OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (4 Viewers)

[Orion Bailey]

Stoopid cats!

Right @SlyPokerCat

Man, Way to ruin a good thing. That's it game over. Taking my cat and going home!

* I admit, i've watched it three times now and cant stop laughing....*

I love cats.

 

[yankeesince59]

Trump literally gave away his leadership role to governors during this pandemic. Trump could have shown leadership, but instead handed it off to others when the going got tough, then he sits back and decries fake news while bashing those same governors that he handed his power to.

In other words: Trump wussed out.

Yup, and I'm sure he did it by design, that way, if things go bad he can claim, "hey, I told you so"...of things go well, he takes all the credit.

And sadly it appears that many governors are essentially doing the same thing by leaving major decisions up to business owners.

 

[yankeesince59]

Myself. And anyone else not understanding the numbers. I wouldn't have understood them either until. my current employment. Numbers come much easier to me now because of my career, where I know they may not come as easy or make as much sense to many others who don't have that specific experience.

But math doesn't lie. It might give false perceptions, like my example provided, but when broken down, the truth is always there.

That is completely dependent on the input. In some cases, garbage in, = garbage out.

 

[Orion Bailey]

That is completely dependent on the input. In some cases, garbage in, = garbage out.

Not following you. Not sure how that relates? Garbage in = garbage out? If you are referring the input to be the data, well, I provided an example with a direct correlation.

Did you see my example and understand how total numbers can be deceiving?

 

[yankeesince59]

Not following you. Not sure how that relates? Garbage in = garbage out? If you are referring the input to be the data, well, I provided an example with a direct correlation.

Did you see my example and understand how total numbers can be deceiving?

Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about.

I'm only referencing the overabundance of info we're given sometimes online thru the net/twitter/facebook, et al, and it's hard to wade through what's real and what's not...there's so much of it that it can become very confusing as far as what to believe and what not to believe.

Like I've said before, there's a lot of information on covid19, but there's even more misinformation.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[Orion Bailey]

Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about.

I'm only referencing the overabundance of info we're given sometimes online thru the net/twitter/facebook, et al, and it's hard to wade through what's real and what's not...there's so much of it that it can become very confusing as far as what to believe and what not to believe.

Like I've said before, there's a lot of information on covid19, but there's even more misinformation.

Understood and agreed. However i'm not sure how that relates to the discussion at hand regarding Tennessee's decision to reopen and the numbers regarding the virus in their state that you referenced as indicating the leveling off is not happening?

We are all using the same info provided in the posts above in this discussion, so to me, it seems its apples to apples whether the numbers are scewed or not, the math is still the same.

Unless the goal posts are now being moved from " Tennessee's curve is not flatlined and they are making a bad decision", to "The media has not provided truthful information regarding Tennessee's numbers", of which then I don't think any of us would have anything credible to base a judgement off of.

As far as I can tell the discussion was about whether Tennessee was making a correct decision and you provided a graph in defense of your opinion. Are you now saying that the graph you used is not trustworthy?

Seems the conversation took a shift all of a sudden?

 

[wizenheimer]

Nor did I attempt to. I simply said that you provided very little evidence to support your claim that Tennessee hadn't flattened their curve at all.

@wizenheimer, however, did disprove your assertion quite thoroughly.

hey now....I get in enough food fights without being drug into others...

here's the thing(s) about "flattening the curve"....to start with, there are many curves; and many of those many curves are based upon data that is questionable. For instance, if the curve is the total number of cases, or daily new cases, we would need to have a sufficient level of testing to have any confidence those curves represent reality. But, based upon what just about every 'expert' has said, we are not testing at a level sufficient to have confidence in the numbers

and then, there are curves that don't really tell us anything like total cases and cases per million. Those curves will only flatten when we go weeks without a new case

going back to an Oregon vs Tenn. comparison, maybe new cases/week is a good gauge?





as I said before, Tenn. is testing at a higher rate per million but Oregon is testing at a higher rate per positive. If you're thinking like me that Oregon is being smart by keeping the stay-at-home orders in place for 2-4 more weeks, then Tenn. looks to be jumping the gun by dropping restrictions this early

if hospitalizations are a gauge, then Tenn, is doing slightly better per million, but again, if Oregon is counting nursing home patients and Tenn. isn't, it's a noisy gauge. Perhaps more important is that neither state has flattened that curve to a downward trajectory. Both states have seen hospitalizations/million increase by 16 over the last week

http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

 

[lawai'a]

i really love all the predictions about the virus by non medical personnel. i have to admit i only read them for entertainment. i try to only consider those of medical professionals that i am able to validate from multiple sources. never consider twitter as a potential source IMHO. musk's prediction has obviously not aged well in a matter of only 5 weeks.

