Dame in Milwaukee thread (3 Viewers)

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PtldPlatypus said:
The problem here is the assumption that Dame taking less would have allowed "additional salary flexibility". Given the constraints of the rest of the roster, that assumption is dubious at best.
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yeah...that's all I'm saying in about 18,000 words: that Dame's contract decisions were not constraints on Blazer management building a contender. Those constraints were applied by the imagination, judgement, and posture of management
 
PtldPlatypus said:
The problem here is the assumption that Dame taking less would have allowed "additional salary flexibility". Given the constraints of the rest of the roster, that assumption is dubious at best.
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I'm not sure how this is a debate. Remember, less salary on the books doesn't only mean there will be cap space (sometimes there won't be), but it also means less tax implications. There have been multiple transactions made in Dame's career that appeared to get Portland below one of those lines and/or exemptions not used because the team was right up against one of those lines.

Do I think had Dame taken $20m/year vs $35m/year that Portland was a lock to win championships? Aboslutely not. Would $15m/year make a difference in how the front office and ownership works? I believe that's a near certainty. Would've Olshey/Cronin maximized those $15m a year? Their track record would say no.
 
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Tince said:
Do I think had Dame taken $20m/year vs $35m/year that Portland was a lock to win championships? Aboslutely not. Would $15m/year make a difference in how the front office and ownership works? I believe that's a near certainty. Would've Olshey/Cronin maximized those $15m a year? Their track record would say no.
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Dame made 235M in 11 years in Portland. That's 21.4M/year, not 35M. He made about 31.7M/year after his rookie scale. He only had 2 seasons of 35M/year or more salary. You might want to base your argument about Dame's hypothetical salary sacrifice as a percentage of salary or a percentage pay-cut. After his rookie scale, he earned 222M in 7 seasons in Portland. If he would have taken a 10% pay-cut, which is stretching the boundary of realistic, a lot IMO, the savings wouldn't have been 15M/year, it would have been 3.1M/year. Hard to see any improvement that would have made a difference with 3.1M/year in leverage

your 35M--->20M is a 43% pay-cut, and that's an absurd way to frame a hypothetical

setting aside rookie scales, it wasn't the 32M/year Portland paid Dame that was the obstacle to contention, it was the 27M/year they paid CJ
 
wizenheimer said:
Dame made 235M in 11 years in Portland. That's 21.4M/year, not 35M. He made about 31.7M/year after his rookie scale. He only had 2 seasons of 35M/year or more salary. You might want to base your argument about Dame's hypothetical salary sacrifice as a percentage of salary or a percentage pay-cut. After his rookie scale, he earned 222M in 7 seasons in Portland. If he would have taken a 10% pay-cut, which is stretching the boundary of realistic, a lot IMO, the savings wouldn't have been 15M/year, it would have been 3.1M/year. Hard to see any improvement that would have made a difference with 3.1M/year in leverage

your 35M--->20M is a 43% pay-cut, and that's an absurd way to frame a hypothetical

setting aside rookie scales, it wasn't the 32M/year Portland paid Dame that was the obstacle to contention, it was the 27M/year they paid CJ
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You're getting real hung up in the exact numbers which has nothing to do with my original point/statement. I put out example contract amounts to illustrate my point. I could've picked $5m/year as an example too, but I figured that would've caused more outrage and diverted your response away from my main point. We're already pretty far away from it now.
 
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Tince said:
You're getting real hung up in the exact numbers which has nothing to do with my original point/statement. I put out example contract amounts to illustrate my point. I could've picked $5m/year as an example too, but I figured that would've caused more outrage and diverted your response away from my main point. We're already pretty far away from it now.
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actually, I'm hung up on how this discussion started:

upload_2024-3-1_17-19-41.png

in the real world of NBA talent, rosters, and salaries, it was a weird hole to start digging and you haven't put the shovel down yet

And yes, I'll focus on 'exact' numbers when I'm testing someone's hypothetical. I mean, hell, if Dame would have played for free imagine how easy it would have been to build a contender! :ghoti:
 
wizenheimer said:
actually, I'm hung up on how this discussion started:

View attachment 63450

in the real world of NBA talent, rosters, and salaries, it was a weird hole to start digging and you haven't put the shovel down yet

And yes, I'll focus on 'exact' numbers when I'm testing someone's hypothetical. I mean, hell, if Dame would have played for free imagine how easy it would have been to build a contender! :ghoti:
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I still believe if Portland has more salary flexibility it would've made their path to being a contender easier. Still unsure how that's a crazy statement.

I also agree, if Dame played for the minimum, it would've made it easier on the Blazers. Though apparently some think it wouldn't make a difference. Which is why I said "For me, both parties (Dame and the organization) did things that increased the difficulty for Dame and the Blazers to have a championship contender in Portland. "
 
Tince said:
I still believe if Portland has more salary flexibility it would've made their path to being a contender easier. Still unsure how that's a crazy statement. "
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if that was the statement you made, it wouldn't have been crazy. But you welded it to Dame taking a massive pay-cut, and because he didn't, he bore responsibility for Portland failing...that was the crazy part
 
wizenheimer said:
if that was the statement you made, it wouldn't have been crazy. But you welded it to Dame taking a massive pay-cut, and because he didn't, he bore responsibility for Portland failing...that was the crazy part
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Let's take Dame's name out of it since that can trigger emotional feelings for some...

Had <insert player> taken a pay cut, <insert front office> would've had an increased asset pool to put a better supporting cast around <insert player>. Seems fairly elementary to me.
 
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Tince said:
Let's take Dame's name out of it since that can trigger emotional feelings for some...

Had <insert player> taken a pay cut, <insert front office> would've had an increased asset pool to put a better supporting cast around <insert player>. Seems fairly elementary to me.
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that's fine. I don't think the 32M/year Portland paid Dame was an obstacle to contending; the 26M/year to CJ was
 
wizenheimer said:
that's fine. I don't think the 32M/year Portland paid Dame was an obstacle to contending; the 26M/year to CJ was
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ya'll are talking contracts about a team that gave Meyers Leonard 4yr 41m
{.... mic drop}
 
RR7 said:
If offered a quality beer, one would give you 1000 words and hyperlinks to explain why it was an overrated beer.
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As opposed to those folks who would say the beer isn't good because the manager has his staff pour it the same way every night, doesn't mix things up, and fails to have more people touch the beer before giving it to the customer.

Such a predictable pour, their opponents take advantage of it each and every night. Need more effort. Can't be standing around.
 
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