Cover Oregon

[maxiep]

http://oregonstate.edu/cla/wlf/ GET OFF YOUR FUCKING HIGH HORSE.

It's a funny world when asking an adult to take care of themselves is getting on a fucking high horse.

 

[maxiep]

Man, if I only had a job that came with health insurance , I know I'd sleep better at night.


Sent from my baller ass iPad FAMS!

I know you do what you love, but perhaps a different profession may be better for your family. I know I had to make huge personal sacrifices for the sake of financial security. Hell, I wanted to go into the Foreign Service and see the world. Instead, I worked 80-110 hour weeks hunched over a computer in a Manhattan cubicle.

 

[maxiep]

http://oregonstate.edu/cla/wlf/ GET OFF YOUR FUCKING HIGH HORSE.

Oh, and if you're talking about that bullshit major, then no one should be surprised when those people can't find a job after graduation. But I guess they have dreams, and that's all that's important.

 

[Eastoff]

It's a funny world when asking an adult to take care of themselves is getting on a fucking high horse.

No, my point was that you condescendingly spoke that there is not such thing as a writing major.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I'd be curious as to what the younger people on this board who presently do not have health insurance are planning to do with regards to Cover Oregon.

this place is not a fair sample. If you consider that only 40% of the High School grads go on to collage in this state, and this board is for the most part collage kids, or guys with jobs that allow them to fuck off..not a lot of the 60% under employed or min wage earners..

 

[maxiep]

No, my point was that you condescendingly spoke that there is not such thing as a writing major.

It used to be that writing came with any major; social science, natural science or humanity. I suppose if someone is stupid enough to pursue that major, they deserve what they get.

 

[Natebishop3]

Are you talking about the BBQ music video type commercial?

I'm talking about this one... never seen the one you linked.

[video=youtube;Xv2UUcXCo9g]

 

[blazerboy30]

2 things, one, would you please send me some info on this. I am a freelance employee and have no benefits for me and my family and am very excited about this. For just health care for me my wife and kids, I'm spending $1500 a month and it is killing us! I would love to bug you if you don't mind, I have a ton of questions about this.

This is a perfect example of why these systems will never work.

We have HCP saying he can't afford to to provide his wife and kids with health insurance, and in another thread is talking about how he loves seeing the look on other peoples' faces when he's driving his Audi A6, and likes it because it is "comfortable".

Wow.

 

[Natebishop3]

This is a perfect example of why these systems will never work.

We have HCP saying he can't afford to to provide his wife and kids with health insurance, and in another thread is talking about how he loves seeing the look on other peoples' faces when he's driving his Audi A6, and likes it because it is "comfortable".

Wow.

That's not what he said at all. He said he's spending $1500 a month on healthcare for his family and he's interested in hearing about a cheaper alternative. Regardless of whether we agree or disagree on government healthcare, you can't fault someone for seeing an opportunity to lower their costs on something necessary like healthcare for their family.

 

[blazerboy30]

So option one is that someone else gets cheaper health care than you, but you still net 115k$/year or you could have option two where you "get it easy" and only make 62k$/year. That seems like a win/win to me. But what do I know, I'm struggling to break 33k$/year.

I think you should be paying for the insurance of those that are only making $32k per year.

 

[blazerboy30]

That's not what he said at all. He said he's spending $1500 a month on healthcare for his family and he's interested in hearing about a cheaper alternative. Regardless of whether we agree or disagree on government healthcare, you can't fault someone for seeing an opportunity to lower their costs on something necessary like healthcare for their family.

Then he said

And it's killing us.

Clearly it isn't "killing him" as he's liking the attention in his Audi.

I can fault somebody for looking to lower their costs when it comes at a higher cost for others.

 

[MarAzul]

I have lately come to the conclusion that the ACA was designed not to work. It's the public sector version of dumping (made popular by the Japanese steel industry in the 1980s). You bankrupt all the private insurance companies. Then the only answer is single-payer.

If my supposition is correct, it is the cruelest means of achieving a policy end in American history. People are going to suffer economically and others will die due to the intentional degradation of health care in this country.

