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Ranger71

Ranger71

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One name who could be a nice rental upgrade is Berglund. Maybe send a 2nd, Lindberg and another player. Hayes, Stepan, Zib and Berglund would be the best C depth in the league. With Nieves still around I think Lindberg becomes more expendable, plus I don't think he's been as productive as hoped.
 
No. Lindberg is fine as the 4th line center. I would say if they lose one guy to the expansion draft it will be either Raanta, Lindberg, Klein or Fast. I'm guessing Raanta. Lindberg is cheap.
 
No way they should give up on Lindberg and/or Fast. Keep playing them.... eventually they will hit the twine.
Why break up a very good 4th line? Besides, who checks better than these two guys?
 
I saw Berglund signed a 3y extension today anyways.
 
What do you guys think of a straight up stepan - shatty swap with st louis throwing in draft pick cause step is signed already
 
Insanity. That's what I think. The whole world knows Shattenkirk is signing with NY next season. Stepan if anything should be dealt for picks and prospects, an NHL ready, 3rd line center who is affordable and can win over 50% of his draws.
 
kreidertime said:
The whole world knows Shattenkirk is signing with NY next season.
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Elliot Friedman was on Sportsnet Radio yesterday. Said Blues/Tampa had a deal worked out around Tyler Johnson for Shattenkirk, but Tampa pulled out when Shatty refused to agree to a 7 yr/6m extension. Friedman's sources say it isn't money, but that he wants to sign in either New York or Boston. Other sources I've heard say he is 100% coming back to the northeast. Friedman also said STL had a deal worked out earlier this season for him with EDM but Shattenkirk said he would never sign there, and that deal fell through as well.

The trade deadline is on Wednesday. Last year the Blues held on to Backes and Troy Brouwer at the trade deadline and lost them both for nothing in FA. They have no goaltending at all. They are not going anywhere this year and it sounds like the front office is souring on Shattenkirk quickly (hard to blame them). I think Shattenkirk is going to move by next week. If STL starts getting desperate we should swoop in with that extra second we got from OTT and prospects, maybe include a goalie prospect not named Igor since STL has none. Even see if any of our depth forwards will get it done.

I still 100% get Shatty for this year if the price isn't a first. This team is poised for a run if we can reinforce the back end. With the way Hank is playing we can still go for it without trading firsts. Plus, if we get him, we can then negotiate with him before he hits FA and teams like Boston get in his ear thus driving the price up.


kreidertime said:
Stepan if anything should be dealt for picks and prospects, an NHL ready, 3rd line center who is affordable and can win over 50% of his draws.
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As of about a week ago Stepan was in the top 10 for points by a C over the past two seasons. That's not a guy you trade because he isnt good at draws. I get that he plays uninspiring hockey sometimes, and isnt particularly great at any one thing, but he is solid at almost everything (other than faceoffs) and is an important piece. He is the guy in the middle when the game is on the line and does a damn good job there. And don't forget, he's still only 26 years old (hard to believe given the unfortunate hair situation). Just now entering his prime. I dont give up on him.

I dont move any forwards this year. I try damn hard to get Shattenkirk. If not, maybe we settle for some alternative R-D depth. But this top 9 forward core should stay.
 
FWIW i did see this morning from one of the 'insiders' that we have an offer of Gropp, one of the 18' 2nds and Clendening for him. If true that's not all that bad. Definately wouldn't give up a 1st.
 
Ranger71 said:
FWIW i did see this morning from one of the 'insiders' that we have an offer of Gropp, one of the 18' 2nds and Clendening for him. If true that's not all that bad. Definately wouldn't give up a 1st.
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Nice. Do you remember who had this? As much as I like Gropp you do that trade every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Clendening is a good guy but he stinks and is getting passed around the league like a cheap hooker. The issue is that Shatty doesnt have a NTC. Eventually the offers will turn from extension offers (i.e. the Tyler Johnson trade) to rental offers like ours and the bidding will begin. Not sure this package wins the sweepstakes.
 
There is no doubt Shatty gets moved by Wednesday. Last year the Blues were a top team poised for a shot at a long run, so they held and then made the WCF. This year no shot they hold given their position, and the fact that cannot lose another player for nothing. Shatty gets moved 100000000% by the DL. He is the # 1 player in terms of lock to get moved, unless there are simply no offers, which I cannot see.

I also look for Detroit to be in big sell mode, and Smith could be in play for us if the Shatty deal is too rich. Detroit will sell players by the DL.

As for what we'd offer for Shatty, I think the deal you laid out 71 is the range I'd go for. I would rather not deal Gropp, but someone like that and a 2nd would be my range.

