Dame mad about Barton trade for years

[barfo]

So you are saying there's a chance...

barfo

 

[e_blazer]

Gotta admit that the Clippers being on the list is fun. Makes me giggle to think of Paul George being traded to Minnie for Giannis.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Gotta admit that the Clippers being on the list is fun. Makes me giggle to think of Paul George being traded to Minnie for Giannis.

Minniewaukee?

 

[kjironman1]

I think Dame has decided that he would rather lose with his friends than win with better players.

I think he wants to win with his friends.

 

[e_blazer]

Minniewaukee?

Don't pick on me. I’m old.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

I think Dame has decided that he would rather lose with his friends than win with better players.

Close. Dame has decided he would rather WIN with his friends than win because of an overhaul. I’m similar. I wouldn’t trade Dame/CJ for Kawhi/PG13, for instance. I’d rather win with Dame than win with Kawhi. It’s not just about the uniforms for me.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

well we had reporting that when PG13 was available, Olshey was 'engaged' in the trade discussions but holding CJ untouchable in those trade talks:

“All three of their first-round picks along with Pritchard's choice of any player off the current roster other than their Big-3.”

https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/7/...l-george-trail-blazers-offer-2017-draft-picks

pretty laughable in 2017 to be calling Dame/CJ/Nurkic a "big 3" Lebron, DWade, & Bosh were a big 3. Duncan, Manu, and Parker were a big 3. Magic, Kareem, and Worthy were a big 3. Bird, McHale, and Parish were a big 3. But Dame-CJ-Nurk?....c'mon

so then, if Olshey was truly talking trade, it had to be something like Evan Turner + Meyers + three non-lottery firsts. Or Meyers + Harkless + Vonleh + those three 1sts. So yeah, it wasn't a serious offer. Jason Quick had his head up his ass for saying the Blazer offer was better than OKC's offer

CJ and Nurk would maybe be All Stars on separate teams in the East. If you then brought all 3 players together, they’d be a Big 3. It’s all context.

 

[wizenheimer]

CJ and Nurk would maybe be All Stars on separate teams in the East. If you then brought all 3 players together, they’d be a Big 3. It’s all context.

c'mon now. That's a stretch that breaks before it gets very far thru the exercise. That's not context, that's homeristic fantasy

Khris Middleton
Kyle Lowry
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Kemba Walker
Malcolm Brogdon
Jimmy Butler
Ben Simmons
Kyrie Irving
Bradley Beal
Trae Young

Eric Bledsoe
Duncan Robinson
Devonte Graham
Zach Lavine
Colin Sexton

all CJ has to do is beat out 7 of those guys on the first list (and I count 8-9 who are almost certainly better) while holding off the 5 guys in the 2nd group. That's pretty damn unlikely. The perpetual assumption around here that CJ would definitely be an all-star in the east never withstands scrutiny

as for Nurkic, he'd be competing with Embiid, Adebayo, Vucevic, Sabonis, and Drummond. Might be an easier path than CJ has, but still a really tall order

***********************************************

but besides that, I gave examples of past real big three's:

Lebron
DWade
Bosh
Duncan
Manu
Tony Parker
Magic
Kareem
Worthy
Bird
McHale
Parish

Dame

I think every player above is in the HOF or will be in the HOF. Those are big-3 candidates

but Nurkic & CJ? No

Portland doesn't have a big-3 with their three guys any more that Denver has a big 3 with Jokic, Murray, & Harris; or Utah with Mitchell, Gobert, and Bogdonovic. Blazers even have big-2 problems competing with Kawhi & PG13 or Lebron and AD or Harden & Westbrook or Doncic and Porzingis

 

[blazerkor]

CJ and Nurk would maybe be All Stars on separate teams in the East. If you then brought all 3 players together, they’d be a Big 3. It’s all context.

Except CJ and Dame are the opposite of being complimentary players. Nurk fits next to either of them but our back court does not fit together. Dame and CJ are like if Harry Potter and Tom Riddle were friends... it still comes down to the fact that neither can live while the other survives.

 

[blazerkor]

c'mon now. That's a stretch that breaks before it gets very far thru the exercise. That's not context, that's homeristic fantasy

Khris Middleton
Kyle Lowry
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Kemba Walker
Malcolm Brogdon
Jimmy Butler
Ben Simmons
Kyrie Irving
Bradley Beal
Trae Young

Eric Bledsoe
Duncan Robinson
Devonte Graham
Zach Lavine
Colin Sexton

all CJ has to do is beat out 7 of those guys on the first list (and I count 8-9 who are almost certainly better) while holding off the 5 guys in the 2nd group. That's pretty damn unlikely. The perpetual assumption around here that CJ would definitely be an all-star in the east never withstands scrutiny

as for Nurkic, he'd be competing with Embiid, Adebayo, Vucevic, Sabonis, and Drummond. Might be an easier path than CJ has, but still a really tall order

***********************************************

but besides that, I gave examples of past real big three's:

