Convincing Greg Oden

[PapaG]

No contending Team has any capspace and very few playoff teams or fringe playoff teams have capspace (Rockets,Bobcats,Raptors,Indiana,76ers) are the only teams with anything to work with I believe.

Thanks Rhal. My thoughts on these teams re: Oden, if he rejects the Q.O.

Rockets: obviously need a center because of Yao; may not want a center who gets injured more than Yao

Bobcats: I won't put anything past Michael Jordan, and he may overpay Greg just to get one over on Portland, who would be forced to overpay.

Raptors: Definitely a possiblity

Pacers: I just don't see it working for either party there, due to the hometown/injury potential issues.

76ers: Could happen, although Spencer Hawes would be cheaper (but without the upside)

The RFA options for Oden seem limited, don't they?

 

[PapaG]

Another thread on Oden . . . another bunch of hypotheses . . . another bunch of conjecture . . . and another bunch of guesses, hopes, fears, and questions . . .

I've seen 50 threads like this in the last 4 years, and they're all mostly the same. It's getting very old.

Simple solution. Don't read them. I've yet to see a thread that actually discusses what teams this summer could offer Greg a lot of money until this one; have you?

 

[HailBlazers]

With rumors that he feels a little disrespected by the extension not being offered how do you convince Greg to want to be apart of this organization for the long-term?

Fucking Win Games, with the best crowd/environment in the NBA.

Another thread on Oden . . . another bunch of hypotheses . . . another bunch of conjecture . . . and another bunch of guesses, hopes, fears, and questions . . .I've seen 50 threads like this in the last 4 years, and they're all mostly the same. It's getting very old.

For REAL, God I hate all this he said she said drama BS. You shouldn't base decisions on Rumors. I'm certain, at this juncture, after all that has happened, that Greg has an open dialog with Blazers management and there's nothing left unsaid.

You guys are crazy, G.O. lives a freakin MILE away from Larry Miller.

 

[PapaG]

Fucking Win Games, with the best crowd/environment in the NBA.




For REAL, God I hate all this he said she said drama BS. You shouldn't base decisions on Rumors. I'm certain, at this juncture, after all that has happened, that Greg has an open dialog with Blazers management and there's nothing left unsaid.

You guys are crazy, G.O. lives a freakin MILE away from Larry Miller.

So, you're saying the Oden is negotiating his own contract? His proximity to Larry Miller makes literally zero difference, IMO. Are you suggesting that they get together for tea in the afternoon? Does Mike Conley Sr. tag along with Greg?

 

[PapaG]

I'll also point out that Oden has never said that he wants to stay in Portland. He said "Who wouldn't want to play there?" to Marc Spears, but then he didn't answer the question, and Spears didn't push him for a definite answer. Perhaps he doesn't want to play here.

 

[HailBlazers]

Perhaps your reaching for straws, what I'm saying IS, that G.O. and Miller are friends. Pretty damn sure they've talked about the situation more than once. If Greg felt 'disrespected' I'm sure they would have aired it out and cleared it up with a simple conversation. You know like big boys do, give em some freaking credit, sheeesh. Their men, not little girls.

I don't blame Oden for not answering the same damn question over and over and over and over and over again, especially without even being on the Court. Let the Guy come back and play then ask him how he feels.

All the Shit (rumors) you hear are simple business negotiation tactics, We have NO clue what's really going on behind the scenes

 

[PapaG]

Perhaps your reaching for straws, what I'm saying IS, that G.O. and Miller are friends. Pretty damn sure they've talked about the situation more than once. If Greg felt 'disrespected' I'm sure they would have aired it out and cleared it up with a simple conversation. You know like big boys do, give em some freaking credit, sheeesh. Their men, not little girls.

I don't blame Oden for not answering the same damn question over and over and over and over and over again, especially without even being on the Court. Let the Guy come back and play then ask him how he feels.

Why would you be sure about it? How do you know Miller and Oden are "friends"? Do you have inside info, or are you just making assumptions?