I wouldn't deal any forward depth, unless we are talking about Pirri/Puempel level. Our forward depth will be HUGE during the playoffs and that is something we should hold on for sure.

If we add a solid RD, Smith is a L shot who can play RD and has very good possession #'s for the Wings, we are a legit threat. And if we add Shatty without dealing a forward we have a legit shot at a long run, and then the chips will fall where they may.

This weekend will be interesting. You never root for an L, but I would be perfectly fine if CBJ swept the weekend (at Isles and NYR) and we won tonight and lost a tough one to CBJ tomorrow night. The Met team that ends up in the Atlantic bracket will be an ECF fav IMO.
 
For the record Prod, if we got Shatty it wouldn't be a true rental IMO. I just don't see him coming here, his favorite team/where he always wanted to play, and then bolting in July for a little more money. We would have a good offer for him...in the 5's/6 mill per +/-, and if he was dealt here I personally wouldn't view it as a rental. He'd resign here I believe.

But I do agree the price could go up as teams say I don't care about next year, and we're all in now, so deal for him and try to win the SC, and if he walks in July so be it.

I'd also add that while Shatty is good, he is not a top pair guy, and many think he is just okay at even strength, more of a PP specialist. A better R shot version of Yandle IMO, but not a stud top pair dman. A 2nd pair dman in a perfect world I believe. So he isn't a savior I don't think.
 
RangersFan said:
or the record Prod, if we got Shatty it wouldn't be a true rental IMO. I just don't see him coming here, his favorite team/where he always wanted to play, and then bolting in July for a little more money. We would have a good offer for him...in the 5's/6 mill per +/-, and if he was dealt here I personally wouldn't view it as a rental. He'd resign here I believe.
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No you're right, I apologize if I was unclear. I meant the previous market for him was based on a long term extension signed pre-FA, which made the price very rich (see the Tyler Johnson rumors). Once the market adjusts to rental offers, we have a much better shot at getting him via trade as we didnt want to pay the higher extension market price (it would have cost a Miller, etc.). Rangers are in a stronger position as we have great shot to get him in FA anyway. So I'm not saying I view the trade as a rental, I'm saying we jump in when the market at large is viewing it as a rental. Perfect world for us, as we then keep him off the market and hopefully get him for cheaper than we would bidding against Boston.

As for the player he is, he is definitely better defensively than Yandle (who I dont think was as bad as people made him out to be but we've been down that road before). He also has a much better shot, is a little more physical, has better positioning and gap control and, importantly, a righty. He may not be as gifted a passer and puck handler as Yandle, but few are. And that is not to say he isn't good at those things, because he'll be the best we have at it the second he puts a jersey on (if he puts it on...don't want to jinx it).

EDIT: and you're right...he isn't your ideal #1 right defenseman. He isnt a shutdown guy. But he's damn sure better than anyone else we're trotting out on the right side right now, and I dont think we'll find better in FA either.
 
One other comment, yes we have some good youth upfront, and we should NOT deal a 1st, but this is still a now team with a 34 year old goalie.

We need to add a dman, even if it is a Smith type. We don't need to make this huge splash with a Shatty type if the price is too high, no way, but we do need to add a dman better than Clendening. Adding a Smith type would be a good fit at a cheaper price. Helps us now on D, and we do not deal a 1st, or even a 2nd for a guy like Smith. That is a smart move.

That D core, while not great, would be solid with Smith added combined with our forward depth.
 
I get your point and agree Prod. The price drops when you trade him as a true rental with no extension, and to me that gives us even a bigger edge because we can pay for him trade wise as a rental, BUT in reality we know if we get him he will NOT be a rental. Perfect world for us I believe.

As for the player he is, I believe he is a better player than Yandle. Better on D as you said, and a better shot. Good passer as well, not Yandle level, but still good and aware. Simply a better player, and raises another level as a R shot as you said. He is a very good 2nd pair RD, who can QB a PP. That's how I would classify him. A 10 to Yandle's 8 or 8.5 if I was rating them against each other. A better all around dman.

Worth a deal, but not worth us breaking the bank or dealing a 1st, double so when we can/would sign him this summer, unless he gets dealt to Boston now, which would give them an edge.
 
I found it under InsiderIntel on Twitter. Seems like someone who has some connection to front office stuff. If we get him on our terms great, if not then grab a lesser guy like Smith or Franson etc.
 
This team isn't winning anything this season likely with the flaws on offense and defense and Shatty coming here won't make the difference. The reason you need to move stepan is his $6.5M cap hit and hit NMC. Too much money for him, especially with a NMC. They can get Shatty for money in the offseason. They need a forward like Kreider who isn't afraid to go the middle of the ice and get an ugly goal. Right now they have a bunch of forwards who always stay to the outside and won't crash the net.
 
