand guns.

I know that the vast majority of gun owners are law abiding people who would never point a gun at another person. But I also think that the vast majority of gun owners would still be able to own guns and would still own guns, if certain guns weren't available to them.

Not sure why civilians have access to bullet proof vests, or some of the guns that the military or police have access too (or a variant of those guns).

Yeah that link I just posted. It's from the FBI and handguns amount to 68% of all homicides in 2010.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Nonsense. If you know the person well or live with them you will know when their mental state needs attention. The closeness/loyalty factor keeps them from telling anyone.

The problem is there's not much one can do about it, since treating mental illness is expensive and usually ineffective in the long run anyway, and can only be forced on someone with a court order.

It is easy to play Monday morning QB and blame all of the people around the people committing these crimes. However,I would say there are many people with the same warning signs in all of our lives. Ben Davis comes.to mind.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

is there a list of the shootings (historically) that involved hand guns?

best i could find right off

 

[Denny Crane]

A person might want a vest for protection. Seems obvious. Afraid of gang shootings? Carry around valuables (like diamonds, etc.)?

 

[magnifier661]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl11.xls

This table is actually very detailed from the FBI

 

[julius]

Yeah that link I just posted. It's from the FBI and handguns amount to 68% of all homicides in 2010.

Not sure if homicides are necessarily what i'm talking about though. I would think most of those are run of the mill crimes (for lack of a better phrase right now), and not killings.

And yes, I understand that the amount of these types of murders aren't high and that the impact on our culture they have is high, but I'm not sure how limiting certain gun sales or improving the background check/cost of certain weapons, would have an overall negative impact on the average gun owner.

Just like how not all cars cost the same, why not make assault rifles/semi automatic rifles prohibitively expensive?

If the gun is too expensive for you to buy, maybe you don't actually need to buy it. Much like a Porsche is way too expensive for me to buy so I don't actually need it.

However, Porsche's weren't designed with the sole purpose of killing something.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

We had this problem with people going "postal" and have not had one of those recently. Maybe there is something.to learn there.

 

[julius]

A person might want a vest for protection. Seems obvious. Afraid of gang shootings? Carry around valuables (like diamonds, etc.)?

really, thats what you're going with?

 

[magnifier661]

Not sure if homicides are necessarily what i'm talking about though. I would think most of those are run of the mill crimes (for lack of a better phrase right now), and not killings.

And yes, I understand that the amount of these types of murders aren't high and that the impact on our culture they have is high, but I'm not sure how limiting certain gun sales or improving the background check/cost of certain weapons, would have an overall negative impact on the average gun owner.

Just like how not all cars cost the same, why not make assault rifles/semi automatic rifles prohibitively expensive?

If the gun is too expensive for you to buy, maybe you don't actually need to buy it. Much like a Porsche is way too expensive for me to buy so I don't actually need it.

However, Porsche's weren't designed with the sole purpose of killing something.

Good argument.

 

[THE HCP]

Helpful would be deleting the post from MARIS where he personally attacked HCP for his profession, which takes him away from raising his kids.

That is straight-up trolling.

Would somebody please inform me on what was said about me and my family. I joke around on here a lot, but I need to know what this bitch posted about me!

 

[julius]

like I said (i think I did?), homicides vs the kinds of killing we're experiencing here.

as others have said, mental health plays a huge role here. But like I said, I don't tink it would be such a detrimental thing to normal gun owners if it was harder for everyone to get their hands on certain weapons (most of which I would bet, they'll never use or buy in the first place).

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Would somebody please inform me on what was said about me and my family. I joke around on here a lot, but I need to know what this bitch posted about me!

didnt see it sorry man

 

[magnifier661]

Would somebody please inform me on what was said about me and my family. I joke around on here a lot, but I need to know what this bitch posted about me!

I never saw it, so I can't help you.

 

[Denny Crane]

really, thats what you're going with?

Well, I did a quick search for bulletproof vests. What I found was a lot of online places to buy them and people asking about the legality and stating why they'd want one. The reason given (that I saw) was protection.

It seems that wearing one in the commission of a crime is a felony on top of the crime itself.

 

[magnifier661]

like I said (i think I did?), homicides vs the kinds of killing we're experiencing here.

as others have said, mental health plays a huge role here. But like I said, I don't tink it would be such a detrimental thing to normal gun owners if it was harder for everyone to get their hands on certain weapons (most of which I would bet, they'll never use or buy in the first place).

There were some serial killers in Cali that never used a gun. They used knives or strangling. I remembered when I lived in Oregon, they had that "Green River Killer" guy that didn't use guns either. He strangled them as well.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

The fact that you think wearing a vest should be an option (even students/teachers?) at all times is exactly where the problem is.

 

[julius]

There were some serial killers in Cali that never used a gun. They used knives or strangling. I remembered when I lived in Oregon, they had that "Green River Killer" guy that didn't use guns either. He strangled them as well.

that is a good point. However, I think there are things that we used to have the "right" to do that now we don't, because it limited the ability for certain people to have access to information, or tools, to kill someone.