Lebron
DWade
Bosh
Duncan
Manu
Tony Parker
Magic
Kareem
Worthy
Bird
McHale
Parish

Dame

I think every player above is in the HOF or will be in the HOF. Those are big-3 candidates

but Nurkic & CJ? No

Portland doesn't have a big-3 with their three guys any more that Denver has a big 3 with Jokic, Murray, & Harris; or Utah with Mitchell, Gobert, and Bogdonovic. Blazers even have big-2 problems competing with Kawhi & PG13 or Lebron and AD or Harden & Westbrook or Doncic and Porzingis

I was totally with you until you put Bosh in the Hall of Fame. I don't think so. He got turned down this year in his first year of eligibility and unlike the baseball hall of fame, it's not very common for guys to be second or third ballot hall of famers or beyond in the NBA because there is always the next class of great players waiting next year. He might end up in there just because he was an eleven time all-star but he shouldn't have been an all-star that many times... seriously his numbers don't hold up and those Heat teams were more like a big 2 1/2.

 

[wizenheimer]

I was totally with you until you put Bosh in the Hall of Fame. I don't think so. He got turned down this year in his first year of eligibility and unlike the baseball hall of fame, it's not very common for guys to be second or third ballot hall of famers or beyond in the NBA because there is always the next class of great players waiting next year. He might end up in there just because he was an eleven time all-star but he shouldn't have been an all-star that many times... seriously his numbers don't hold up and those Heat teams were more like a big 2 1/2.

that could be, and I didn't even know he was eligible for induction yet

maybe the more fundamental point is that generally, championship teams have two or three elite talents, not one like Portland. And when exceptions occur, those cases see teams loaded with two-way players and one elite talent. Portland has one elite talent, but they don't have any other championship components

edit: on 2nd thought, maybe the championship formula is more specific....teams need elite talent on the wing. Off the top of my head, the Lakers had it with Kobe; Celtics had it with Pierce and Allen; Spurs had it with Manu; Heat had it with Lebron and DWade. Warriors had it with Durant and Klay and Green; Toronto had it with Kawhi and Siakam. Lakers have it with Lebron, and AD plays like a wing most of the time, kind of like Dirk did when the Mavs won the title

 

[riverman]

that could be, and I didn't even know he was eligible for induction yet

maybe the more fundamental point is that generally, championship teams have two or three elite talents, not one like Portland. And when exceptions occur, those cases see teams loaded with two-way players and one elite talent. Portland has one elite talent, but they don't have any other championship components

edit: on 2nd thought, maybe the championship formula is more specific....teams need elite talent on the wing. Off the top of my head, the Lakers had it with Kobe; Celtics had it with Pierce and Allen; Spurs had it with Manu; Heat had it with Lebron and DWade. Warriors had it with Durant and Klay and Green; Toronto had it with Kawhi and Siakam. Lakers have it with Lebron, and AD plays like a wing most of the time, kind of like Dirk did when the Mavs won the title

One of the exceptions to your observation would be the Larry Brown Pistons...really not one elite star on that team and an undersized center but they did have two way players and chemistry...the Chauncey, Sheed Hamilton Prince Wallsce and 6 man Hunter were a thing of beauty to watch...those Pistons are the model for the Blazers to succeed

 

[blazerkor]

One of the exceptions to your observation would be the Larry Brown Pistons...really not one elite star on that team and an undersized center but they did have two way players and chemistry...the Chauncey, Sheed Hamilton Prince Wallsce and 6 man Hunter were a thing of beauty to watch...those Pistons are the model for the Blazers to succeed

Yeah, I don't know how you get that kind of collection of talent though Chauncey, Prince and Wallace were all all-defensive team machines and Sheed probably should have been all defense at least once in his career. Chauncey and Sheed were two way beasts. Rip was an absolute bucket getter and could handle himself defensively. Ben Wallace might be the greatest one dimensional defender in the history of basketball. The guy owned the paint, owned the paint and owned the paint. I mean Hakeem, Wilt, Bill Russell and Dikembe all owned the paint as well but they had quite a few more facets to their games respectively. Hunter was also nice on both ends of the court. They had a pretty deep bench too with Corliss Williamson, Okur, Bobby Sura, a young Mike James and two contributing old heads in Hubert Davis and Elden Campbell. That's a deep bench and when you add Melo to the mix... oh wait... that's right, Darko not Melo. With that exception that team was expertly built. We may never see a team again that is that well rounded, with that kind of bench and in the post Jordan era there will likely never be another team that dominant defensively.