Kreider himself needs to start doing more of that again.
 
Ranger71 said:
Kreider himself needs to start doing more of that again.
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Indeed he does. This team is so frustrating to watch. They have a majority of the pieces to do really well, but they can't all seem to get it together at the same time. They all seem to take turns playing with their heads up their asses lol. If they could ever all get hot at the same time, they could make a deep run.
 
^^^^^If there one time they should all get it together, let it be playoff time!
Like Raanta said......hockey is a crazy game......
anything can happen....good and bad. That's reassuring. LOL
 
I'm not convinced they could make a deep run. Not with Stepan being useless most of the time. If they could find a way to dump him for Duchene, that would be a huge upgrade simply because Duchene fits the style of this team better.
 
I'm not convinced either. In the NHL playoffs you really never know. In the NBA you know the top teams win in round 1...period. In the NHL that is no lock. Double so when you factor in the ridiculous playoff seeding system the NHL uses where 4 of the top 6 teams in the whole NHL will be in the same half of the East bracket, 2 will play in round 1.

The Rangers could very easily play the Pens in round 1 again. That is why I wouldn't mind at all if the BJ's beat the Rangers tonight. No doubt to me getting into the weaker Atlantic bracket and playing Montreal or Ottawa in round 1, and Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, or Boston in round 2 is a much better path than Pitt/Wash in rounds 1 and 2. Not that it would be an easy series in round 1 against Montreal let's say, but there are no easy series in the NHL playoffs, so you just hope for the best road, and the Atlantic is by far that. With that said with 21 games left it is still way early to get too hung up on it yet. A win or loss tonight doesn't lock anything in, but this is one game I wouldn't mind an L in.

As for the team, I do truly believe if the Rangers got an upgrade on D they would be a legit SC contender. Right now they are a top 5 or so team, so if they upgrade the D they clearly would be a top team. It comes back to price you'd need to pay (no 1st should be dealt), and path you draw to go on a long run (good luck to any team having to play the Pens and Caps in rounds 1 and 2).

I am a big believer that scoring depth is huge in the NHL playoffs unless you have total studs all over your top 6. And we have maybe more scoring depth than any team in the NHL this season. Look at the SCF run in 2014...a big part of our special sauce that season was a 3rd line that had Pouliot/Brass/Zucc on it. This season we have Grabner/Hayes/Miller on the 3rd line. Same sort of awesome depth. And a 4th line that can contribute as well. That is huge come playoff time. If we can upgrade our D to go with that depth, and Hank in goal there is no reason a long run can't happen. And oh BTW we could still lose in round 1 no doubt, Met or Atlantic bracket, again there are no guarantees in the NHL playoffs. The beauty and curse of it.

If we upgrade on D my concerns would be:

Special Teams. The PK has improved, but still is ranked 14th, which is not good enough. Need to improve there as the playoffs get closer. And the PP has fallen off a cliff again. To me one of those units needs to be very good in order to go far in the SC playoffs, OR they both need to be solid. If both struggle you have virtually no shot to go far. I have some hope here we can play well, especially on the PK, and it needs to happen. We have good PK players, just need to be consistent and clear the puck when given the chance. Recently we have been a little caught up in making plays to try and score SH goals. Get it out.

Face-offs. It is an issue. You cannot lose faceoff after faceoff, especially in your own zone (especially on the PK) and expect to win playoff games against the best teams. Your possession #'s get crushed, and the more the other team has the puck the more bad things can happen to you. We need to be better on face-offs, but at this point I have almost no hope this happens, we sort of are what we are there, and we need to hope Ziban can win a lot of draws for this team during the playoff run. He is by far our best FO guy, followed by Lindberg who may be counted on more come playoff time.

So to me the opportunity is there if we can improve this D. No reason we cannot make a long run, especially if we get into the Atlantic bracket (we'd be the favorite I think). But, as I said above, we could also easily lose in round 1. Welcome to the NHL playoffs I guess. I would look to upgrade on D (for the right price which means no 1st), and then let the chips fall where they may.
 
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Duchene is one of the best faceoff guys in the league. He has his faults but he brings more of what the Rangers need. They need a top faceoff guy and fast, explosive center more than the defense and right handed shot of Stepan. I would not give up more for Duchene. He's no better of a player than Stepan. He's just a better fit. In fact, I might ask for a second in return along with Duchene.

Shattenkirk told the Blues what the world knows. He wants to come to NY. Hopefully, Gorton will not do what moron Sather did and give up picks to a team that has no leverage. I think Gorton is looking at dealing Klein in a deal for Shattenkirk which is why they have been rumored for Smith on Detroit who can play the right side.

