Connecticut School Shooting

[3RA1N1AC]

AGreed, but I think often, the pitchfork crowd, essentially, brings forth the idea of legislation, and then, hopefully, there's rational thought debate, and legislating as it calms down.

im fully in favor of finding a solution towards lowering the murder rate in america, and am all ears

but confiscating existing guns just aint gonna happen

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

im fully in favor of finding a solution towards lowering the murder rate in america, and am all ears

but confiscating existing guns just aint gonna happen

You have to look at the roots of the gun violence. The roots.

 

[RoyToy]

You have to look at the roots of the gun violence. The roots.

That it starts with being way too easy to get a gun.

 

[PapaG]

I would think, though, that a lot of legislation is more reactionary. We didn't stiffen travel security until after 9/11. Was it bad for people to call for tighter restrictions on travel, airport security, etc.? Was it reactionary and politicizing the issue to have stricter rules?

I find a candlelight vigil at the White House tonight fine. I find a candlelight vigil at the White House to advocate gun control, and not the victims, to be reactionary.

The latter is happening right now.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

You have to look at the roots of the gun violence. The roots.

you have to figure that if all guns just vanished, there would still be at least 8000 or so murders a year in the US

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

That it starts with being way too easy to get a gun.

so if it were easy to get a gun in japan, the gun deaths will be like they are here? Doubtful...you don't even need to lock your house door there.

 

[PapaG]

That it starts with being way too easy to get a gun.

I don't have a CCW, but I have had a .22 semi Remington rifle for 23 years. Never once have thought of using it to kill anything other than rabbits destroying friends' crops. Apparently the gun hasn't made me an insane killer.

 

[RoyToy]

you have to figure that if all guns just vanished, there would still be at least 8000 or so murders a year in the US

Idk

You'd have a lot less cowards thinking they have some kind of power simply because they're holding a gun

You get people like that Ron Gotti guy

 

[PapaG]

you have to figure that if all guns just vanished, there would still be at least 8000 or so murders a year in the US

If all the guns vanish, only who are controlled by whom we elect have the guns.

That has really never worked out very well in terms of individual freedoms.

 

[STOMP]

Didn't automatic weapons get banned in 1994? None of the weapons reportedly used today, or in Clackamas, or Gabby Giffords' attempted assassination have been reported as automatic weapons.
(sig, glock, ar-15)

all the shootings you referenced plus the Colorado-Batman massacre involved semi-automatic weapons, or large capacity guns that can shoot as quickly as the shooter can keep twitching their finger. I've a shotgun for home defense, thats it. I won't be able to defend my home against a football team that collectively starts foaming at the mouth... I'm not living through Armageddon (oh well). I'm all for rifles, handguns & shotguns, but it seems pretty stupid to have semi-automatic weapons available. They sure are fun to shoot though

I'd support a tax on bullets to pay the medical bills of victims of gun violence. I'd also support upping background checks/requirements of those wishing to purchase weapons and having gun safety courses required for permits. I don't see any of these things as unconstitutional

of course whats really the most dangerous is someone who is looking to hurt people... obviously these steps wouldn't prevent every disaster. Preventing one psychopath from destroying the lives of so many sure seems worth it though

STOMP

 

[RoyToy]

so if it were easy to get a gun in japan, the gun deaths will be like they are here? Doubtful...you don't even need to lock your house door there.

I think there's a real chance you'd see more gun crime in Japan, yes.

 

[RR7]

You have to look at the roots of the gun violence. The roots.

WTF they got to do with gun violence?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I think there's a real chance you'd see more gun crime in Japan, yes.

Similar to America?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

If all the guns vanish, only who are controlled by whom we elect have the guns.

That has really never worked out very well in terms of individual freedoms.

its depressing that im this jaded, but this is the crux of my stubbornness on the subject, the founders were very big on the ability of the people to be able to protect themselves from the government

 

[RR7]

its depressing that im this jaded, but this is the crux of my stubbornness on the subject, the founders were very big on the ability of the people to be able to protect themselves from the government

But do you think handguns give you protection over our government? IN a true overthrowing the government sort of way? It matched up in the 1700s with the weapons they had. But it's not individuals now having the rights to form private militias with military tanks, planes, etc. And that's about what'd be needed to actually protect yourself from the government.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

all the shootings you referenced plus the Colorado-Batman massacre involved semi-automatic weapons, or large capacity guns that can shoot as quickly as the shooter can keep twitching their finger. I've a shotgun for home defense, thats it. I won't be able to defend my home against a football team that collectively starts foaming at the mouth... I'm not living through Armageddon (oh well). I'm all for rifles, handguns & shotguns, but it seems pretty stupid to have semi-automatic weapons available. They sure are fun to shoot though

I'd support a tax on bullets to pay the medical bills of victims of gun violence. I'd also support upping background checks/requirements of those wishing to purchase weapons and having gun safety courses required for permits. I don't see any of these things as unconstitutional

of course whats really the most dangerous is someone who is looking to hurt people... obviously these steps wouldn't prevent every disaster. Preventing one psychopath from destroying the lives of so many sure seems worth it though

STOMP

as has been stated numerous times, handguns do the brunt of the killing in this country, assault weapons seem superfluous, and might be so, but their effect isnt nearly as devastating on the whole

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

But do you think handguns give you protection over our government? IN a true overthrowing the government sort of way? It matched up in the 1700s with the weapons they had. But it's not individuals now having the rights to form private militias with military tanks, planes, etc. And that's about what'd be needed to actually protect yourself from the government.

