Cover Oregon

[blazerboy30]

Myself, having just spent 6 weeks in England I was pretty surprised at how many small-business types I met. Two of my wife's best friends' husbands were successful small business owners, and they seemed pretty optimistic about the future. Both had two kids under the age of 10. It never even occurred to either that this was somehow an impediment to them starting a business.

Meanwhile, my brother, who is very similar to these two guys, would never think of starting his own business because he's so desperate for health care for his own kids. He's a smart guy, but he works a pretty lowly job because it offers a decent health care plan.

I asked these guys (one owns an ad agency, the other a wedding photo business, both started about 10 years ago) if they thought it was particularly onerous to start a business there in terms of regulation. They shrugged and didn't really seem to understand the question.

Obviously, this is a small anecdote and hardly concrete proof. But I could definitely see myself starting a business there, just as I did here. And frankly, it might be less stressful.

I don't think anybody will argue with you that the cost of healthcare makes starting your own business or keeping your small business and employees more risky and difficult.

Unfortunately, the ACA doesn't help in this regard.

 

[blazerboy30]

Look, I was against Obamacare for all of the reasons that you and Maxie are stating. That said, it's the law of the land...at least for now...and I don't think it's right to ding people for taking advantage of the program if they qualify. This isn't a true free market society and virtually all of us take advantage of some form of government program that saves us money. If you own a house and take advantage of the write-off for home mortgage interest to lower your taxes does that mean that people who don't own a home should get to rag on you if you spend your subsidized tax savings on a new car or plasma TV? I don't see the difference between the two situations.

I get what you're saying. But on the other hand, I don't think we should just accept something because it's been made law.

Since you asked about the mortgage interest deduction... I personally think there is a big, big difference between having my effective tax rate reduced on the money that I worked during the year to earn, compared to the government giving me somebody else's money. Some think that the government reducing tax rates is the same as increasing government spending. I don't believe that.

Using your food stamps example... does it bother you if / when you see somebody buying beer with cash and then using food stamps for their groceries?

 

[BlazerWookee]

I'm talking about this one... never seen the one you linked.

[video=youtube;Xv2UUcXCo9g]

I fucking hate those commercials. I'm not altogether sure why.

 

[mook]

That commercial is a hipster annoying piece of shit.

Why not just fucking explain what the fuck you do. Nobody understands this and you spend the entire minute saying nothing but the website name.

Some marketing genius thought "brand awareness," which is why I often hate marketing geniuses. Everybody is aware Obamacare is coming. A useful commercial would try to explain what will happen.

 

[mook]

I don't think anybody will argue with you that the cost of healthcare makes starting your own business or keeping your small business and employees more risky and difficult.

Unfortunately, the ACA doesn't help in this regard.

I'm not sold on the ACA, but it can't be worse than what we have now. My hope is that both parties can iron out the problems with it. It was never meant to be the Final Finished Product, but a starting point for a more sane system. Much like Medicare and Medicaid have evolved over time. I guess we'll see.

 

[blazerboy30]

I'm not sold on the ACA, but it can't be worse than what we have now. My hope is that both parties can iron out the problems with it. It was never meant to be the Final Finished Product, but a starting point for a more sane system. Much like Medicare and Medicaid have evolved over time. I guess we'll see.

I'm not convinced that the ACA won't be worse than what we have now. Obviously it depends on how you value the different aspects such as cost, performance, wait times, etc, etc.

 

[Shooter]

[video=youtube;43R_7UKvy2Y]


Based on this video, one would have to assume that only black people are going to benefit from Obamacare, but maybe that was the point?

 

[maxiep]

Link.

I think they fear becoming more like us than we fear becoming like them.

Thank you for providing links that agree with my thesis. We used to be the more mobile society. Gee? What has changed?

And for the record, the jump between classes isn't quite as far in Western Europe, as there isn't much difference between poor and middle class. However, almost no one is born poor and becomes wealthy in Europe. It used to be a fairly typical story here, now it's becoming more and more rare.