 

[RR7]

Thanks Rhal. My thoughts on these teams re: Oden, if he rejects the Q.O.

Rockets: obviously need a center because of Yao; may not want a center who gets injured more than Yao

Bobcats: I won't put anything past Michael Jordan, and he may overpay Greg just to get one over on Portland, who would be forced to overpay.

Raptors: Definitely a possiblity

Pacers: I just don't see it working for either party there, due to the hometown/injury potential issues.

76ers: Could happen, although Spencer Hawes would be cheaper (but without the upside)

The RFA options for Oden seem limited, don't they?

Just assuming the cap stays the same, which is easier to speculate on then making up a number under the new CBA, Charlotte wouldn't likely have enough to go real big(9 a year starting). Denver will have cap space. They'd have Nene, but, could go real big with both. Who knows. Clippers will have the space. They can likely find a taker for Kaman, and sign oden and DeAndre Jordan. Odd to think of Sterling spending money, but with Griffin becoming a star, who knows, maybe they try to make a big splash. NJ has plenty of space, and seems very unlikely, with them thinking of Dwight in 2012. But, again, always possible. OKC has about 8 or 9 under. But if they could pay someone to take Nate off of their hands, it'd open up another 4.5. PHX might be able to shed enough to get close to a solid offer. Sacramento has a ton of space, and could try to make a huge offer, to pair him with Cousins up front, and take the big risk on it. Washington also has a lot of space, and no bad long term deals. Doubtful after being able to dump Arenas, but there are a lot of teams that could definitely take a chance/risk on a big deal, with the lack of good big men.

I know not all of those teams are contenders, but a healthy and very average Oden makes all of them pretty close to contenders. Or greatly improving. All it takes is one to take the chance. I'd say he has a lot of options.

 

[PapaG]

Just assuming the cap stays the same, which is easier to speculate on then making up a number under the new CBA, Charlotte wouldn't likely have enough to go real big(9 a year starting). Denver will have cap space. They'd have Nene, but, could go real big with both. Who knows. Clippers will have the space. They can likely find a taker for Kaman, and sign oden and DeAndre Jordan. Odd to think of Sterling spending money, but with Griffin becoming a star, who knows, maybe they try to make a big splash. NJ has plenty of space, and seems very unlikely, with them thinking of Dwight in 2012. But, again, always possible. OKC has about 8 or 9 under. But if they could pay someone to take Nate off of their hands, it'd open up another 4.5. PHX might be able to shed enough to get close to a solid offer. Sacramento has a ton of space, and could try to make a huge offer, to pair him with Cousins up front, and take the big risk on it. Washington also has a lot of space, and no bad long term deals. Doubtful after being able to dump Arenas, but there are a lot of teams that could definitely take a chance/risk on a big deal, with the lack of good big men.

I know not all of those teams are contenders, but a healthy and very average Oden makes all of them pretty close to contenders. Or greatly improving. All it takes is one to take the chance. I'd say he has a lot of options.

The other side for true contenders, though, is that if Oden continues to be injury prone, that money is tied up in a player who isn't helping your team. Also, would the Clippers really deal Kaman in order to pay Greg Oden? Plus, if Oden goes the RFA route, which is what my post was about, Portland can always match, so the above scenarios aren't realistic, IMO. Why would those teams move productive players solely to clear up cap space to make an offer to Oden that Portland has the option to match? If it is 2012, sure, but that wasn't what my post was about. If Oden were an UFA this summer, your scenarios make perfect sense. Since he can't be, I just don't see teams making drastic roster moves in order to set Oden's contract for Portland.

 

[HailBlazers]

Why would you be sure about it? How do you know Miller and Oden are "friends"? Do you have inside info, or are you just making assumptions?

Yes I'm making Assumptions, that's really all we can do, considering our position as fans with little reliable info.

