OT Coronavirus: America in chaos, News and Updates. One million Americans dead and counting (4 Viewers)

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jonnyboy said:
How can you say it would be eliminated? There is no basis for that statement. They can’t even decide how many booster shots we’ll need and you’re suggesting the vaccine is a cure. Many fully vaccinated people are even foregoing boosters at this point because they feel mislead by the claims of the supposed efficacy of the original inoculations.
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I call bullshit. Credible source? The booster isn't even approved, aside for old folks and others who are considered high-risk.

Aside from some religious zealots, I don't personal know anyone is not vaccinated. And not a single person of this group is wavering in their intention of the booster. Sure, this is anecdotal, but it's far more credible than your claim. I see more articles claiming Americans have been getting boosters for months but afraid to acknowledge it and lying to obtain them than I have about folks fearful of a booster shot.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
The math is incredibly simple. But thanks for your well reasoned response.
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Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that you were Omnipotent. You know everyone washes their hands after going to the bathroom?( Yes, pissing, is included in 'washing the hands.') You have seen everyone now coughs and sneezes into their shoulder and not into the open air or their hands/fist? No one uses the 5 second rule anymore? If anybody would know it would be you.

Since you are so 'All knowing' anyways, you would have known about the virus and everything that has happened to this point and you did nothing to alert anyone. What kind of asshole are you to keep silent about such an important matter?

So are you finally willing to admit to all of the world, your incredible gift or accept my last post of 'Bullshit' and have some humility that you know just as much as all the rest of us?
 
RipCityDSCPL said:
Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that you were Omnipotent. You know everyone washes their hands after going to the bathroom?( Yes, pissing, is included in 'washing the hands.') You have seen everyone now coughs and sneezes into their shoulder and not into the open air or their hands/fist? No one uses the 5 second rule anymore? If anybody would know it would be you.

Since you are so 'All knowing' anyways, you would have known about the virus and everything that has happened to this point and you did nothing to alert anyone. What kind of asshole are you to keep silent about such an important matter?

So are you finally willing to admit to all of the world, your incredible gift or accept my last post of 'Bullshit' and have some humility that you know just as much as all the rest of us?
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Bullshit
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I call bullshit. Credible source? The booster isn't even approved, aside for old folks and others who are considered high-risk.

Aside from some religious zealots, I don't personal know anyone is not vaccinated. And not a single person of this group is wavering in their intention of the booster. Sure, this is anecdotal, but it's far more credible than your claim. I see more articles claiming Americans have been getting boosters for months but afraid to acknowledge it and lying to obtain them than I have about folks fearful of a booster shot.
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Your completely anecdotal claim is ‘far more credible’ than my anecdotal claim?

I call bullshit. Credible source?

There isn’t a statistic or link for every aspect of human life. I personally know a lot of vaccinated people, or at least have heard others talk about people who got the shots, did their ‘due diligence’, got locked down, masked up or simply got covid anyway and are done with playing covid catch-up with a bunch of experts who can’t get it right.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
The math is incredibly simple. But thanks for your well reasoned response.
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This is where your fallacy lies. Claiming something is ‘incredibly simple’ when even the experts are flailing. Maybe you should be the one on TV giving directives?
 
Tyrant of Ants said:
The key is, they're much less likely to be hospitalized.
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Good for them. I’m guessing that’s why they got the shot in the first place. Now if we could just explain why they become so hysterical at the prospect of others not getting it it might make a tiny bit of sense. This constant flip flopping between “it works!” And “stay away don’t kill me!” is getting tired.
 
jonnyboy said:
Good for them. I’m guessing that’s why they got the shot in the first place. Now if we could just explain why they become so hysterical at the prospect of others not getting it it might make a tiny bit of sense. This constant flip flopping between “it works!” And “stay away don’t kill me!” is getting tired.
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It does work though. And people can still get sick. It’s both. They both are true. Both. Think through this. It’s numbers and odds and percentages. To use a “tired” example. Seat belts. They work. And you can still die. It’s insane this is still not understood.
 
calvin natt said:
To use a “tired” example. Seat belts. They work. And you can still die.
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Tired indeed. and very loosely comparable.

Seatbelts aren’t a medical treatment, don’t have side effects and aren’t permanently strapped to your body. You also don’t have privileges taken for not wearing them, aside from in states where they are running low on funding.
 
jonnyboy said:
Tired indeed. and very loosely comparable.

Seatbelts aren’t a medical treatment, don’t have side effects and aren’t permanently strapped to your body. You also don’t have privileges taken for not wearing them, aside from in states where they are running low on funding.
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You get a ticket, that’s the penalty. We should do it for the vaccine too. What are the COVID vax side effects, I haven’t heard of them? The ouchy after?
 
jonnyboy said:
Tired indeed. and very loosely comparable.

Seatbelts aren’t a medical treatment, don’t have side effects and aren’t permanently strapped to your body. You also don’t have privileges taken for not wearing them, aside from in states where they are running low on funding.
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vaccines aren't treatment either...they're protection from allowing the virus to kill you....treatment is not the same as vaccination...you like to harp on about facts...there's one you missed
 
jonnyboy said:
Your completely anecdotal claim is ‘far more credible’ than my anecdotal claim?