Exactly what I have concluded, "designed not to work"! Now the only question I have is, Why fu*k the country up like this? I have no confidence what so ever they have any idea how to fix what they are breaking.
Who the hell is going to want to be a Doctor when everyone has a plastic card for him to swipe to request a government token. Medicare today pays 66% of cost to providers and hospitals. No no, the system is being dismantled and those in control have no friggin idea how to make a replacement system that will work.

 

[Natebishop3]

Then he said

Clearly it isn't "killing him" as he's liking the attention in his Audi.

I can fault somebody for looking to lower their costs when it comes at a higher cost for others.

Paying 1500 a month for healthcare would kill almost anyone that isn't filthy rich.

I'm not a fan of government programs because I think the government has no clue how to do anything efficiently, but at the same time the program exists and I can't fault him for taking advantage of something that already exists.

 

[maxiep]

Exactly what I have concluded, "designed not to work"! Now the only question I have is, Why fu*k the country up like this? I have no confidence what so ever they have any idea how to fix what they are breaking.
Who the hell is going to want to be a Doctor when everyone has a plastic card for him to swipe to request a government token. Medicare today pays 66% of cost to providers and hospitals. No no, the system is being dismantled and those in control have no friggin idea how to make a replacement system that will work.

The answer is simple and awful: It's the only way to get single payer. The people making the laws will always find a way not to be held to them. They'll get their healthcare. Lines and bureaucracy are for the little people.

It's why we have earmarked a pretty large sum to use as our future health care kitty. If one of us gets sick, we want to be able to get the care we need without having to sell all our assets. My heart breaks for the people who have to make that choice, but I would do the same. Possessions don't mean shit when compared to your life or the life of a family member.

 

[Natebishop3]

In my opinion, the government needs a complete rebuild financially. Every program needs to be cut and cleared and then rebuilt from the ground up. There needs to be more oversight on spending, and some of the fat needs to be trimmed. My problem isn't necessarily with the programs themselves, it's with the way the money is being spent and the complete disregard for any kind of fiscal responsibility. The government blows cash like they can just print more (har har).

I was looking at our income tax and I saw that we qualified for the 25% federal income tax bracket. What exactly is my 25% federal income tax buying me? Jack and shit.

 

[Eastoff]

In my opinion, the government needs a complete rebuild financially. Every program needs to be cut and cleared and then rebuilt from the ground up. There needs to be more oversight on spending, and some of the fat needs to be trimmed. My problem isn't necessarily with the programs themselves, it's with the way the money is being spent and the complete disregard for any kind of fiscal responsibility. The government blows cash like they can just print more (har har).

I was looking at our income tax and I saw that we qualified for the 25% federal income tax bracket. What exactly is my 25% federal income tax buying me? Jack and shit.

I'm okay with this idea of starting fresh, but I am concerned who will be the people making the decisions on the new system.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm okay with this idea of starting fresh, but I am concerned who will be the people making the decisions on the new system.

That's the rub. I don't trust congress at all.

These days, I wonder how an online vote for programs and spending would go.

 

[MarAzul]

The answer is simple and awful: It's the only way to get single payer. The people making the laws will always find a way not to be held to them. They'll get their healthcare. Lines and bureaucracy are for the little people.

It's why we have earmarked a pretty large sum to use as our future health care kitty. If one of us gets sick, we want to be able to get the care we need without having to sell all our assets. My heart breaks for the people who have to make that choice, but I would do the same. Possessions don't mean shit when compared to your life or the life of a family member.

I think your right, that is their vision but I have no confidence they can make that work in this country Too short on doctors and we have no backup plan to the south like the Canadians had.
No, we have mental midgets run amok, voted in by a vast new crop of mental midgets happy to follow the sound of the pipe.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think your right, that is their vision but I have no confidence they can make that work in this country Too short on doctors and we have no backup plan to the south like the Canadians had.
No, we have mental midgets run amok, voted in by a vast new crop of mental midgets happy to follow the sound of the pipe.

The problem is that I think people have their heart in the right place, but they aren't thinking logically.