 

[barfo]

I love cats.

There is some doubt about that.

barfo

 

[BigGameDamian]

I've read that some scientists believe a vaccine will be ready this fall/ winter, Some say 12-18 months, Some fear there will never be a vaccine.

 

[BigGameDamian]

We just passed 1 million cases in the U.S.

 

[ABM]

We just passed 1 million cases in the U.S.

NY/NJ with 40% of those cases.

 

[Road Ratt]

 

[Orion Bailey]

There is some doubt about that.

barfo

When I open up your link, I click on my post you reference and it goes to the post below. Fake News!!!!

You could be right and I hope you are, but when all you have to go on is what you read, what else is there?

Also, that one person had said it several times blatantly clearly and had those posts liked by several people if I recall correctly. There have been several others, And dude, I have respect and interact with some outside of here, That have beat around the bush, but insinuated that anyone disagreeing can feel the wrath... so to speak.

yeah, in all fairness, i'm probably over the top, but if I am its only because i've been reading over the top posts that have not been corrected by those individuals.


Lets look at this example.

I have a couple neighbor cats that keep coming over and taunting our indoor cats through the window and our indoor cats are acting up over it. Spraying and what not.
I said the other night to my wife.. " Fuck. I hate cats". Now she, being my wife, KNOWS I don't hate cats and that my frustration is about a few cats, not all.

But if I would have said I hate cats on here, everyone would simply think I hate all cats.

Lack of clarity and explanation leaves to confused and sometimes incorrect assumptions and reactions. However it is not the receiver who should be forced to mind read. Its up to the distributor to clearly identify what he means if he is making blanket statements. Without explanation, you can only take the words for what they are, correct?


Another example. @theprunetang is a great person. I have met him and he is on the up and up and wants the best for everyone. However he has made statements on here that could conflict that knowledge. However having known him, I got the gest of his meaning without thinking it was over the top. However some on here that relationship[ isn't established and until it is, or there is a clear explanation defining a statement... its taken at face value.

Its not up to me to discern who is over the top and who isn't. Its up to those (like i'm admitting here I was probably over the top) to update and clarify any misconstrued opinions)

 

[Hoopguru]

Unless I'm missing the point...



Not sure why the # of people who die from heart disease matters, it's not contagious. I can be sitting next to someone with heart disease, and they can cough, sneeze and spit on me all they want, I'm not catching it from them. Nor do I become a carrier of the disease and risk other people getting it from me, despite me not showing any signs.



We have done something about that (banned smoking in public places/restaurants, etc), and it's not contagious/communicable. SMOKING the act is potentially dangerous to others, but someone smoking next to you won't cause you to get lung cancer. And most of the people who die from smoking do it to themselves.



I'm hoping I'm missing a bigger point here, and if so I apologize in advance. It's entirely possible I'm misunderstanding why you brought up non contagious diseases.

Yes, we could do a lot more for the health and well being of our country. But pointing out areas where we should be more diligent in with health care doesn't relate, since that's really an unrelated point in relation to Covid19.

Just making the point that there are huge deaths over things we have control over as a society, nothing to do with what is or isn't contagious. Doesn't have to be right or wrong its just an opinion I expressed.
I just went through a car wash, in grocery store, liquor store, hardware store and drug store and there were herds of people.
6 people under 60 have died in Oregon and they had underlying conditions. I doubt we wait for a vaccine before things are totally opened up plus it can be up to the person to do as they like once the governor opens things up.

 

[crandc]

Some interesting points.
https://forum.freedomfest.com/why-you-should-not-stay-home/
https://forum.freedomfest.com/why-you-should-not-stay-home/

I started reading it but the author lost me at moral imperative to not stay home. Obviously we have very different ideas of morality.

Not a betting woman but feel reasonably sure author is not a health care worker, not a front line worker (grocery clerk, mail carrier, farm worker), and is white.

When a 5 year old girl dies in Michigan, when we just passed a million cases, when a former Blazer loses two family members in a week, it's a moral imperative to not stay home? Are you aware of the consensus among public health experts that US infections would have been 90% less if a stay at home order was in place just two weeks earlier? Or reduced by 60% if a stay at home order was in place just one week earlier? But Trump was busy proclaiming that it would miraculously disappear, although he had been briefed, just didn't bother to read the briefings.

It's a moral imperative to follow the science.

If someone really wants to die for Trump, unfortunately, they will take others with them. And burden our health care workers.

Stay home, wash your hands.

 

[magnifier661]

I started reading it but the author lost me at moral imperative to not stay home. Obviously we have very different ideas of morality.

