OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (1 Viewer)

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jonnyboy said:
Im just glad we’ve found a cure for influenza.
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We did. Its called washing your hands, wearing a mask in public places and a flu vaccine. Last year flu was basically nonexistant. Also moderna is in trials for a universal flu vaccine based on the same rna tech as the covid shot. HIV vaccine is also in the works.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/politics/alabama-governor-kay-ivey-unvaccinated-covid/index.html

Washington(CNN)Alabama Republican Gov. Kay Ivey on Thursday called out "the unvaccinated folks" for the rise in Covid-19 cases in her state, a remarkable plea at a time when many GOP leaders are refusing to urge people to get vaccinated even as Covid-19 cases surge in many parts of the country.

"Folks are supposed to have common sense. But it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down," Ivey told reporters in Birmingham.
 
jonnyboy said:
There are very few, if any, politicians on either side explicitly telling people NOT to get the vaccine.
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Gotcha. So you only care about explicitly telling people not to get vaccinated. You're okay with all the people who are merely spewing dangerous misinformation which has resulted in a large portion of the population not getting vaccinated... haha. Semantics are fun. You do realize that both create the same result, right? Way to keep moving the goalpost.

If all you care about is people having the right to decide, then you should also care that people are actually informed on the facts before deciding. Or does that not matter to you?
 
barfo said:
I wish we had a national Dumbass Award that could be given to all these people who are finding out that their stupid decisions have predictable negative consequences.

barfo
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Darwin awards.
 
barfo said:
I think those numbers must be incomplete for the last couple of weeks. It seems statistically unlikely that deaths from all causes would drop by a factor of 2.

Edit: yeah, I guess that theory is correct. From the link:

Therefore, the data shown on this page may be incomplete, and will likely not include all deaths that occurred during a given time period, especially for the more recent time periods. Death counts for earlier weeks are continually revised and may increase or decrease as new and updated death certificate data are received from the states by NCHS. COVID-19 death counts shown here may differ from other published sources, as data currently are lagged by an average of 1–2 weeks.

barfo
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Or Vaccines work.
 
barfo said:
I was thinking more of something the President could award at Four Seasons Landscaping.
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That president could have been a recipient if we, the people, did not pay for his super-expensive drug cocktail to keep him polluting the earth with his garbage.
 
donkiez said:
Its looking more and more like everyone needs to worry to some degree.
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.. and this is why it is so hard to feel bad for the unvaccinated that get it and suffer. It is a little bit like feeling bad for a suicide bomber that loses his life when his belief in his false god makes the explosives go boom... the unvaccinated because of their "religious" reasons are hurting others with their stupidity.
 
Love the NFL and others starting to take a stance on this. Fine, don’t vaccinate. Fuck yourself on the way out guys.
 
donkiez said:
We did. Its called washing your hands, wearing a mask in public places and a flu vaccine. Last year flu was basically nonexistant. Also moderna is in trials for a universal flu vaccine based on the same rna tech as the covid shot. HIV vaccine is also in the works.
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Neat theory, too bad it didn’t work for covid, a virus that spreads the same way.

“Well that’s because IDIOTS refused to wear masks and social distance!”

But somehow, the flu still disappeared?

This logic isn’t doing it for me.
 
jonnyboy said:
Neat theory, too bad it didn’t work for covid.

“Well that’s because IDIOTS refused to wear masks and social distance!”

But somehow, the flu still disappeared?

This logic isn’t doing it for me.
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How do you know it didn't work for Covid?

How do you know washing hands, social distancing, and masks didn't reduce covid sickness and death?

Just because these things appear to have even a great effect on the flu doesn't mean they didn't help with Covid.

I've said it over a dozen times in this thread, there are a lot of great scientific and medical data that will come from this for years.

Often large corporations have offered bonuses to employees to not use their sick time. Maybe incentivizing employees to come to work ill actually costs businesses more in overall workplace illnesses and productivity losses.

We're already seeing that by paying greater attention to in-hospital cleanliness and PPE has greatly reduced secondary infections.

Knowledge gained from tragedy is still beneficial.
 
jonnyboy said:
Neat theory, too bad it didn’t work for covid, a virus that spreads the same way.

“Well that’s because IDIOTS refused to wear masks and social distance!”

But somehow, the flu still disappeared?

This logic isn’t doing it for me.
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Covid and the flu are two different viruses that transmit is similar but not exactly the same way. Covid appears to be more aggressive in it's ability to transmit in certain circumstances. As sly said, how do you know it didn't work? If you look at data from countries who took measures seriously then you see significantly lower transmission rates, that seems like a direct connection to me. To take your comment to an extreme example, would you feel like you have a better chance of avoiding Covid if an infected person spit on ground or in your mouth?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
ow do you know it didn't work for Covid?