With that said, what I do know is how Larry does Business, he's a friendly guy, he keeps people close to him, look at his friendship with MJ, it landed us Wallace. My 'Assumption,' is that there's a reason that the Number 1 pick in the NBA draft found a home right below the President's of the Organization. (Ask me how I know) See the dots here? I'm positive, that over the last three years of trials and tribulations that Greg and Larry have had Plenty of time to bond.

 

[RR7]

One team listed out of quite a few makes a "drastic" roster move. And even without moving Kaman initially, they can find a deal they like, potentially, offer Oden a big deal, and if Portland doesn't match, they can go through with it, and then trade Kaman and sign Jordan.

I don't see how just because Portland can match, the options aren't realistic. they are still available options. Those teams could take a calculated gamble that they can offer a big deal, and Portland wouldn't match. It's still an option for Oden, in RFA, to shop his services, and get a big offer, regardless of if it is matched or not.

 

[HailBlazers]

Honestly, That's ^ the only way I see G.O. leaving. And that's a big IF, thank god with have Paul Allen.

 

[PapaG]

One team listed out of quite a few makes a "drastic" roster move. And even without moving Kaman initially, they can find a deal they like, potentially, offer Oden a big deal, and if Portland doesn't match, they can go through with it, and then trade Kaman and sign Jordan.

I don't see how just because Portland can match, the options aren't realistic. they are still available options. Those teams could take a calculated gamble that they can offer a big deal, and Portland wouldn't match. It's still an option for Oden, in RFA, to shop his services, and get a big offer, regardless of if it is matched or not.

So LAC, for example, is going to set up a side deal for Kaman, and then have that deal sit on the table with another team while Portland takes their 7 days to decide?

I just don't see it as being realistic, and yes, I feel that the difference between Portland being able to match and not being able to match matters greatly this summer. Is a team really going to waste a week of FA, plus whatever else time goes into setting up a side deal, without knowing if Portland will match or not match? I don't see it.

 

[RR7]

Teams do it all the time. Why did we waste a week of free agency waiting on Wes. In one of the bigger free agent summers ever. Why waste a week on Milsap. Why do teams waste weeks often, making offers to RFAs? If it is for someone like Oden, sure a team would. Especially if they thought they had a reasonable chance at getting him with their offer. I don't see the difficulty in setting up a side deal. They can pretty easily call around now. he Cleveland, you have a large TPE> Kaman for nothing, you in? Ok, sure. We'll take a decent C for nothing. Ok, give us a week. Wow, so tough. If a team is getting a good deal, like Cleveland in that instance, they easily wait a week on it.

 

[PapaG]

Teams do it all the time. Why did we waste a week of free agency waiting on Wes. In one of the bigger free agent summers ever. Why waste a week on Milsap. Why do teams waste weeks often, making offers to RFAs? If it is for someone like Oden, sure a team would. Especially if they thought they had a reasonable chance at getting him with their offer. I don't see the difficulty in setting up a side deal. They can pretty easily call around now. he Cleveland, you have a large TPE> Kaman for nothing, you in? Ok, sure. We'll take a decent C for nothing. Ok, give us a week. Wow, so tough. If a team is getting a good deal, like Cleveland in that instance, they easily wait a week on it.

Cleveland gets Chris Kaman without a contract for the LeBron TPE? Why on Earth would they do that after they also took on Baron Davis' contract?

Anyhow, I see your point, but I disagree that there are as many options for Oden as there would be as an UFA. There are too many more moving pieces, which is the entire point of restricted free agency. Also, why would a team make a deal for Millsap? Well, one reason was to fuck over Utah, and basically net Wesley Matthews the next summer. I will point out that Portland first offered UFA Hedo Turkoglu a contract, and they also had the cap space to offer Millsap. LAC can't say "hey, we're going to trade this player so we can offer Oden, so Mr. Stern, can we just pretend that we have the cap space, even though we really don't because we can't trade these players if we don't get Oden?" Not happening.

