Dame all but demanding vet roster (2 Viewers)

[SharpesTriumph]

Dame was at the PF at 6am this morning and then got another workout at that gym in Tigard all before 9 am. He posted it all on his IG.

This kinda work ethic is so easy to take for granted when guys throw out Dame trades left and right.

If Dame was 25 I'd keep him no matter what. His work ethic is great, his leadership is awesome, his dedication to Portland is top notch. I haven't heard any fans saying otherwise.

The problem is Dame is turning 33 and it seems extremely unlikely the Blazers can put a contender around him in the next few years. Seems very logical to consider going in a younger direction. Just for the due diligence I'd say Cronin needs to explore those scenarios, even if the Blazers ultimately continue trying to win with Dame now.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Here's the thing though.... yes the team was mediocre, but Joe sent out all our contracts, so now we don't have hardly any money to use to match salaries. He put us in a situation where we HAVE to trade Simons if we want to bring in someone with a big contract. There was really no reason to trade Norm. That was arguably his worst move so far. Signing GP2 was stupid, and it hamstrung us, but at least we got some value out of the blunder. I have yet to see any value out of the Clippers trade.

Winslow? Can't stay healthy
Keon? He's going to be out of the league in a few years.
Bledsoe? Paying him to not play for us.

Meanwhile Norm put up 17 ppg on very efficient shooting in only 26 minutes per game for the Clips. He's on a very affordable contract. He's only 30. Trading him was flat out stupid. I would have loved to have his contract to offer Boston right now. He's exactly the kind of player that they would love to put with Tatum.

Yeah not having tradeable contracts really hurts the Blazers chance to contend. They are forced to send out Ant or Nurk or both even if the other team just wants salary filler. When you don't have a 5 man rotation - much less the 7-8 needed to contend its a big hinderance to win now. The Blazers will only get the marginal upgrade from Ant or Nurk to the player that is brought in. So it needs to be well more than all star level players. If instead the Blazers could keep Ant/Nurk they wouldn't need such a high performance (and high cost) acquisition to win now.

There were so many posters claiming how Cronin doing those moves was giving the Blazers "flexibility" to improve the roster. It actually did the exact opposite. If the Blazers just sat on Norms deal they would have much more flexibility to improve the roster to build a winner this summer; even if you view Norm as a complete zero on the court.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

If Dame was 25 I'd keep him no matter what. His work ethic is great, his leadership is awesome, his dedication to Portland is top notch. I haven't heard any fans saying otherwise.

The problem is Dame is turning 33 and it seems extremely unlikely the Blazers can put a contender around him in the next few years. Seems very logical to consider going in a younger direction. Just for the due diligence I'd say Cronin needs to explore those scenarios, even if the Blazers ultimately continue trying to win with Dame now.

It does SEEM logical, but it isn't. Players are more likely to show loyalty to teams that show loyalty to them. Here are some of the things that are more likely to happen by keeping Dame:
Our own FAs for the next 10 years are more likely to re-sign with us (including Sharpe).
Other FAs are more likely to sign with us (Hometown + Dame was the reason Grant asked Detroit to send him here).
We stay relevant from both a winning perspective and a national media perspective.

Of course, there are other factors to consider (like Dame's outrageous salary), but these shouldn't be forgotten....

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Yeah not having tradeable contracts really hurts the Blazers chance to contend. They are forced to send out Ant or Nurk or both even if the other team just wants salary filler. When you don't have a 5 man rotation - much less the 7-8 needed to contend its a big hinderance to win now. The Blazers will only get the marginal upgrade from Ant or Nurk to the player that is brought in. So it needs to be well more than all star level players. If instead the Blazers could keep Ant/Nurk they wouldn't need such a high performance (and high cost) acquisition to win now.

There were so many posters claiming how Cronin doing those moves was giving the Blazers "flexibility" to improve the roster. It actually did the exact opposite. If the Blazers just sat on Norms deal they would have much more flexibility to improve the roster to build a winner this summer; even if you view Norm as a complete zero on the court.

Yeah but if they kept Norm they don't tank.