I call bullshit. Credible source?

There isn’t a statistic or link for every aspect of human life. I personally know a lot of vaccinated people, or at least have heard others talk about people who got the shots, did their ‘due diligence’, got locked down, masked up or simply got covid anyway and are done with playing covid catch-up with a bunch of experts who can’t get it right.
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Yup. My anecdote actually had some form of substance and reference to the people around me, even if it's an anecdote. And I could actually acknowledge it was an anecdote up front. 99% of the shit you're spewing in here is complete anecdotal. I didn't provide links to the various articles, but my statement about seeing more articles about folks pushing for boosters was otherwise correct (and I was too lazy to put links, but the ignorance here motivated me to provide some here).

And you made a completely false statement about people fearing the booster and choosing to avoid it. That's not even anecdotal - that's flatly incorrect. How can people forgo a booster that hadn't otherwise been made available? Emergency use authorization was just approved two days ago, and only for people over 65 and those at high-risk. That's just authorization (I'm unclear whether it's now available). So there is no data or proof of your claims.

Even articles, whether without much scientific substance.... Google "Americans fear booster" and the hits are all about how people decided to not wait for approval and went and already received boosters. Nothing about fearing the booster, all about fearing the virus and choosing they would rather lie to receive a booster. And articles about how the booster was finally approved. Nothing about folks fearing the boosters. The only folks concerned about the boosters are the folks that haven't had the vax at all.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/14/us/politics/coronavirus-booster-shots.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/17/booster-shots-biden-administration
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/booster-bandits-ethics/620048/
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...ize-boostersbut-many-already-got-a-third-dose
 
jonnyboy said:
Blood clots, myocarditis.
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I have my heart looked at under a fine microscope regularly and get my labs done regularly due to my heart condition and my labs improved after vaccination and my last heart check there is no side effects nor clotting....I'm at high risk so if a vaccine could do that shit to me I'd be dead already...sorry...you're completely wrong about this and since you've already had covid....you should be more concerned on the long term affects that will have on your life ....the effects of covid are far more long term than the vaccine's long term effect on your health...this comes from my heart surgeon....I trust his info way more than the antivax blusterfest. There's a damned good reason medical professionals are all vaccinated..it's not because they want blood clots either
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
Yup. My anecdote actually had some form of substance and reference to the people around me, even if it's an anecdote. And I could actually acknowledge it was an anecdote up front. 99% of the shit you're spewing in here is complete anecdotal. I didn't provide links to the various articles, but my statement about seeing more articles about folks pushing for boosters was otherwise correct (and I was too lazy to put links, but the ignorance here motivated me to provide some here).

And you made a completely false statement about people fearing the booster and choosing to avoid it. That's not even anecdotal - that's flatly incorrect. How can people forgo a booster that hadn't otherwise been made available? Emergency use authorization was just approved two days ago, and only for people over 65 and those at high-risk. That's just authorization (I'm unclear whether it's now available). So there is no data or proof of your claims.

Even articles, whether without much scientific substance.... Google "Americans fear booster" and the hits are all about how people decided to not wait for approval and went and already received boosters. Nothing about fearing the booster, all about fearing the virus and choosing they would rather lie to receive a booster. And articles about how the booster was finally approved. Nothing about folks fearing the boosters. The only folks concerned about the boosters are the folks that haven't had the vax at all.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/14/us/politics/coronavirus-booster-shots.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/17/booster-shots-biden-administration
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/booster-bandits-ethics/620048/
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...ize-boostersbut-many-already-got-a-third-dose
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Quit reading a couple sentences in after you accused me of lying. Didn’t click the link either.
 
jonnyboy said:
This is where your fallacy lies. Claiming something is ‘incredibly simple’ when even the experts are flailing. Maybe you should be the one on TV giving directives?
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But the experts aren't flailing. You saying that doesn't make it fact. No legitimate expert has any trouble understanding what needs to happen.

The only thing they're struggling with is how to convince people who have become used to trusting snake oil salesmen to...
 
jonnyboy said:
Good for them. I’m guessing that’s why they got the shot in the first place. Now if we could just explain why they become so hysterical at the prospect of others not getting it it might make a tiny bit of sense. This constant flip flopping between “it works!” And “stay away don’t kill me!” is getting tired.
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We pay a ton for our healthcare in this country.

We don't pay that much to be ignored in a medical emergency by overworked doctors and nurses who are busy in ICUs full of unvaccinated people.
 
jonnyboy said:
Blood clots, myocarditis.
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Less than 1% have gotten blood clots from the vaccine. Myocarditis is 1/1000. Here’s the thing. Who are these people who are concerned with these odds of a health issue but not afraid of the health issue that has killed 650,000 and infected millions more? It makes zero sense.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Federal Court: Anti-Vaxxers Do Not Have a Constitutional or Statutory Right to Endanger Everyone Else

Today we discuss a putative class action in which the named plaintiffs are a registered nurse who refuses to take a basic precaution to protect her vulnerable patients and a mother who is more interested in displaying her livestock than protecting her neighbors. Brought on behalf of all New Mexico residents who are equally selfish, the plaintiffs sought an injunction barring the state from enforcing a public health order that requires (with limited exceptions) all hospital, nursing-home, assisted-living-facility, adult-day-care, rehabilitation-facility, and prison workers, all employees of the governor’s office, and all who would enter the New Mexico State Fair grounds to be vaccinated against the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which causes COVID-19. The plaintiffs asserted various constitutional and statutory claims. In a thorough and trenchant decision, Valdez v. Grisham, — F. Supp. 3d —-, 2021 WL 4145746 (D.N.M. 2021), a federal district court rejected them all. That is consistent with long-standing precedent and other recent decisions—as we discussed here, here, and here.