How do you know washing hands, social distancing, and masks didn't reduce covid sickness and death?
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How do you know it did? Is there even a way to prove it? Claiming those methods worked nearly flawlessly against one virus but not for another one that spreads in the same way, within the same intermixed populace, is a logical fallacy IMO. I would say that theory needs work.

As to the rest, that’s fine. I too think we’ll learn a whole hell of a lot from the past couple years. And not just in the fields of medicine and biology. Any political science or psychology professionals should be taking notes on the human behavior of late.
 
HailBlazers said:
How do you know they didnt count Flu deaths as Covid deaths?
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1. Because healthcare professionals actually want to make people better.
2. Malpractice.
3. We have tests that quickly and accurately differentiate between the flu and covid.
4. Because many hospitals ran very low on the equipment and supplies needed to treat people with covid. Not doing simple blood work to find out what was wrong with the patient and how to treat them would have made that worse.
5. Because this was a pandemic and local hospitals were working with state and federal health officials. If hospitals would have been misreporting flu as covid it would have been quickly found out by state contact tracing.
6. Because testing sewage in waste treatment plants for disease supported the rise of covid and the lessoning of the flu.

I'm sure I could come up with more but these are off the top of my head.

Let's see what the googles have to say...



The claim: CDC admitted adding flu and pneumonia deaths to COVID-19 death count
A Facebook post claims the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention admitted adding flu and pneumonia deaths to the COVID-19 death count

Claims that the CDC “corrected” or “adjusted” the number of COVID-19 deaths to a lower number fuel conspiracy theories that the coronavirus pandemic is a hoax.

Conservative filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza tweeted May 2, “Just like that, CDC reduces its #Coronavirus death count to 37,000. That’s nearly HALF the total they were peddling. Did 30,000 people spring back to life like Lazarus? No, this seems a 'gaffe' – defined as a case of the CDC accidentally telling the truth.” The post was retweeted more than 20,000 times.

USA TODAY reached out to the person who made the Facebook post and D’Souza for comment but did not receive a response.

Provisional deaths versus confirmed and probable deaths
As of April 14, the CDC regularly updates two measurements of COVID-19 deaths: provisional deaths (verified by death certificates) and confirmed and probable cases (deaths suspected to have been caused by COVID-19).

The number of provisional deaths is based on data from the National Vital Statistics System, used by the National Center for Health Statistics, which records information from death certificates. This number lags the number of confirmed and probable cases because, according to the CDC’s website, “it can take several weeks for death records to be submitted to (NCHS), processed, coded, and tabulated. Therefore, the data shown on this page may be incomplete, and will likely not include all deaths that occurred during a given time period, especially for the more recent time periods.”

Provisional deaths lag other counts by one or two weeks. The discrepancy has been a source of confusion in some of the posts claiming the CDC corrected or adjusted its count.

When a Twitter user tried to correct D’Souza’s tweet with a screenshot of the number of confirmed and probable cases, D’Souza responded with a screenshot of the number of provisional deaths, saying, “See for yourself,” as if the two numbers were the same calculation.

Uncertain counts
Experts acknowledge there has been widespread underreporting of COVID-19 deaths since the start of the pandemic, so any death tolls do not present the full picture.

Fact check:Is US coronavirus death toll inflated? Experts agree it's probably the opposite

The New York Times reported in April that although the extent of the problem is not clear, a lack of testing, varying requirements for testing, inconsistent protocols for reporting deaths at the local and state level and people dying before being tested means many COVID-19 deaths were never counted.

Coronavirus's annual death toll can't be calculated, compared

NPR reported in May that this issue has not improved. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in a Senate hearing that month the death count is “almost certainly" higher.

COVID-19 death counts have increased, not decreased
Despite incomplete death counts, archived versions of both of the CDC’s coronavirus death counts – provisional and confirmed and probable – have continued to increase since the virus started spreading. There have been no instances of either death count being significantly reduced, as claimed in the Facebook post.

Fact check:CDC's estimates COVID-19 death rate around 0.26%, doesn't confirm it

CDC’s reporting on pneumonia- or influenza-related COVID-19 deaths
The Facebook user claimed the CDC admitted “adding pneumonia and flu with COVID deaths.” This is not true, as Bob Anderson, NCHS chief of mortality statistics, confirmed to AFP Fact Check.

Fact check:CDC has not stopped reporting flu deaths, and this season's numbers are typical

The CDC has changed the extent and format in which it publicly displays death statistics relating to COVID-19 and the other illnesses, which may have contributed to confusion.

According to archived web pages, the CDC has displayed “deaths with pneumonia and COVID-19” next to the count of all provisional COVID-19 deaths since April 3. On April 24, the CDC added a column for deaths from pneumonia, influenza or COVID-19 in addition to the total of COVID-19 deaths.

the CDC’s website says. "Additionally, COVID-19 symptoms can be similar to influenza-like illness, thus deaths may be misclassified as influenza."
Despite these new variations, the total provisional count of deaths involving COVID-19 was not significantly reduced. The same goes for confirmed and probable deaths, which continued to increase.
Despite these new variations, the total provisional count of deaths involving COVID-19 was not significantly reduced. The same goes for confirmed and probable deaths, which continued to increase.

