Dame all but demanding vet roster

[TBpup]

I might throw Lively in there. Depends on the likelihood of him having any offensive game

I like Lively and apparently he can shoot better than he showed in college (Raphael Barlow), but #11 would seem like a Collins-like stretch.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

size at the straight 5 backup slot should be one of alex len, mason plumlee, thomas bryant or bismack biyumbo, all of whom should be reasonably priced vets available in free agency.

I've always liked Bryant. I'd love to add him.

 

[Mediocre Man]

For the keep Dame crowd


“If your best players aren’t defenders, it’s hard to create a good defense”

— Erik Spoelstra after Game 7

We will never win with Dame

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

For the keep Dame crowd


“If your best players aren’t defenders, it’s hard to create a good defense”

— Erik Spoelstra after Game 7

We will never win with Dame

It does set a tone for the rest of the team.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

For the keep Dame crowd


“If your best players aren’t defenders, it’s hard to create a good defense”

— Erik Spoelstra after Game 7

We will never win with Dame

Steph and Dirk lead teams to titles fine. Often title teams don't have a great defender at their shortest PG position, which is the most irrelevant position to a teams defense. Its much more critical at wings and front court positions.

Dame has played virtually his whole career with a short poor defensive SG. The Blazers main issue is they have had horrible defenders at other positions such as CJ Ant Melo Kanter. Or they've had defenders with horrible spacing in offense.

Put talented two way players all over the rotation and the team would be unlike any recent Blazers team. When Dame had Matthews at SG with his excellent defense, a roster of two way defenders, even with less than ideal Mo Williams defense and no bench, the teams defense was very good. Dame is a much better defender now than he was for those first few years, even if hes not great.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Steph and Dirk lead teams to titles fine. Often title teams don't have a great defender at their shortest PG position, which is the most irrelevant position to a teams defense. Its much more critical at wings and front court positions.

Dame has played virtually his whole career with a short poor defensive SG. The Blazers main issue is they have had horrible defenders at other positions such as CJ Ant Melo Kanter. Or they've had defenders with horrible spacing in offense.

Put talented two way players all over the rotation and the team would be unlike any recent Blazers team. When Dame had Matthews at SG with his excellent defense, a roster of two way defenders, even with less than ideal Mo Williams defense and no bench, the teams defense was very good. Dame is a much better defender now than he was for those first few years, even if hes not great.

I’ll just wait the 3-4 years and if I’m still alive I’ll give you the “I told you so”

Hoping the whole time you tell it to me after next season

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I’ll just wait the 3-4 years and if I’m still alive I’ll give you the “I told you so”

Hoping the whole time you tell it to me after next season

Well considering 97% of teams lose every season of course you are much more likely to be able to say I told you so. No matter the action the Blazers will most likely lose.

Would the Blazers be more likely to contend if their best player was an elite two way wing like Giannis/Butler/Tatum than Dame? Duh, of course. Problem is there's only a couple of these in the NBA and they're extremely difficult to get.

If the Blazers get a two way wing like Brown or Bridges, plus two way contributions from Sharpe, plus other role players that are great defenders can they build a contending team with Dame? I'd say yes it's possible.

Is that likely to happen? Probably not. But it's not an inherit proof that Dame is incapable of being a leader of a contending team. It just shows a ton of talent and yes two way players with defense are needed all over a roster to build a contender.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Well considering 97% of teams lose every season of course you are much more likely to be able to say I told you so. No matter the action the Blazers will most likely lose.

Would the Blazers be more likely to contend if their best player was an elite two way wing like Giannis/Butler/Tatum than Dame? Duh, of course. Problem is there's only a couple of these in the NBA and they're extremely difficult to get.

If the Blazers get a two way wing like Brown or Bridges, plus two way contributions from Sharpe, plus other role players that are great defenders can they build a contending team with Dame? I'd say yes it's possible.

Is that likely to happen? Probably not. But it's not an inherit proof that Dame is incapable of being a leader of a contending team. It just shows a ton of talent and yes two way players with defense are needed all over a roster to build a contender.

Dame is a fantastic leader.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

For the keep Dame crowd


“If your best players aren’t defenders, it’s hard to create a good defense”

— Erik Spoelstra after Game 7

We will never win with Dame

Thing is Dame is a pretty decent defender vs PG's and SG's. Just so happens he isn't big enough to guard SF's and PF's. and lacks a bunch of size vs Centers. Now he can create steals vs slower big men. Chauncey switching everything does not play well to Lillard. Notice Spo does not say "best player"? He said "Players" plural.
Blazers need good defenders around Lillard as Lillard needs to continue to hold his own on defense.

 

[STOMP]

If the Blazers get a two way wing like Brown or Bridges, plus two way contributions from Sharpe, plus other role players that are great defenders can they build a contending team with Dame? I'd say yes it's possible. Is that likely to happen? Probably not.