Sure, I would love for everyone to have a job, have healthcare, have a place to live and a place to eat, etc. But the government can't pay for all that, and we shouldn't have to pay for everyone else. Communism was a novel idea, but it didn't work in practice. Things have to fail sometimes. The government never should have bailed out the banks or the airlines or the auto industry. They money didn't even go where it was supposed to. The ideas are honorable, but the execution is horrible and that always seems to be the case with the government.

 

[maxiep]

Paying 1500 a month for healthcare would kill almost anyone that isn't filthy rich.

I'm not a fan of government programs because I think the government has no clue how to do anything efficiently, but at the same time the program exists and I can't fault him for taking advantage of something that already exists.

$1,500 is steep, but it's for a family of four. Healthcare shouldn't be that expensive, but it's dictated by the government. He has to pay for all sorts of coverage he may or may not need. He would be better off with a catastrophic health care plan with a $5,000-$10,000 deductible, and pay for his family's checkups out of pocket. However, under our new health care structure, such a strategy is verboten.

As for taking advantage of such a program, of course he should. And the government knows it. That's how they get buy-in, by incentivizing states to set up exchanges and people to enter those exchanges. Unfortunately, they're bribing us with our own money.

Again, this isn't about health care or even health insurance. It's about control. And we're suckers for putting the government in control of our very life and death.

 

[maxiep]

In my opinion, the government needs a complete rebuild financially. Every program needs to be cut and cleared and then rebuilt from the ground up. There needs to be more oversight on spending, and some of the fat needs to be trimmed. My problem isn't necessarily with the programs themselves, it's with the way the money is being spent and the complete disregard for any kind of fiscal responsibility. The government blows cash like they can just print more (har har).

I was looking at our income tax and I saw that we qualified for the 25% federal income tax bracket. What exactly is my 25% federal income tax buying me? Jack and shit.

Agreed. Baseline budgeting must die. Every department needs to have a sunset clause unless reapproved by Congress and the President.

 

[maxiep]

I'm okay with this idea of starting fresh, but I am concerned who will be the people making the decisions on the new system.

Our elected officials. If you don't like the power people in the red states have over your life, you should become a devoted Federalist and defender of States' rights. Put the power of control over you in the hands of your elected officials in Oregon. And if you don't trust the folks in Eastern and Southern Oregon, devolve the power further into county and city hands. THOSE people have much more direct accountability than people in Salem or Washington, DC.

 

[maxiep]

I think your right, that is their vision but I have no confidence they can make that work in this country Too short on doctors and we have no backup plan to the south like the Canadians had.
No, we have mental midgets run amok, voted in by a vast new crop of mental midgets happy to follow the sound of the pipe.

My point is the decision makers know it won't work and they don't care. That's the awful part of it. They don't give two shits about health care. They care about power and control.

Tar. Feathers.

 

[Natebishop3]

Agreed. Baseline budgeting must die. Every department needs to have a sunset clause unless reapproved by Congress and the President.

I just look at all the money that's being thrown around in the name of national security and it makes me sick.

NSA
CIA
FBI
DHS
TSA

Good god it's completely out of control.

Then you start looking at the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marines and you think about the billions of dollars that we're spending on defense. I'm in favor of having a strong military, but there needs to be a balance.

I think we need to severely cut back on the policing of America. The NSA needs to cease to exist. The FBI is fine, and the CIA is reasonable, but DHS needs to go away. TSA needs to go away. The Military needs a financial overhaul, especially in the way that we handle contracts.

Like I said, the whole damn thing needs to hit the reset button.

 

[THE HCP]

Then he said

Clearly it isn't "killing him" as he's liking the attention in his Audi.

I can fault somebody for looking to lower their costs when it comes at a higher cost for others.

You actually ARE a prick. What is your problem with me. Do you feel you need to constantly judge me or critique me? I have a $300 car payment and a $1500 a month health insurance payment. I saw this and am admittedly not up to speed on all the new healthcare changes and options. So I mention I'd like to find out more info on it and you come on here and bash me.

Nate, thanks for kinda' having my back whether you meant to or not. Please put me on ignore......tired of reading your bullshit.