The plaintiffs’ first claim was that requiring them to be vaccinated with “experimental” vaccines violated the FDCA. The claim was predicated on the fact that, at the time suit was filed, the three SARS-CoV-2 vaccines available in the United States—the Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson vaccines—had not received full FDA approval and were instead being distributed and administered under Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs). The plaintiffs claimed that requiring them to be vaccinated violated the terms of the vaccines’ EUAs, which require that those receiving each vaccine be informed of its “benefits and risks” and “of the option to accept or refuse” its administration. 2021 WL 4145746, at *4.

The court rejected the plaintiffs’ FDCA claim.

Implicitly responding to the plaintiffs’ assertion that the vaccines were “experimental,” the court recited at the outset both the extensive testing that each had undergone before the EUAs were granted, including “at least one well-designed Phase 3 clinical trial that demonstrate[d] the vaccine’s safety and efficacy in a clear and compelling manner,” and the fact that “[c]omprehensive data collected since the three vaccines received EUA status demonstrates that they are safe and highly effective in preventing infection and severe illness, and that serious adverse side effects from the vaccines are exceedingly rare.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *1. The court further observed that, “despite Plaintiffs’ protestation to the contrary, the FDA has now given its full approval—not just emergency use authorization—to the Pfizer vaccine” for administration to those 16 and older. Id. at *4. That did not moot the plaintiffs’ statutory claim, however, because the livestock-display-over-human-health plaintiff asserted the claim on behalf of not only herself but also her 11- and 12-year-old children, who were also keen to “show[] their animals” at the state fair. Id. at *2.

Addressing the merits of the plaintiffs’ FDCA claim, the court found that there were none. It explained that although the EUAs issued pursuant to the FDCA require “medical providers” administering the vaccines to inform would-be recipients of the risks associated with each vaccine and their right to refuse it, the EUAs do not prohibit the state from requiring individuals, duly informed by their medical providers, to be vaccinated. Id. at *4. In so holding, the court cited both Bridges v. Houston Methodist Hosp., 2021 WL 2399994, at *2 (S.D. Tex. 2021), which rejected a nearly-identical anti-vaxxer claim on the ground that the FDCA “neither expands nor restricts the responsibilities of private employers” and “does not confer a private opportunity to sue the government,” and a recent Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel memorandum opinion concluding that the FDCA’s informed-consent provision “specifies only that certain information be provided to potential vaccine recipients and does not prohibit entities from imposing vaccination requirements.”

Having dispensed with their statutory claim, the court proceeded to dispense with the plaintiffs’ constitutional claims—brought under the Due Process, Equal Protection, and Contract Clauses.

Asserting a violation of their right to substantive due process, the plaintiffs alleged that they “‘have [constitutionally] protected liberty interests’ ‘in their right to live without governmental interference,’ their right ‘to bodily integrity,’ their right ‘to raise their children as they see fit,’ and their right ‘to engage in their chosen professions,’ and that because the state’s public health order is ‘not narrowly tailored,’ it violates these substantive due process rights.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5.

Relying on well-established constitutional precedent, the court explained that a two-part analytic framework applies when a legislative enactment or executive action is challenged on substantive due-process grounds. The first step is to identify the “fundamental liberty interest” purportedly at issue. The second step is to determine whether that interest “is ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition’ and ‘implicit in the concept of ordered liberty, such that neither liberty nor justice would exist if they were sacrificed.’” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5 (indirectly quoting Washington v. Glucksberg, 521 U.S. 702, 720–21 (1997)). If the asserted liberty interest meets that standard, then the government may not infringe it “‘unless the infringement is narrowly tailored to serve a compelling state interest.’” Id. (quoting Glucksberg, 521 U.S. at 721). If, by contrast, the legislative enactment or executive action “does not implicate a fundamental right,” the action is permissible if it “bear a rational relationship to a legitimate government interest.” Id. (quotation marks omitted).

The court found that the plaintiffs did “not explain how the rights allegedly violated by the [public health order] are fundamental.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5.

https://www.druganddevicelawblog.co...tatutory-right-to-endanger-everyone-else.html
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Of course. I can't believe that anyone would dispute this.
 
crandc said:
I don't kiss and tell.
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I do. Oh, not now because I would talk even more than I do without the kissing. I kiss my wife every chance. If I could have my way I'd sew my lips to my wife's lips. How would I eat? Who needs to eat when you got those beauties sewed to your lips.
 
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