 

[TBpup]

@WesleyMatthews ... agreed. I don't see that 'flexibility' that was referred to. We do have some potential cap space, but it is a terrible FA class. Maybe an unbalanced trade, but what fits making us a contender?

 

[Natebishop3]

Other FAs are more likely to sign with us (Hometown + Dame was the reason Grant asked Detroit to send him here).

This has never been a thing, and until Grant signs on the dotted line we can't use him as an example either.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Meanwhile Norm put up 17 ppg on very efficient shooting in only 26 minutes per game for the Clips. He's on a very affordable contract. He's only 30. Trading him was flat out stupid. I would have loved to have his contract to offer Boston right now. He's exactly the kind of player that they would love to put with Tatum.

I wouldn't want him starting in Portland. So I can't see how he would start in Boston....unless you are talking about a 6th man role.
But even with Brown gone they still have White, Brogdan, and Smart who are also listed at 6'4".

 

[Natebishop3]

I wouldn't want him starting in Portland. So I can't see how he would start in Boston....unless you are talking about a 6th man role.
But even with Brown gone they still have White, Brogdan, and Smart who are also listed at 6'4".

I disagree that Norm couldn't have been a perfectly fine starting shooting guard. He was not a small forward, and it was stilly to play him at that position.

Isn't Brogdon and Smart point guards?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I disagree that Norm couldn't have been a perfectly fine starting shooting guard. He was not a small forward, and it was stilly to play him at that position.

Isn't Brogdon and Smart point guards?

I think Norm could have started last year at SG as could of Hart. But moving forward I think we need Sharpe in that spot.
As for Brogdon and Smart, I think that is Boston's problem.......they are not true PGs....but play the position.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Norm could have started last year at SG as could of Hart. But moving forward I think we need Sharpe in that spot.
As for Brogdon and Smart, I think that is Boston's problem.......they are not true PGs....but play the position.

Honestly, Norm's fit on our roster to me would have been irrelevant. He was an asset that we basically just heaped on the trash pile. His contract was/is reasonable, and he's a very solid player for the money. Is he a star? Not even close. He's just a very good role player.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Fact remains. If they keep Norm and even Nance they don’t get lottery picks last year or this year.

Seems like a lot of you were all wanting to tank.

 

[Natebishop3]

Fact remains. If they keep Norm and even Nance they don’t get lottery picks last year or this year.

Seems like a lot of you were all wanting to tank.

Really? You don't think those two players wouldn't have mysteriously come down with injuries just like everyone else?

Dame was shut down
Ant was shut down
Nurk was shut down
Grant was shut down.

Why wouldn't Norm or Nance be shut down?

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Really? You don't think those two players wouldn't have mysteriously come down with injuries just like everyone else?

Dame was shut down
Ant was shut down
Nurk was shut down
Grant was shut down.

Why wouldn't Norm or Nance be shut down?

This is purely subjective. So I’ll say from the beginning that it’s my opinion.
They would have won more games and the team would not have shut down.
Now last year? That one is tough to say?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Dame has been at these workouts with a smile on his face. Clearly, the "demands" have been overblown.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Dame has been at these workouts with a smile on his face. Clearly, the "demands" have been overblown.

I kind of wonder how he could not be excited to see another great talent grow on his team?
Sure everyone wants veteran help but having two lottery picks growing and making the team better has got to have some appeal.

 

[blazerkor]

Dame has been at these workouts with a smile on his face. Clearly, the "demands" have been overblown.

Or he knows what the team is being offered and realizes (at least from his perspective) that the demands will be met.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

It does SEEM logical, but it isn't. Players are more likely to show loyalty to teams that show loyalty to them. Here are some of the things that are more likely to happen by keeping Dame:
Our own FAs for the next 10 years are more likely to re-sign with us (including Sharpe).
Other FAs are more likely to sign with us (Hometown + Dame was the reason Grant asked Detroit to send him here).
We stay relevant from both a winning perspective and a national media perspective.

Of course, there are other factors to consider (like Dame's outrageous salary), but these shouldn't be forgotten....

