Connecticut School Shooting

[Denny Crane]

I know at least one person with asperger's. It's hard to tell with borderline cases. Anyhow, one fellow is one of the smartest and most meticulous people I know. From what I've seen, a guy with asperger's who plans something like this out is going to do it much better than the average guy. Every detail well planned, that is. The brilliance and attention to detail is a symtom of the disease...

Unless he talks about it, you'd never know it was coming. And you'd only find the guy to be slightly "strange" interacting with him, but not scary or dangerous in the least.


For crandc,

The assualt rifle was owned by the shooter's mother.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

"3-Year-Old Boy In Guthrie Dies From Accidental Gunshot Wound":

GUTHRIE, Oklahoma -

A 3-year-old child in Guthrie died Saturday, after accidentally shooting himself in the head, according to the Logan County Sheriff's office.

The shooting happened early Saturday afternoon in the 1500 block of Derby Lane in Guthrie.

Authorities are calling this a tragic accident after a 3-year-old boy got hold of a gun and accidentally shot himself in the head. Several agencies responded to the home just after noon.

News 9 is told the little boy was the homeowner's nephew. He was there just visiting.

The Onion (in 1999) got the age wrong.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

For crandc,
The assualt rifle was owned by the shooter's mother.

So you're saying that all gun-owners are equivalent to mass-murderers? Wow, that's too extreme for me. But let's act as if that's true and get some laws passed.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

So you're saying that all gun-owners are equivalent to mass-murderers? Wow, that's too extreme for me. But let's act as if that's true and get some laws passed.

You should go back a couple of pages. You were being called out yesterday.

 

[e_blazer]

A few miscellaneous points:

The vast majority of people with mental disabilites are not violent. It is obvious but needs repeating to avoid further stigmatizing and making it even less likely they will seek help.

Almost everyone who was bullied has revenge fantasies! 99.999% keep it at fantasy.

It bugs me how we hear every time the shooter was "intelligent but a loner". That describes nearly every computer nerd and most of them don't kill children. It seems to me a lazy way out. Probably 99.999% of intelligent loners don't kill people either.

Something almost never said. These mass killers are all men. Women can be antisocial, some kill their own children, but don't go off shooting in public places. This is not some man hating rant. It is fact. And maybe among other things we should discuss is why anti social tendencies result in such violence among men?

It was reported in yesterday's SF Chronicle sports section that Kevin McHale, who took a month's leave for his daughter's illness and death, had been calm on his return. Until he heard about this shooting, when he completely broke down.

I don't have a graceful close to this post.

I'd say that all of your points are true...which only goes to demonstrate why drafting legislation to minimize the risk of these incidents is so likely to be ineffective. It's virtually impossible to come up with a way of detecting and controlling the crazed actions of individuals who make up .001% (or, thankfully, probably far less) of the population. Dianne Feinstein is planning to bring back the legislation calling for an assault weapon ban...which I'm not necessarily against, but which would likely have had no impact upon what happened in Newtown. As I understand it, the guy had an assault-type rifle, but didn't use it in the commission of this awful crime.

I suppose brighter minds than mine will be involved in the political machinations that will result from this incident and others like it, but I'll have to say that I'm dubious that they'll come up with anything that can address the relatively random actions of suicidal maniacs.

 

[MARIS61]

Something almost never said. These mass killers are all men. Women can be antisocial, some kill their own children, but don't go off shooting in public places. This is not some man hating rant. It is fact. And maybe among other things we should discuss is why anti social tendencies result in such violence among men?

Not said because the facts don't back it up.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/index.html

http://hunteremkay.com/2011/11/famous-women-mass-murderers-in-recent-history/

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/female_mass_murderer/1.html

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Actual ad for the gun used:

This is basically an M16, right?

 

[e_blazer]

Not said because the facts don't back it up.