 

[Draco]

Teams do it all the time. Why did we waste a week of free agency waiting on Wes. In one of the bigger free agent summers ever. Why waste a week on Milsap. Why do teams waste weeks often, making offers to RFAs? If it is for someone like Oden, sure a team would. Especially if they thought they had a reasonable chance at getting him with their offer. I don't see the difficulty in setting up a side deal. They can pretty easily call around now. he Cleveland, you have a large TPE> Kaman for nothing, you in? Ok, sure. We'll take a decent C for nothing. Ok, give us a week. Wow, so tough. If a team is getting a good deal, like Cleveland in that instance, they easily wait a week on it.

The clips would have to do a Kaman deal first in order to have cap space to sign Oden. You cant use cap space before you have cap space...

 

[PapaG]

The clips would have to do a Kaman deal first in order to have cap space to sign Oden. You cant use cap space before you have cap space...

That's what I was saying in the post prior to yours. A "side deal" to create cap space is not possible if you don't already have the cap space. Basically, the cap space has to be created prior to making Oden an offer. A team can't make an offer without the cap space available, and then decide to create the cap space based on whether or not the RFA's team matches it. I'm not quite sure where RR7 was going with his scenarios, but as I said, they aren't realistic.

 

[Draco]

That's what I was saying in the post prior to yours. A "side deal" to create cap space is not possible if you don't already have the cap space. Basically, the cap space has to be created prior to making Oden an offer. A team can't make an offer without the cap space available, and then decide to create the cap space based on whether or not the RFA's team matches it. I'm not quite sure where RR7 was going with his scenarios, but as I said, they aren't realistic.

Yeah, if that were possible to use cap space before you have cap space we should've signed LeBron last summer!

 

[RR7]

They have 14 million in cap space WITH Kaman. My point was to sign BOTH Oden and DeAndre Jordan, they could get rid of Kaman. So they don't need this magical hypothetical whatever with so many moving pieces that you mention. I am assuming they do not want to lose Jordan. But could also take the high risk, high reward with Oden. And move Kaman to do it.

 

[PapaG]

They have 14 million in cap space WITH Kaman. My point was to sign BOTH Oden and DeAndre Jordan, they could get rid of Kaman. So they don't need this magical hypothetical whatever with so many moving pieces that you mention. I am assuming they do not want to lose Jordan. But could also take the high risk, high reward with Oden. And move Kaman to do it.

What does that have to do with OKC and Nate Robinson, though, to clear up cap space, as you posted earlier? Plus, you're getting rid of Kaman without guaranteeing replacing him.

Anyhow, what you meant and what you posted are two different things, but I know the rules against admitting mistakes on this board.

 

[RR7]

What does that have to do with OKC and Nate Robinson, though, to clear up cap space, as you posted earlier? Plus, you're getting rid of Kaman without guaranteeing replacing him.

Anyhow, what you meant and what you posted are two different things, but I know the rules against admitting mistakes on this board.

What I meant and what I posted? I said there are plenty of options. You focused on the Clippers one, until I showed how it can easily be done, since they have the space. Really, is it that difficult to conceive that POKC can say to, say, Cleveland hey, we'll give you Cole Aldrich if you take on Nate. And we'll pay you 3 million. Done deal. Offer to Oden. Oh no!! The logistics are inconceivable!! There are many many options for him as a RFA> Sorry you don't see it. Open your eyes.

 

[RR7]

You don't lose Kaman for nothing. You offer Oden. He accepts. You wait the week. Portland doesn't match. You sign Oden. You trade Kaman. You sign Jordan. Wow. This stuff is hard.

 

[PapaG]

What I meant and what I posted? I said there are plenty of options. You focused on the Clippers one, until I showed how it can easily be done, since they have the space. Really, is it that difficult to conceive that POKC can say to, say, Cleveland hey, we'll give you Cole Aldrich if you take on Nate. And we'll pay you 3 million. Done deal. Offer to Oden. Oh no!! The logistics are inconceivable!! There are many many options for him as a RFA> Sorry you don't see it. Open your eyes.