 

[maxiep]

What we're seeing here is a lot of stress, a lot of worry, a lot of uncertainty and a lot of change. It doesn't have to be this way. There are only a few whackjobs who would want to deny anyone health care. However, the ACA conflates health care with health insurance. They're not the same.

No one wants to bankrupt someone because of health care. However, most people I know would sell everything to save their own life and especially their spouse or child. There is a solution, where one isn't paying astronomical health care costs and still avoids the downside of a six or seven figure health care bill: catastrophic insurance. For those that want

Regardless of your station, pretty much every person in this country would be able to manage a $10,000 debt over the rest of their life. You pay cash for checkups, which because they were cash would be a hell of a lot cheaper than going through insurance.

How do you solve many of these problems? First, delink employment and health insurance. Make health insurance costs deductible for everyone. The system was created when we had wage freezes in the middle of the 20th century, so employers found other ways of compensating their employees to attract the best ones. It was an accident of history that should be eliminated.

Second, get rid of the law where insurance cannot be sold across states. Allow risk pooling across the country. Stop the madness of "one size fits all" insurance; allow people to select from a menu. Allow nurse practitioners to perform checkups. They would be the new health care entrepreneurs, hanging shingles all over the country. If they discovered a problem, they refer you to a physician.

Finally, allow and encourage health care savings accounts. They would be no different than a 401k, where when you needed the money, you paid tax on it, but it went into an account and grew tax-free. That way when you needed the money, it would be there for you.

The ACA was never about health care. It was about creating a bridge to single payer, where one size fits all and the government has control over your life and death. Bottom line, it was about control.

We're a country of individuals. We should be responsible for our own health care, and certainly should be capable of making our own decisions about what coverage we want and don't want. Having that control would eliminate so much of the stress and uncertainty we've seen in this thread. The beauty of the above proposal from an economic perspective is that it align incentives perfectly: You're encouraged to save, you're encouraged to shop around for the best deal that fits you and your needs, there's no disincentive to have a higher income, costs are kept in check by competition and the market and finally, there's no dead weight loss from government administrative costs.

This Administration has been even more divisive than the previous one, which I didn't think was possible. Worse, it's been intentional. How do we stop this constant baiting and trolling from our leaders? Give them less power. Giving them power over our life and death was a huge mistake and one that needs to be rectified.

 

[maxiep]

You actually ARE a prick. What is your problem with me. Do you feel you need to constantly judge me or critique me? I have a $300 car payment and a $1500 a month health insurance payment. I saw this and am admittedly not up to speed on all the new healthcare changes and options. So I mention I'd like to find out more info on it and you come on here and bash me.

Nate, thanks for kinda' having my back whether you meant to or not. Please put me on ignore......tired of reading your bullshit.

HCP, do you understand the point that was made here? It has nothing to do with you driving a nice car. It's that with the ACA, your lifestyle becomes the business of everyone that helps subsidize the health insurance of your family.

Your choices and your lifestyle is no one's business but your own. However, the government is making your decisions everyone's business. And it's not just the car you drive, but what you eat and how much exercise you get. That's the perniciousness of the ACA. It's not about "giving" you health care by forcing you to pay for an insurance policy you may or may not need. It's about exerting control over your life and making us communal.

There exist other alternatives to make your health care cost less expensive that have nothing to do with the government or anyone subsidizing you.

 

[Eastoff]

making us communal.

This is an interesting point you appear to make sound like a negative. I believe that humanity is communal by nature, as are most mammals.

 

[maxiep]

This is an interesting point you appear to make sound like a negative. I believe that humanity is communal by nature, as are most mammals.

It is a negative. Your life is none of my business, except those aspects with me you choose to share. There is voluntary communism and forced communism. The former is what we engage in here at S2. The ACA fosters the latter.

 

[Eastoff]

It is a negative. Your life is none of my business, except those aspects with me you choose to share. There is voluntary communism and forced communism. The former is what we engage in here at S2. The ACA fosters the latter.

there is some forced communism simply by living in the US though, disregarding the ACA.