I agree those are factors to consider. But I'd expect they are likely dwarfed by the impact of actual roster moves for players now and trades now.

I'm not set on trying to trade Dame, just saying fans shouldn't be upset other fans are thinking of that option. Its a very logical step for the Blazers to evaluate considering their situation.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

@WesleyMatthews ... agreed. I don't see that 'flexibility' that was referred to. We do have some potential cap space, but it is a terrible FA class. Maybe an unbalanced trade, but what fits making us a contender?

We haven't had cap space since 2016 and won't this summer.

We have a small trade exception from GP2 but thats it; and totally unrelated to any "flexiblity" gained from the Clippers trade.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Dame has been at these workouts with a smile on his face. Clearly, the "demands" have been overblown.

He stated his demands. It wasn’t hearsay

 

[PtldPlatypus]

He stated his demands. It wasn’t hearsay

The word "Demands" is an overstatement in and of itself. He's stated preferences--that's it.

 

[twobullz]

He stated his demands. It wasn’t hearsay

Was his demand about starters? or bench? I wonder if his biggest frustration is the lack of veteran help off the bench, well that is one of my biggest frustrations, so why not Dame's. Our bench is all young unproven guys, gets some veteran help there.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

The word "Demands" is an overstatement in and of itself. He's stated preferences--that's it.

Yeah the "Demands" part seems like a bit of a stretch. I would be more inclined to go with "Desire".
"He stated what he would desire (or maybe prefer). That is not hearsay."

 

[tykendo]

Dame has been at these workouts with a smile on his face. Clearly, the "demands" have been overblown.

Dame is passionate about the game, his team, and winning. All he wants is a chance. He knows what it's like to chase the dream . Dame can see through the BS. If one of these guys they've worked out can help the team succeed now, and later, i'm sure he would be onboard. At the same time , this team needs veteran talent as well. Maybe the Blazers will use the pick , because they deem the pick worthy, and talented enough now to contribute at a high level. Like Durant, Wade, LeBron, and even himself were. Then it's up to Joe & his staff to add a DeMar DeRozan or OG Anunoby using Ant / #23 or other future pick to further strengthen the team. It's a process. It's just time to speed it up.

 

[Hoopguru]

Yeah the "Demands" part seems like a bit of a stretch. I would be more inclined to go with "Desire".
"He stated what he would desire (or maybe prefer). That is not hearsay."

He said it's not the path he's wanting to go down? But that was before the lottery.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I agree those are factors to consider. But I'd expect they are likely dwarfed by the impact of actual roster moves for players now and trades now.

I'm not set on trying to trade Dame, just saying fans shouldn't be upset other fans are thinking of that option. Its a very logical step for the Blazers to evaluate considering their situation.

Absolutely. Though my reply was to your post, it was really meant as a reminder to the community that there are other positives to keeping Dame.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

He stated his demands. It wasn’t hearsay

He has not stated any such demands since finding out we had a top 3 pick, which is also not hearsay.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

He has not stated any such demands since finding out we had a top 3 pick, which is also not hearsay.

He has attended draft workouts. If he was 100% pushing for the Blazers to trade the pick no matter what it wouldn't make sense for him to watch these.

 

[Tince]

This thread title is so dramatic.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Plan A: Make the BIG move with a perceived overpay to maximize contending with a top 75 player of all time … which is what most Blazer fans wanted for YEARS under NeO. Win now by getting a serious #2 (or 1B) and Grant as #3.

Plan B: Take the swings, strike out, trade Dame, build around a youngish veteran, Sharpe, 3, and maybe Ant. Sign and trade Grant. Prepare to suck … not be a threat for 3-4 years … (depending on the main player returned for Dame — Jaylen Brown … )

Both are legit options, IMHO. Hope, we don’t get to some half-@$$ Plan C that fidgets around the edges and tries to accomplish both timelines.

 

[Phatguysrule]

For the keep Dame crowd


“If your best players aren’t defenders, it’s hard to create a good defense”

— Erik Spoelstra after Game 7

We will never win with Dame

Almost certainly. Of course, we almost certainly wouldn't have won without him either...