There are many really promising 2 way wing prospects available in the upcoming draft, the rub is that like Sharpe they'll all likely need at least a year acclimating to the league before they're effective. I would love to see Ausar lined up next to Shaedon terrorizing teams with their length and quickness for the next 10 years.

STOMP

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Thing is Dame is a pretty decent defender vs PG's and SG's. Just so happens he isn't big enough to guard SF's and PF's. and lacks a bunch of size vs Centers. Now he can create steals vs slower big men. Chauncey switching everything does not play well to Lillard. Notice Spo does not say "best player"? He said "Players" plural.
Blazers need good defenders around Lillard as Lillard needs to continue to hold his own on defense.

Spo did specifically mention Butler and Bam by name in these comments, it might not be in that portion of the direct quote, but when I saw his entire interview I remember him pointing them both specifically out.

 

[PCmor7]

For the keep Dame crowd


“If your best players aren’t defenders, it’s hard to create a good defense”

— Erik Spoelstra after Game 7

We will never win with Dame

I think the key is he's saying it's difficult. He's not saying it's impossible. We need to be a little careful about the hyperbole. There are a lot of ways to be a good team.

I think it's also worth noting that Spoelstra probably uses more zone than anyone.

Dame is a willing defender. He's actually a very good post defender for a guard. He's inexplicably limited at keeping the guys he guards on the perimeter from getting two feet into the paint and forcing his teammates to help. I'll get pushback on this, but I think that has something to do with some athletic limitations Dame has with lateral quickness.

Anyway, it's a challenge to be addressed, not a death sentence.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

There are many really promising 2 way wing prospects available in the upcoming draft, the rub is that like Sharpe they'll all likely need at least a year acclimating to the league before they're effective. I would love to see Ausar lined up next to Shaedon terrorizing teams with their length and quickness for the next 10 years.

STOMP

Yeah I'm excited for the Blazers getting one of these guys at the top of the draft. Your correct they might need a few years until their fully ready. But I don't think it'll be as long as many posters such as @wizenheimer often mention if the Blazers draft a great player right now. The star players normally show glimpses very early on, none of them are young high schoolers such as Kobe/Garnett/Jermaine used to be. A Blazers pick wouldn't be asked to be a top3 player on the team right away, just to be a contributor on both ends of the court. Kawhi won finals MVP in year 3, Tre Young lead the hawks to the ECF in year 3. Dwayne Wade as a rookie lead his team in scoring with 21ppg during the second round of the playoffs, then made the conference finals in year 2 and won a title as finals MVP in year 3. Tatum made the ECF as a rookie along with Brown leading the team in scoring.

I'd say normally we rarely see high draft picks with playoff success their first 5 years mostly because the teams at the top of the draft have little veteran talent and are rebuilding; not because great players need some super long time such as a decade to develop into playoff contrbutors.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Thing is Dame is a pretty decent defender vs PG's and SG's. Just so happens he isn't big enough to guard SF's and PF's. and lacks a bunch of size vs Centers.

I've seen precisely the opposite. He handles bigger players well, especially if they try to post him up. It's the quicker guards blowing past him and running him around and off screens that give him trouble.

 

[42N8Bounce]

For the keep Dame crowd

“If your best players aren’t defenders, it’s hard to create a good defense”

— Erik Spoelstra after Game 7

We will never win with Dame

“If your best players aren’t offensive, it’s hard to create a good offense.”
- 42N8Bounce

Dame should retire a Blazer

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Deron Williams in year 2 led the Jazz to the WCF - leading the team in scoring against the Spurs with 25.8ppg 7.8apg on 52%/47%/78% shooting.

Blake Griffin in year 2 led the Clippers to a series win leading the team in scoring with 19.1ppg

Donovan Mitchell as a rookie won a playoff series with the Jazz leading them in playoff scoring with 24.4ppg

Bam Adebayo in year 2 was second on the Heat in minutes with playoff stats of 17.8/10.3/4.4 getting to the ECF. In the prior seasons the Heat hadn't won a playoff series in 4 years.

So there are have been plenty of drafted players with impressive playoff success their first three seasons in the league. Also most of these examples are with a drafted player leading the team - whereas if the Blazers are trying to contend with Dame the young drafted player only needs to be a 4th/5th contributor in the lineup - similar to what Bridges did helping get Phoenix to the Finals.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I've seen precisely the opposite. He handles bigger players well, especially if they try to post him up. It's the quicker guards blowing past him and running him around and off screens that give him trouble.

That has been an issue for a lot of great players in this league....players much better than Dame. It is really tough to stay in front of elite quickness by yourself.
Does anyone remember watching Jordan (and the 72-10 Bulls) trying to guard Damon Stoudamire? Of course, Mighty Mouse could not guard MJ either, but nonetheless, lighting-quick PGs are probably the hardest players to defend .

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Spo did specifically mention Butler and Bam by name in these comments, it might not be in that portion of the direct quote, but when I saw his entire interview I remember him pointing them both specifically out.