Of course I can't think of any examples, nor were they from the "bill of rights".

 

[Denny Crane]

that is a good point. However, I think there are things that we used to have the "right" to do that now we don't, because it limited the ability for certain people to have access to information, or tools, to kill someone.

Of course I can't think of any examples, nor were they from the "bill of rights".

Like feeding pigeons, perhaps?

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/12/13/uptown-alderman-wants-to-make-it-a-crime-to-feed-pigeons/

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Read the article. It names the PEOPLE who fired the guns.

And what particular point were you hoping to convey with this list of people killed with guns?

 

[maxiep]

It's not something we want to face, but there is little you can do to prevent the actions of a madman. This act was pure evil, plainly and simply. Of course, you want to keep children safe, but you can't cocoon them forever. We can't lock them down and make them live under lock and key. There are 300MM+ people in this country, and some of them will be sociopaths.

We all have to live with a certain amount of risk, be it crossing the street, driving a car, flying in a plane, etc. Not being able to legislate a problem away is frustrating. Perhaps the better angle is to attack it from a mental health perspective, rather than one of gun control.

 

[magnifier661]

that is a good point. However, I think there are things that we used to have the "right" to do that now we don't, because it limited the ability for certain people to have access to information, or tools, to kill someone.

Of course I can't think of any examples, nor were they from the "bill of rights".

Personally guns scare the shit out of me; but I think it's important that people in this country (the responsible ones) can have guns. And just the thought that you may go into a house with someone with a gun is a good for causing the criminal to think twice before they invade a home.

I do believe there should be more of a psych evaluation before you can purchase a gun/

 

[Denny Crane]

And what particular point were you hoping to convey with this list of people killed with guns?

It's not a US only phenomena.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Can I have a volunteer from you gun rights defenders to go to a parent of one of those kids and say:
"You realize the odds of your kid dying like this were 1 in 20 million?"
Or:
"Sorry this had to happen, but you know banning guns wouldn't help, right? Yes, I know he got them legally, but surely he would have found some other way - your kid was a goner whatever happened."

 

[julius]

It's not something we want to face, but there is little you can do to prevent the actions of a madman. This act was pure evil, plainly and simply. Of course, you want to keep children safe, but you can't cocoon them forever. We can't lock them down and make them live under lock and key. There are 300MM+ people in this country, and some of them will be sociopaths.

We all have to live with a certain amount of risk, be it crossing the street, driving a car, flying in a plane, etc. Not being able to legislate a problem away is frustrating. Perhaps the better angle is to attack it from a mental health perspective, rather than one of gun control.

I'm not sure that keeping guns away from certain people, or keeping certain guns away from all people, is keeping children under lock and key.

 

[julius]

Personally guns scare the shit out of me; but I think it's important that people in this country (the responsible ones) can have guns. And just the thought that you may go into a house with someone with a gun is a good for causing the criminal to think twice before they invade a home.

I do believe there should be more of a psych evaluation before you can purchase a gun/

agreed.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Can I have a volunteer from you gun rights defenders to go to a parent of one of those kids and say:
"You realize the odds of your kid dying like this were 1 in 20 million?"
Or:
"Sorry this had to happen, but you know banning guns wouldn't help, right? Yes, I know he got them legally, but surely he would have found some other way - your kid was a goner whatever happened."

I would console the parents and do whatever i could for them at the time. I definitely wouldnt be an asshole and use it as a platform for gun control.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It's not a US only phenomena.

First of all, phenomenon.
Second, no shit. But guess what? It's much more common in the US than in any comparable developed nation. And guess also what? Mass shootings are actually steady at about 150 deaths a year in the US. That would be an astronomical tragedy were it not for the fact that deaths by gun homicide TOTAL (per year) in the US are nearly 12,000. Another fun fact: the % of homicides that involve firearms is, at 60%, far higher than in any other comparable developed nation. So your table is a pretty massive red herring.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I would console the parents and do whatever i could for them at the time. I definitely wouldnt be an asshole and use it as a platform for gun control.

Wow, those people who used the Shoe bomber as a platform for increased airport security truly were assholes.
Those people who used the deaths of people in Pearl Harbor as a platform for attacking Japan? Assholes!
Those people who used the deaths of people from tainted aspirin to get stricter laws on drug safety? Fucking rights-stealing assholes!
Why won't they realize that tragedies are not to be calls to action to prevent further tragedies, they're just tragedies that must be allowed to recur!

 

[maxiep]

I'm not sure that keeping guns away from certain people, or keeping certain guns away from all people, is keeping children under lock and key.

I wasn't equating the two. Rather, I was address an argument now that getting into a public school should be like going through airport security. The same with a mall. It's preposterous to think we can protect everyone all the time. Life has risk. It sounds callous, but it's simple math.