Wouldn't offer any more than Klein, Pirri and Huska in a deal for Shattenkirk. That's it.
 
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We all know things happen that no one had a clue about, see the Yandle deal, but I haven't seen anywhere really that Stepan could be dealt or that the Avs are looking to deal Duchene. Unlikely that happens now, unless you are just saying man that would be a good deal for us, I haven't heard either of those names mentioned.

My best guess is we trade for some help on D and go from there. Will it be Shatty 100% depends on will the Blues lower their demands/will some other team say F it and pay the larger price even though they know he will be a true rental and sign with the NYR next season. The only other possible team I see him being dealt to where he may resign with is the Bruins, so to me that would be the last place we want him to go.
 
Hank is playing great hockey now, the Rangers can't wait until next year to get Shattenkirk. I think this team can be very tough in the playoffs with a RD upgrade and he's . Shat has a $4.25 cap hit, Rangers have $2.375 space and the Blues only have $1.32 so I don't see how Step could work. Klein's $2.9 is more cap friendly. Nash is the anchor that has to go - his intangibles and close calls are not worth $7.8.
 
panzerporter said:
Hank is playing great hockey now, the Rangers can't wait until next year to get Shattenkirk. I think this team can be very tough in the playoffs with a RD upgrade and he's . Shat has a $4.25 cap hit, Rangers have $2.375 space and the Blues only have $1.32 so I don't see how Step could work. Klein's $2.9 is more cap friendly. Nash is the anchor that has to go - his intangibles and close calls are not worth $7.8.
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Good post but dont forget the prorated nature of cap hits. Given we're about 3/4 of the way through the season, Shatty would only come with a hit of about $1m or so. We dont need to dump any salary to take him on for this year (signing him for next year is another matter).

Also disagree about Nash...while his "intangibles" may not be worth $7.8, the return we get for him at this deadline wouldnt be worth making the trade. If we want to make a run this year we need to keep him. He's also skating incredibly well this year; that breakaway goal he scored against Carey Price was a thing of beauty. Trading him would create a huge hole in the top 6 in terms of size, offensive threat and defensive capability.
 
kreidertime said:
I would not give up more for Duchene. He's no better of a player than Stepan. He's just a better fit. In fact, I might ask for a second in return along with Duchene.
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I really like Duchene as well. But there's a thread right below this one that you started called "Derek Stepan Sucks Ass," now you're saying Duchene is no better than Stepan and we should in fact ask for the Avs to add. Not sure I follow the logic here.

Duchene-Zbad-Hayes down the middle sounds nice but defensively it would be a troubling liability. I still think Stepan is too important to give up on as a 26 year old.
 
I'm sure someone will panic at the last minute and offer a 1st in a deal for him. Toronto maybe since they really want the playoffs badly up there. I have heard rumors of teams looking at Duchene but not the Rangers. Montreal and Pitt i believe were looking into him. I have feeling Shatt ends up in Pittsburgh as they'll give up a late late 1st and a Pouliot type dman.
 
I agree Prod. Nash is someone who would be dealt with in the summer, if he is dealt with at all going into the final year of his deal. My guess right now is he plays out next year and we go from there. But he could be flipped this summer I guess. Not happening now...no way.

And we have good cap space this trade DL, which is rare for us. That won't preclude us from making the right deal if it is there.

As for looking forward, the only real raise worthy RFA we have to deal with this summer is Ziban. The others, Fast and Pirri and Puempel and Lindberg, are all relatively cheap/we would let walk. NEXT summer of 2018 we have RFA's to resign. Miller and Vesey and Hayes and Skjei. So I will say it's a good thing Nash's money will be off the books, and Klein's will as well. Plus the cap will rise two more times prior to the summer of 2018. And at least some of Girardi's hit will be gone also via buyout or maybe even a trade. So we have moves to make to be ready for summer of 2018.

As for this trade DL, we'll add a dman...we'll see which one in 3 days.
 
theProdigy223 said:
I really like Duchene as well. But there's a thread right below this one that you started called "Derek Stepan Sucks Ass," now you're saying Duchene is no better than Stepan and we should in fact ask for the Avs to add. Not sure I follow the logic here.

Duchene-Zbad-Hayes down the middle sounds nice but defensively it would be a troubling liability. I still think Stepan is too important to give up on as a 26 year old.
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The logic is quite simple if you read what I wrote. Stepan sucks ass here. He sucks ass because he is far too slow to play this system. The players on this team aren't a match for him. The Av's suck ass defensively and Stepan can help them tremendously. Here, he is not a fit. Period.
 
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