That must be done prior to making the offer to Oden, though. So, if Portland matches OKC's offer, OKC is out Oden, Aldrich, and Nate Robinson. Why Cleveland would want them with their TPE if OKC is just giving them away is another story as well. Most of your scenarios involve a team needing to clear cap space prior to making an offer that Portland may not match. The way you wrote them are not based in reality, so now I get the "Open your eyes" and other insults.

Predictable. I know why you posted it, but the problem is, you were wrong this time, but you can't admit it because of why you posted it. Anyhoo, good luck clearing up imaginary cap space prior to having "side deals".

 

[PapaG]

You don't lose Kaman for nothing. You offer Oden. He accepts. You wait the week. Portland doesn't match. You sign Oden. You trade Kaman. You sign Jordan. Wow. This stuff is hard.

The Clippers traded Kyrie Irving for Mo Williams, $11 million, and a hypothetical "shot" at Greg Oden, who they would have to massively overpay for to make the Blazers not consider matching. While I find that funny, because it's the Clippers, how can you assume that Kaman will be able to be traded without taking on another contract? May as well just keep Kaman in case Oden goes down again. So, worst case, Oden accepts, Kaman can't be traded, and at that point, Sterling has a big decision to make on Jordan. Seeing as the Clippers just dumped Baron Davis, why on Earth would they take the risk of paying up to $10 million in luxury tax?

Also, could you go over the rest of your "side deal" scenarios? The ones where you offer Oden prior to actually creating the cap space, with Portland still having the right to match any offer?

 

[RR7]

Most of the scenarios? Gotcha. I should know better than to bother discussing anything with you. You look for an argument over an actual discussion,a nd want to twist a discussion. Most? Denver? no. OKC? yes. LA? no. Washington? No. Sacramento? no. NJ? no. Phx? yes. So two out of 7 is most? I see. I was pointing out that there are many teams with cap space is all. And more that could look to clear some if they wanted. So there are more than the 5 scnearios mentioned previously. I dunno what disciussion you are looking to get into. Feel free. Exact;ly how am I wrogn? because I pointed out 7 teams that have space, with two needing to make a move to likely get enough space? Ok. You were wrong initially in the limited options,a nd are on this long rant to say you weren't. Whatever you want.

 

[PapaG]

Most of the scenarios? Gotcha. I should know better than to bother discussing anything with you. You look for an argument over an actual discussion,a nd want to twist a discussion. Most? Denver? no. OKC? yes. LA? no. Washington? No. Sacramento? no. NJ? no. Phx? yes. So two out of 7 is most? I see. I was pointing out that there are many teams with cap space is all. And more that could look to clear some if they wanted. So there are more than the 5 scnearios mentioned previously. I dunno what disciussion you are looking to get into. Feel free. Exact;ly how am I wrogn? because I pointed out 7 teams that have space, with two needing to make a move to likely get enough space? Ok. You were wrong initially in the limited options,a nd are on this long rant to say you weren't. Whatever you want.

The way you positioned you clearing of cap space was unrealistic, though. It was. Now, you've given some other options, and have clarified one of the scenarios, but I still find it unlikely that a team is going to clear cap space in less than two months to make a run at a restricted free agent. It makes no sense, especially with the lockout looming on July 1st.

 

[RR7]

I gave the "other" options in my original post. sorry you can't read. I know you looked for a way to argue before actually reading someone's post. 2 of 7. Wow.

 

[PapaG]

I gave the "other" options in my original post. sorry you can't read. I know you looked for a way to argue before actually reading someone's post. 2 of 7. Wow.

I see that, and I was only commenting on the options listed by Rhal.

 

[RR7]

Only commenting on his, then why were you referring to me and my posts? He listed some, you commented. I added 7 more potential scenarios. Whatever.

 

[Shooter]

Cripes. If anyone can actually read this entire thread from start to finish, I'd be amazed. I'd rather stick a fork in my eye than wade through all of this conjecture . . .