Not a betting woman but feel reasonably sure author is not a health care worker, not a front line worker (grocery clerk, mail carrier, farm worker), and is white.

When a 5 year old girl dies in Michigan, when we just passed a million cases, when a former Blazer loses two family members in a week, it's a moral imperative to not stay home? Are you aware of the consensus among public health experts that US infections would have been 90% less if a stay at home order was in place just two weeks earlier? Or reduced by 60% if a stay at home order was in place just one week earlier? But Trump was busy proclaiming that it would miraculously disappear, although he had been briefed, just didn't bother to read the briefings.

It's a moral imperative to follow the science.

If someone really wants to die for Trump, unfortunately, they will take others with them. And burden our health care workers.

Stay home, wash your hands.

Everything in your post was great until you said that bigoted comment.

 

[lawai'a]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...stay-and-likely-seasonal-say-china-scientists
i know already, can't trust the chinese scientists or data,even though this prediction dovetails with fauci's prediction that this is likely to become seasonal.


Fauci says it's likely coronavirus will be seasonal

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday...-says-its-likely-coronavirus-will-be-seasonal

 

[BigGameDamian]

With Donald Trump at the helm it's doubtful we get any kind control.

 

[julius]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...stay-and-likely-seasonal-say-china-scientists
i know already, can't trust the chinese scientists or data,even though this prediction dovetails with fauci's prediction that this is likely to become seasonal.


Fauci says it's likely coronavirus will be seasonal

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday...-says-its-likely-coronavirus-will-be-seasonal

I hope that A: this is true B: during the lull (if there is one) we don't go right back to our old ways of careless hygiene, etc. C: they are able to find a cure/vaccine asap during said lull.

 

[julius]

I've read that some scientists believe a vaccine will be ready this fall/ winter, Some say 12-18 months, Some fear there will never be a vaccine.

Now that's covering all your bases.

 

[magnifier661]

Now that's covering all your bases.

The “never be a vaccine” is based on no corona virus, common cold, SARS1, MERS had a vaccine made. It’s actually a legitimate concern.

 

[CupWizier]

Just making the point that there are huge deaths over things we have control over as a society, nothing to do with what is or isn't contagious. Doesn't have to be right or wrong its just an opinion I expressed.
I just went through a car wash, in grocery store, liquor store, hardware store and drug store and there were herds of people.
6 people under 60 have died in Oregon and they had underlying conditions. I doubt we wait for a vaccine before things are totally opened up plus it can be up to the person to do as they like once the governor opens things up.

I have not seen anything from those in control suggest keeping states shut down until a vaccine has been made available

 

[Chris Craig]

I hope that A: this is true B: during the lull (if there is one) we don't go right back to our old ways of careless hygiene, etc. C: they are able to find a cure/vaccine asap during said lull.

You hope the coronavirus is going to be seasonal and keep coming back?

 

[magnifier661]

You hope the coronavirus is going to be seasonal and keep coming back?

I hope it’s like SARS and MERS where it eventually just goes away

 

[MickZagger]

 

[Hoopguru]

I have not seen anything from those in control suggest keeping states shut down until a vaccine has been made available

I said totally open and I was commenting on Oregon. I favor a govern approach and each State is control of what they want to do. I think Oregon is getting close to the 14 days if not already to go into phase one soon.

 

[julius]

You hope the coronavirus is going to be seasonal and keep coming back?

I think you and I both know what I meant.

 

[yankeesince59]

Understood and agreed. However i'm not sure how that relates to the discussion at hand regarding Tennessee's decision to reopen and the numbers regarding the virus in their state that you referenced as indicating the leveling off is not happening?

We are all using the same info provided in the posts above in this discussion, so to me, it seems its apples to apples whether the numbers are scewed or not, the math is still the same.

Unless the goal posts are now being moved from " Tennessee's curve is not flatlined and they are making a bad decision", to "The media has not provided truthful information regarding Tennessee's numbers", of which then I don't think any of us would have anything credible to base a judgement off of.

As far as I can tell the discussion was about whether Tennessee was making a correct decision and you provided a graph in defense of your opinion. Are you now saying that the graph you used is not trustworthy?

Seems the conversation took a shift all of a sudden?

My goodness...no, we're not all using the same info/graphs. The one I posted is from a completely different site, and it shows that when Tennessee decided to open up again they had just had "5 successive days of a large sudden spike" in the number of
new cases"...sorry, but that's not "leveling off" and it is certainly not within the "14-15 day" time period prescribed by the Fed.

Reread @wizenheimer 's post #8620, he even says that there's a lot of ways to look at some of this data and different parameters.

This is part of what I tried to explain about "misinformation" in my previous post...and i don't see why it needed explaining again for about the FIFTH time.