No question If the Blazers can get great defense from their 2 guard and great defense from a big like Bam they would be better all around. Just saying Dame does not play "Bad" defense when he is not overmatched. Not many 6-2 players can guard a powerful 6-8 player effectively. Nobody guards great players well all the time. Great offensive players are just that. Great. Dame seems to know where to be and do his job on the defensive end. He's smart and he rebounds pretty well also getting almost 5 a game.
One interesting stat is his defense was better paired with Aminu and Harkless. I'm wondering if they can recreate that metric?

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I've seen precisely the opposite. He handles bigger players well, especially if they try to post him up. It's the quicker guards blowing past him and running him around and off screens that give him trouble.

I think that has to do with those players being Curry, Booker, Ja, ect. Those players blow past everyone at some point.

 

[Tince]

Deron Williams in year 2 led the Jazz to the WCF - leading the team in scoring against the Spurs with 25.8ppg 7.8apg on 52%/47%/78% shooting.

Blake Griffin in year 2 led the Clippers to a series win leading the team in scoring with 19.1ppg

Donovan Mitchell as a rookie won a playoff series with the Jazz leading them in playoff scoring with 24.4ppg

Bam Adebayo in year 2 was second on the Heat in minutes with playoff stats of 17.8/10.3/4.4 getting to the ECF. In the prior seasons the Heat hadn't won a playoff series in 4 years.

So there are have been plenty of drafted players with impressive playoff success their first three seasons in the league. Also most of these examples are with a drafted player leading the team - whereas if the Blazers are trying to contend with Dame the young drafted player only needs to be a 4th/5th contributor in the lineup - similar to what Bridges did helping get Phoenix to the Finals.

That's a pretty small list considering the time period you're covering. Pointing out the outliers doesn't prove much outside of the fact that it's unlikely, but not impossible.

 

[inconceivable]

 

[illmatic99]

Dame was at the PF at 6am this morning and then got another workout at that gym in Tigard all before 9 am. He posted it all on his IG.

This kinda work ethic is so easy to take for granted when guys throw out Dame trades left and right.

 

[Natebishop3]

Dame was at the PF at 6am this morning and then got another workout at that gym in Tigard all before 9 am. He posted it all on his IG.

This kinda work ethic is so easy to take for granted when guys throw out Dame trades left and right.

He's almost 33 man. The sands of time are running out. I love Dame but he isn't 26 anymore. Dame has an expiration date.

I would love to see him get us a ring. I really would. I just don't see how that's going to happen in the next 3-4 years while he's still very good.

 

[inconceivable]

He's almost 33 man. The sands of time are running out. I love Dame but he isn't 26 anymore. Dame has an expiration date.

I would love to see him get us a ring. I really would. I just don't see how that's going to happen in the next 3-4 years while he's still very good.

The Recipe:
- Sharpe realizes his potential sooner
- Cronin makes moves this summer worthy of executive of the year
- Ownership willing to pay tax
- Luck

 

[Natebishop3]

The Recipe:
- Sharpe realizes his potential sooner
- Cronin makes moves this summer worthy of executive of the year
- Ownership willing to pay tax
- Luck

This ownership is crap and I have yet to really see anything from Cronin that would lead me to believe that he's capable of pulling off the kind of trades that we would need to catapult us into contention.

 

[inconceivable]

This ownership is crap and I have yet to really see anything from Cronin that would lead me to believe that he's capable of pulling off the kind of trades that we would need to catapult us into contention.

Me neither but i give him the benefit of the doubt due to state of team when he took over

 

[Fairly-Hard]

This ownership is crap and I have yet to really see anything from Cronin that would lead me to believe that he's capable of pulling off the kind of trades that we would need to catapult us into contention.

Contention is two players away. Just got to get the right mix and that 4th ingredient is very important.

 

[TBpup]

For the keep Dame crowd


“If your best players aren’t defenders, it’s hard to create a good defense”

— Erik Spoelstra after Game 7

We will never win with Dame

 

[Natebishop3]

Me neither but i give him the benefit of the doubt due to state of team when he took over

Here's the thing though.... yes the team was mediocre, but Joe sent out all our contracts, so now we don't have hardly any money to use to match salaries. He put us in a situation where we HAVE to trade Simons if we want to bring in someone with a big contract. There was really no reason to trade Norm. That was arguably his worst move so far. Signing GP2 was stupid, and it hamstrung us, but at least we got some value out of the blunder. I have yet to see any value out of the Clippers trade.

Winslow? Can't stay healthy
Keon? He's going to be out of the league in a few years.
Bledsoe? Paying him to not play for us.

Meanwhile Norm put up 17 ppg on very efficient shooting in only 26 minutes per game for the Clips. He's on a very affordable contract. He's only 30. Trading him was flat out stupid. I would have loved to have his contract to offer Boston right now. He's exactly the kind of player that they would love to put with Tatum.

 

[TBpup]

What does Spo know other than he is considered by many to be a top 2 if not the best coach in the NBA.