Our ruling: False
Although it’s unclear where the Facebook user found the numbers, the CDC did not lower the death count, nor did it admit adding influenza and pneumonia to its COVID-19 death count. The user may have confused the CDC’s additional reporting of influenza and pneumonia-related deaths or the fact that the CDC reports two different counts for COVID-19 deaths. We rate this claim FALSE because it is not supported by our research.



Our fact-check sources:​
 
donkiez said:
Covid and the flu are two different viruses that transmit is similar but not exactly the same way. Covid appears to be more aggressive in it's ability to transmit in certain circumstances. As sly said, how do you know it didn't work? If you look at data from countries who took measures seriously then you see significantly lower transmission rates, that seems like a direct connection to me. To take your comment to an extreme example, would you feel like you have a better chance of avoiding Covid if an infected person spit on ground or in your mouth?
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So your stance is that there was enough masking and social distancing to nearly eliminate the flu, but only curb covid because it is more virulent? This seems to be what you and sly are suggesting.

If so, then shouldn’t flu rates have stayed pretty consistent in the states where people weren’t taking masking/distancing measures, when compared to a pre-covid year?

Not trying to conspiracy theorize but these seem like pretty rational questions.
 
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jonnyboy said:
How do you know it did? Is there even a way to prove it? Claiming those methods worked nearly flawlessly against one virus but not for another one that spreads in the same way, within the same intermixed populace, is a logical fallacy IMO. I would say that theory needs work.

As to the rest, that’s fine. I too think we’ll learn a whole hell of a lot from the past couple years. And not just in the fields of medicine and biology. Any political science or psychology professionals should be taking notes on the human behavior of late.
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Different countries approached how to control and reduce the spread of Covid in different ways and methods. Some choose not to try to reduce the spread at all. Also the rates of vaccines being available to countries is wildly different. As time passes and we get more and more real-world data we'll be able to see exactly what worked and how well it worked.

Comparing covid and flu rates between countries like New Zealand and Brazil will be fascinating because they took drastically different methods to address this.

Also as we move into fall and winter, kids back in school, parents at work, we'll get new data that will be interesting to compare to countries that haven't matched our vaccine rates.
 
jonnyboy said:
So your stance is that there was enough masking and social distancing to nearly eliminate the flu, but only curb covid because it is more virulent? This seems to be what you and sly are suggesting.

If so, then shouldn’t flu rates have stayed pretty consistent in the states where people weren’t taking these measures, as opposed to pre-covid?

Not trying to conspiracy theorize but these seem like pretty rational questions.
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It took us thousands of years to learn that we shouldn't shit and piss in the same place we get our drinking water. That caused many diseases and infections simply disappear overnight when we stop mixing those two.

Maybe the spread of some variants of the flu can be greatly reduced by being cleaner and avoiding each other if we think we're sick.

What we know now is the spread of things like the flu and MERSA are way down. This happened while we were taking drastic steps to reduce the spread of Covid. At first look, this does not seem to be a coincidence. That something(s) we did to stop and/or reduce the spread of covid was effective in other areas.
 
jonnyboy said:
So your stance is that there was enough masking and social distancing to nearly eliminate the flu, but only curb covid because it is more virulent? This seems to be what you and sly are suggesting.

If so, then shouldn’t flu rates have stayed pretty consistent in the states where people weren’t taking masking/distancing measures, when compared to a pre-covid year?

Not trying to conspiracy theorize but these seem like pretty rational questions.
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Yea that's pretty much my stance. Different virus has different characteristics even when they have similarities. Ebola and HIV are also a virus but both transmit is a significantly different way. Some precautions you take to protect yourself from HIV probably also work to reduce your chances of getting Ebola.

Over the last year people have been taking measures to social distance in all states, some states just had more people doing it than others. So it's not like say South Carolina and Texas had no masks and hand sanitizer, compared to 2019 those were being used 1000x more.
 
jonnyboy said:
Neat theory, too bad it didn’t work for covid, a virus that spreads the same way.

“Well that’s because IDIOTS refused to wear masks and social distance!”

But somehow, the flu still disappeared?

This logic isn’t doing it for me.
Click to expand...

Covid and the flu don't really "spread the same way". Covid is significantly more transmissible.

It's a bit like saying "how come this deodorant covers up my BO, but when I got sprayed by a skunk, everyone held their noses and backed away? They are both odors, after all!"

barfo
 
Is it true that as more people are vaccinated it impedes the virus from mutating. I heard a doctor state this, and the delta variant is much more aggressive and deadly? More mutations to come.
 
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