While you're correct, MARIS61, in demonstrating that there are cases where women have been involved in mass killings, if you're trying to make the point that it's common, I think you need to read the articles you link a bit more carefully:

Women who commit multiple murders are an uncommon factor in history, so the list is shorter compared to that of the male gender. And women don’t factor within serial murder listings much at all – most who plot and plan serial murders do so from within their own family or acquaintance circles. It is also believed that women who kill mainly use things like poison to do so.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ass...-are-not-on-the-rise-they-are-on-the-decline/

 

[RR7]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ass...-are-not-on-the-rise-they-are-on-the-decline/

lining up with gun ownership also being on the decline in our country

 

[Denny Crane]

lining up with gun ownership also being on the decline in our country

Not true. % of Americans who own guns in 2010 is the same as in 1991. Close to modern all-time high.

 

[RR7]

Not true. % of Americans who own guns in 2010 is the same as in 1991. Close to modern all-time high.

have seen it elsewhere as well, but

 

[Haakzilla]

...has anyone else heard/read about the potential second "shooter" that was originally reported? Seems odd that this has been completely hushed from the official narrative There is even talk about a third "shooter" that was on the ground hand-cuffed as kids were evacuated.

[video=youtube;8qEoYxqmyAM]

[video=youtube;ovspEgeMXb4]

 

[magnifier661]

Wow I did not know or see this. It would be nice to know what the fuck were they trying to do or prove if he was.

 

[MARIS61]

have seen it elsewhere as well, but

Useless poll.

Since the 1994 weapons ban many gun owners refrain from admitting to the government (or to anyone at all) that they own guns.

 

[BrianFromWA]

This is basically an M16, right?

It's basically a "civilian M-4." An M-16 doesn't have the telescoping stock and has a longer barrel (and longer effective range).

As shown, that Bushmaster isn't legal in CT.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Useless poll.

Since the 1994 weapons ban many gun owners refrain from admitting to the government (or to anyone at all) that they own guns.

Damn it, Maris, will you stop being reasonable?

You were easier to mock when you were being silly...I think that out of all the gun owners that I know, almost every one has at least one that has been purchased with out record. For many, none have papers..

 

[RR7]

Damn it, Maris, will you stop being reasonable?

You were easier to mock when you were being silly...I think that out of all the gun owners that I know, almost every one has at least one that has been purchased with out record. For many, none have papers..

that seems awfully irresponsible. I would think illega as well?. Odd when they're primarily held up as upstanding citizens, law abiding, etc.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

that seems awfully irresponsible. I would think illega as well?. Odd when they're primarily held up as upstanding citizens, law abiding, etc.

not really

Most guys keep records aginst theft
Most have gun safes
Many of the guns have been in their collections for many years befoe ownership became a bad thing to some
Most have guns that have been handed down or guifted
The guys that have purchased new will have pass any "test" or waiting period
At some point every one of the guys I know have passed a training course or been in the service

 

[RR7]

whether they would have or could pass, and whether they did and went through the correct legal channels are two different things. Why would there be concern about trampling on their second amendment rights when they don't choose to follow the law anyways?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

whether they would have or could pass, and whether they did and went through the correct legal channels are two different things. Why would there be concern about trampling on their second amendment rights when they don't choose to follow the law anyways?

look up the laws before you pass judgement each case has its own requirements

 

[DaLincolnJones]

you buy a gun from a licensed dealer in Oregon, a background check is performed by the Oregon State Police. At that time the make, model, caliber and serial number of the gun is recorded, along with all your personal information. In that sense, the gun has been "registered." However, in private transfers, there is no such background check required, although you can conduct one voluntarily if you really think the State Police need your $10.00. This IS NOT required by law unless your transfer takes place at a "gun show." So unless you have chosen to conduct the (entirely voluntary) background check, there is no "gun registration" in Oregon. If you move here with your own guns, or have acquired them from a private party in Oregon, there is no "registration" of any kind and no permits to own or transport. The only "permit" in Oregon is for concealed carry.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

"So You Think You Know the Second Amendment":

Enter the modern National Rifle Association. Before the nineteen-seventies, the N.R.A. had been devoted mostly to non-political issues, like gun safety. But a coup d’état at the group’s annual convention in 1977 brought a group of committed political conservatives to power—as part of the leading edge of the new, more rightward-leaning Republican Party. (Jill Lepore recounted this history in a recent piece for The New Yorker.) The new group pushed for a novel interpretation of the Second Amendment, one that gave individuals, not just militias, the right to bear arms. It was an uphill struggle. At first, their views were widely scorned. Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, who was no liberal, mocked the individual-rights theory of the amendment as “a fraud.”