Say you live in the ghetto like say...Detroit or Newark ..would you really trust the government or police to provide you protection from criminals? That's part of why we have the second amendment, its not to protect ourselves from the king of England

 

[RoyToy]

Similar to America?

I get the point you're trying to make (mostly poverty and crime)

But the easy availability of guns is right there with it

 

[3RA1N1AC]

But do you think handguns give you protection over our government? IN a true overthrowing the government sort of way? It matched up in the 1700s with the weapons they had. But it's not individuals now having the rights to form private militias with military tanks, planes, etc. And that's about what'd be needed to actually protect yourself from the government.

the wars the US has slogged through in the last 50 years tell me otherwise

 

[BrianFromWA]

all the shootings you referenced plus the Colorado-Batman massacre involved semi-automatic weapons, or large capacity guns that can shoot as quickly as the shooter can keep twitching their finger. I've a shotgun for home defense, thats it. I won't be able to defend my home against a football team that collectively starts foaming at the mouth... I'm not living through Armageddon (oh well). I'm all for rifles, handguns & shotguns, but it seems pretty stupid to have semi-automatic weapons available. They sure are fun to shoot though

I'd support a tax on bullets to pay the medical bills of victims of gun violence. I'd also support upping background checks/requirements of those wishing to purchase weapons and having gun safety courses required for permits. I don't see any of these things as unconstitutional

of course whats really the most dangerous is someone who is looking to hurt people... obviously these steps wouldn't prevent every disaster. Preventing one psychopath from destroying the lives of so many sure seems worth it though

STOMP

Lots of good stuff there. I don't mind background checks/etc either, I just don't know about their efficacy in instances like this (he reportedly stole them from his mom, who passed all of her background checks). Or the Clackamas guy, who took them from (iirc) a neighbor?

Tax on bullets? Good idea. Don't see anything wrong with that.

Personally, I think the higher-capacity is a bigger deal than the semi-automatic. I don't know what shotgun you have, but I can empty 5 rounds from a Remington 500 pretty darn quickly. It's not "as fast as a trigger finger" can go, but if I'm shooting against your rabid football team, I can put some people down as fast (if not faster, b/c of the spread) than with a Beretta. If you had to rack a slide on a handgun to chamber a new round, it wouldn't significantly impact your firing time. But I think "semi-automatic" is a scary word for people who may not be as familiar with weapons.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I get the point you're trying to make (mostly poverty and crime)

But the easy availability of guns is right there with it

It's necessary but not sufficient

 

[BlazerCaravan]

its depressing that im this jaded, but this is the crux of my stubbornness on the subject, the founders were very big on the ability of the people to be able to protect themselves from the government

But that's kind of doomed to fail; the government has equipment the citizenry can't hope to afford. No well run militia has a tank and a jet and a nuke let alone dozens of each.

 

[Denny Crane]

But that's kind of doomed to fail; the government has equipment the citizenry can't hope to afford. No well run militia has a tank and a jet and a nuke let alone dozens of each.

Taliban is doing just fine in Afghanistan.

 

[RoyToy]

its depressing that im this jaded, but this is the crux of my stubbornness on the subject, the founders were very big on the ability of the people to be able to protect themselves from the government

It's a ridiculous notion in 2012

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Taliban is doing just fine in Afghanistan.

that was my point earlier

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Taliban is doing just fine in Afghanistan.

That's because our government isn't desperate or corrupt enough to warrant a domestic uprising. If they were, we'd see less US vs Taliban and more Iran vs Iranians or Syria vs Syrians. And in a domestic fight, the US outshines both in resources.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

It's a ridiculous notion in 2012

i disagree, unless we are talking about america nuking itself

 

[BlazerCaravan]

that was my point earlier

It's apples versus oranges. The US that's struggling versus the Taliban isn't the US that citizens need to uprise against. That US would also have no trouble with the Taliban (glass Middle East).

 

[RoyToy]

Taliban is doing just fine in Afghanistan.

Who are the ones hiding again?

 

[Denny Crane]

That's because our government isn't desperate or corrupt enough to warrant a domestic uprising. If they were, we'd see less US vs Taliban and more Iran vs Iranians or Syria vs Syrians. And in a domestic fight, the US outshines both in resources.

In a domestic fight, it's 51% vs 49%, and no reason to expect the military to deal with roadside bombs made by our own civilians any better.