 

[maxiep]

I'm not sold on the ACA, but it can't be worse than what we have now. My hope is that both parties can iron out the problems with it. It was never meant to be the Final Finished Product, but a starting point for a more sane system. Much like Medicare and Medicaid have evolved over time. I guess we'll see.

I can virtually guarantee health outcomes will be worse than what they are now. Fewer physicians, higher costs for administration and bureaucracy, more time spent doing paper work all equals to less time administering medicine and more time and money dealing with the system.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Having a kid really changed me. I used to be much more of a Hobbsian , "Life is tough; I've got mine, screw everyone else" mindset. Now, I think about the future of this country, the future my son will inherit, and I shudder.

I have always wanted people to have hope, opportunity and have desired a meritocracy. However, what I see now is two worlds: A world where people are connected, that can obtain benefits based on who they know and the assets their previous generations have garnered; and a world where that is impossible.

It was difficult to make the jump from one world to the other, but it was possible with enough hard work. That bridge no longer exists. If I'm honest, I was born in one world and now live in the other. My son will be just fine. But I find the idea that future generations won't have the same opportunities I had--no matter their abilities--intolerable.

Bottom line, I want back the America in which I was raised, not this bastardized version of sclerotic Western Europe. And I will fight for it the rest of my days.

Repped. Spot fucking on!

 

[MarAzul]

Repped. Spot fucking on!

Ha! Control your self my good fellow. Save a little for tomorrow.

 

[e_blazer]

I expect the whole healthcare system to eventually become one gigantic Kaiser Permanente-type managed care institution, but with more bureaucracy, and fewer doctors per patient. For people who have had good healthcare plans, this will be a major downgrade in healthcare services. For those who have had no healthcare insurance and who have had to rely on emergency rooms, it will be an upgrade.

I think the thing that bugs me most is that there has been so little thought given to how to reduce healthcare costs. Everything until now has been squabbling about whether to have some form of national healthcare insurance system and whose pockets to pick to pay for it. Meanwhile, the healthcare and pharmaceuticals lobbies have been hard at work making sure that nothing is done to cut their costs and to ensure that they'll make even more money.

 

[blazerboy30]

I expect the whole healthcare system to eventually become one gigantic Kaiser Permanente-type managed care institution, but with more bureaucracy, and fewer doctors per patient. For people who have had good healthcare plans, this will be a major downgrade in healthcare services. For those who have had no healthcare insurance and who have had to rely on emergency rooms, it will be an upgrade.

I think the thing that bugs me most is that there has been so little thought given to how to reduce healthcare costs. Everything until now has been squabbling about whether to have some form of national healthcare insurance system and whose pockets to pick to pay for it. Meanwhile, the healthcare and pharmaceuticals lobbies have been hard at work making sure that nothing is done to cut their costs and to ensure that they'll make even more money.

I agree with everything, but your second paragraph is what I really align with.

The people with vested interest in this have done a great job of changing the debate of how to get healthcare costs under control to whether or not we should have Obamacare. Costs are not going to be reduced and no real effort has been put into doing so. Obama wants it passed because he wants his legacy, even though the higher costs are hidden.

 

[mook]

However, almost no one is born poor and becomes wealthy in Europe. It used to be a fairly typical story here, now it's becoming more and more rare.

One of the two small business owners I talked to there was clearly pulling down mad stacks of fat cash. He basically started with nothing from what my wife tells me. I don't know if he's truly wealthy compared to the 1% here in the US, but man oh man I'd love to have his bank account.

As to why we are less mobile, I get that you feel it's because of government intrusion and rent-seeking behavior of lobbiests and other hangers-on, coupled with Americans just not being as awesome (ie, agreeing with you) as they did back in your day. I doubt there's much I can say to convince you otherwise. And truthfully, I do see the rent-seeking thing as a major issue, but probably for different reasons.