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah, I don't know how you get that kind of collection of talent though Chauncey, Prince and Wallace were all all-defensive team machines and Sheed probably should have been all defense at least once in his career. Chauncey and Sheed were two way beasts. Rip was an absolute bucket getter and could handle himself defensively. Ben Wallace might be the greatest one dimensional defender in the history of basketball. The guy owned the paint, owned the paint and owned the paint. I mean Hakeem, Wilt, Bill Russell and Dikembe all owned the paint as well but they had quite a few more facets to their games respectively. Hunter was also nice on both ends of the court. They had a pretty deep bench too with Corliss Williamson, Okur, Bobby Sura, a young Mike James and two contributing old heads in Hubert Davis and Elden Campbell. That's a deep bench and when you add Melo to the mix... oh wait... that's right, Darko not Melo. With that exception that team was expertly built. We may never see a team again that is that well rounded, with that kind of bench and in the post Jordan era there will likely never be another team that dominant defensively.

well stated

and that loops right back around to how far away the Blazers are from contention right now. Hint: a long ways. Portland is simply lacking in high level, 2-way talent on the wing. And in today's NBA, wings are SG's, SF's, and PF's. It doesn't matter who the Blazers are starting at the forward positions, Ariza/Collins; Trent/Ariza; Trent/Melo; Ariza/Melo....that's going to be a significant mismatch disadvantage against the elite wings that comprise elite teams...

and the elephant in that room of reality is CJ. Elite wings can play both ends of the floor at the 3 wing positions. CJ plays one end of the floor at only one of the wing positions, and he's a damn long ways from being elite on that end of the floor. Yet, he dominates the ball, Blazer possessions, and the salary cap like he's elite talent; all-NBA. Other than management, and possibly Blazer coaching, that's the biggest issue locking Portland on the treadmill they are pretty obviously on

 

[RoseCityRebel]

well stated

and that loops right back around to how far away the Blazers are from contention right now. Hint: a long ways. Portland is simply lacking in high level, 2-way talent on the wing. And in today's NBA, wings are SG's, SF's, and PF's. It doesn't matter who the Blazers are starting at the forward positions, Ariza/Collins; Trent/Ariza; Trent/Melo; Ariza/Melo....that's going to be a significant mismatch disadvantage against the elite wings that comprise elite teams...

and the elephant in that room of reality is CJ. Elite wings can play both ends of the floor at the 3 wing positions. CJ plays one end of the floor at only one of the wing positions, and he's a damn long ways from being elite on that end of the floor. Yet, he dominates the ball, Blazer possessions, and the salary cap like he's elite talent; all-NBA. Other than management, and possibly Blazer coaching, that's the biggest issue locking Portland on the treadmill they are pretty obviously on

Rodney Hood was a solid fit at SF before getting hurt. Really looking forward to him getting some run with Nurkic/Collins/Dame/CJ as a unit next season.

 

[riverman]

Rodney Hood was a solid fit at SF before getting hurt. Really looking forward to him getting some run with Nurkic/Collins/Dame/CJ as a unit next season.

I think Rodney will be a career Blazer now...retire here..great great piece to put next to Dame..we really missed him last season

 

[damianlillard]

I think Rodney will be a career Blazer now...retire here..great great piece to put next to Dame..we really missed him last season

Rodney hood was Trent before Trent emerged. Meaning that I really thought Hood should’ve been a starter at SG so we could trade CJ for a stud SF. Cause with Hood at SG and whatever SF we could’ve have some real nice length with Dame, Hood, SF, Collins, and Whiteside starting this year. With that being said Hood is and should be a blazers for the rest of his career. If he want to coach then he can still stay lol

 

[B-Roy]

Rodney hood was Trent before Trent emerged. Meaning that I really thought Hood should’ve been a starter at SG so we could trade CJ for a stud SF. Cause with Hood at SG and whatever SF we could’ve have some real nice length with Dame, Hood, SF, Collins, and Whiteside starting this year. With that being said Hood is and should be a blazers for the rest of his career. If he want to coach then he can still stay lol

Hood has never, ever in his career shown the same level of defense that Trent showed last season. He's not a 3&D player, he's simply a 3.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

Hood has never, ever in his career shown the same level of defense that Trent showed last season. He's not a 3&D player, he's simply a 3.

Trent is too small to guard elite wings. Hood is a SF. Why would you want him at SG? Curious, because that puts all of the ball-handling on Dame on the starting unit. Trent was one of the worst defensive players on the floor in the Lakers series according to advanced metrics.

Also, Hood was shooting 49% from three this season before he snapped the Achilles.

 

[B-Roy]

Trent is too small to guard elite wings. Hood is a SF. Why would you want him at SG? Curious, because that puts all of the ball-handling on Dame on the starting unit. Trent was one of the worst defensive players on the floor in the Lakers series according to advanced metrics.

Also, Hood was shooting 49% from three this season before he snapped the Achilles.

I was referring to Trent's ability to be a 3&D player. Advanced defensive metrics are not very accurate, especially when the entire team is getting creamed on that side of the floor. Most teams don't have a LeBron, and I'd be confident that Trent can guard most wings in the league, Hood would have done just as bad if not worse against him.

Hood has never, ever shown the type of defensive ability as Trent did in those last 8 games. He regularly gets screened out on pick and rolls, does not move his feet the same way as Trent to stay in front of guys, and doesn't have the same level of defensive instincts that Trent does. Not to mention he's coming off a major injury that is known to hamper lateral quickness.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Re: CJ an all-star in the East: we just don't know. Compare the numbers he puts up when Dame is out with Eastern All-Star guards