But the N.R.A. kept pushing—and there’s a lesson here. Conservatives often embrace “originalism,” the idea that the meaning of the Constitution was fixed when it was ratified, in 1787. They mock the so-called liberal idea of a “living” constitution, whose meaning changes with the values of the country at large. But there is no better example of the living Constitution than the conservative re-casting of the Second Amendment in the last few decades of the twentieth century. (Reva Siegel, of Yale Law School, elaborates on this point in a brilliant article.)

The re-interpretation of the Second Amendment was an elaborate and brilliantly executed political operation, inside and outside of government.

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...ey-toobin-second-amendment.html#ixzz2FPvuxRL7

 

[Rastapopoulos]

"Don't Blame Autism for Newtown":

Whether reporters were directly attributing Mr. Lanza’s shooting rampage to his autism or merely shoddily lumping together very different conditions, the false and harmful messages were abundant.

Let me clear up a few misconceptions. For one thing, Asperger’s and autism are not forms of mental illness; they are neurodevelopmental disorders or disabilities. Autism is a lifelong condition that manifests before the age of 3; most mental illnesses do not appear until the teen or young adult years. Medications rarely work to curb the symptoms of autism, but they can be indispensable in treating mental illness like obsessive-compulsive disorder, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

Underlying much of this misreporting is the pernicious and outdated stereotype that people with autism lack empathy. Children with autism may have trouble understanding the motivations and nonverbal cues of others, be socially naïve and have difficulty expressing their emotions in words, but they are typically more truthful and less manipulative than neurotypical children and are often people of great integrity. They can also have a strong desire to connect with others and they can be intensely empathetic — they just attempt those connections and express that empathy in unconventional ways. My child with autism, in fact, is the most empathetic and honorable of my three wonderful children.

Additionally, a psychopathic, sociopathic or homicidal tendency must be separated out from both autism and from mental illness more generally. While autistic children can sometimes be aggressive, this is usually because of their frustration at being unable to express themselves verbally, or their extreme sensory sensitivities. Moreover, the form their aggression takes is typically harmful only to themselves. In the very rare cases where their aggression is externally directed, it does not take the form of systematic, meticulously planned, intentional acts of violence against a community.

And if study after study has definitively established that a person with autism is no more likely to be violent or engage in criminal behavior than a neurotypical person, it is just as clear that autistic people are far more likely to be the victims of bullying and emotional and physical abuse by parents and caregivers than other children. So there is a sad irony in making autism the agent or the cause rather than regarding it as the target of violence.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

"Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim urges laws against assault weapons in wake of Newtown tragedy"

 

[BrianFromWA]

nm.

 

[ABM]

(Author Unknown)

Twas' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38
When 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven's gate.

Their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air.
They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.

They were filled with such joy, they didn't know what to say.
They remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.

"where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.
"this is heaven." declared a small boy. "we're spending Christmas at God's house."

When what to their wondering eyes did appear,
But Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near.

He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same.
Then He opened His arms and He called them by name.

and in that moment was joy, that only heaven can bring
Those children all flew into the arms of their King,

and as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace,
one small girl turned and looked at Jesus' face.

and as if He could read all the questions she had
He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of mom and dad."

then He looked down on earth, the world far below
He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe,

then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,
"Let My power and presence re-enter this land!"

"may this country be delivered from the hands of fools"
"I'm taking back my nation. I'm taking back my schools!"

then He and the children stood up without a sound.
"come now my children, let me show you around."

excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran.
all displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can
.
and i heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,
"in the midst of this darkness, I AM STILL THE LIGHT."