DeAndre Jordan Might Be A Blazer Superthread

[AFully22]

Collins will always be too fragile to play center, even thinner than Plumlee. When Nurkic arrived we saw the benefits of a heavy center, on both offense and defense. Nurkic now misses some easy close shots, but Plumlee missed most, not some.

After Olshey vastly overpaid McCollum, we are allergic to $20M contracts, at least till after we get rid of McCollum (when, oh when?).

A year ago, this board was sure that Plumlee would get $20M, so he had to go. He got $13.7M ($41M, 3 years), and Nuggets fans thought that too high. So maybe Nurkic will get $15-16M, not $20M (unless Olshey bids against himself again).

Collins is within 10 lbs or less of; Capela, Pau Gasol, Henson, Myles Turner, Thompson, Zeller, Jokic, Horford, and Gobert. Which is about 1/3 of the starting centers in the league. If he adds 10-15 lbs of muscle in the offseason, which is very possible, he will have no problem guarding NBA centers as he develops. Strength and inexperience are the only reasons he can’t start at center now, both will dramatically improve in the next couple years.

 

[hoopsjock]

Collins is 7’0 23olbs, that’s what I weigh at 6’1! I don’t believe Collins is done filling out and can easily see him with 20lbs of muscle added in the next 2-3 years.

16 mil is too much for fadeaway scoop shots.

Perfect. Pay Nurk. Then when Collins is filled out in 3 years and can MAYBE play center then Nurk will be in the last year of his deal. Until then all of Colllins' strengths like up with playing PF.

 

[BonesJones]

Collins will always be too fragile to play center, even thinner than Plumlee. When Nurkic arrived we saw the benefits of a heavy center, on both offense and defense. Nurkic now misses some easy close shots, but Plumlee missed most, not some.

After Olshey vastly overpaid McCollum, we are allergic to $20M contracts, at least till after we get rid of McCollum (when, oh when?).

A year ago, this board was sure that Plumlee would get $20M, so he had to go. He got $13.7M ($41M, 3 years), and Nuggets fans thought that too high. So maybe Nurkic will get $15-16M, not $20M (unless Olshey bids against himself again).

How will he always be too fragile? Is it impossible for him to put on muscle.....?

Plumlee didn't miss any more close shots than Nurkic does. He shoots a higher percentage between 0-3ft and an equal percentage between 3-10ft. That statement wasn't based in fact.

Olshey didn't overpay McCollum. Efficient, 20ppg scorers are worth $20M+. Inefficient, 9ppg scorers are not worth $18M, however.

 

[BonesJones]

I don’t think the bucks are as high on Parker after ANOTHER partial season played. That said, Parker will command a much larger contract than Nurk. Do they really wanna max out Parker with Freak and others coming up? Nurk would be less of a risk for them and wouldn’t cost as much.

Except Jabari has been proven to be a legit starter while Nurkic has not, so how is Nurkic safer?

 

[LayneStaley]

Except Jabari has been proven to be a legit starter while Nurkic has not, so how is Nurkic safer?

He’s safer because he’s averaged more than 45-50 games per season and he will be cheaper.

Maxing out a guy with 2 knee injuries at 22 years of age is risky

 

[LayneStaley]

Perfect. Pay Nurk. Then when Collins is filled out in 3 years and can MAYBE play center then Nurk will be in the last year of his deal. Until then all of Colllins' strengths like up with playing PF.

Nurk isn’t signing a 3 year deal.

 

[AFully22]

He’s safer because he’s averaged more than 45-50 games per season and he will be cheaper.

Maxing out a guy with 2 knee injuries at 22 years of age is risky

Actually Nurk only averages 53 games in a season lol. He also weighs about 30 lbs more than Parker and has also had a knee surgery. No doubt paying Parker would be risky (although I really doubt Parker would get the max) but in comparison to paying Nurk big money it’s not that much more risky when you consider the ceiling of a healthy Parker.

 

[LayneStaley]

Actually Nurk only averages 53 games in a season lol. He also weighs about 30 lbs more than Parker and has also had a knee surgery. No doubt paying Parker would be risky (although I really doubt Parker would get the max) but in comparison to paying Nurk big money it’s not that much more risky when you consider the ceiling of a healthy Parker.

I believe some team will throw a max offer at Parker, it only takes one and their will be a bidding war for a 22 year old with his skill set. I think Nurk tops out at 15-17 mil. Financially I think Parker is riskier because if they knee goes in year one of a max it really fucks up your salary cap. That said id sign him in a second over Nurk, even for the extra money.

 

[LayneStaley]

They would probably want something like Nurk/Noah/and a 1st for Parker though and I wouldn’t give up the first this year.

 

[hoopsjock]

Nurk isn’t signing a 3 year deal.

I didn't say 3 year deal. I said in 3 years when Collins may or may not be ready to be a center then Nurk would be in the final year of his deal. That equals four years.

Why are we ignoring the fact that the organization clearly views him as a PF? This isn't even debatable right now.

 

[LayneStaley]

I didn't say 3 year deal. I said in 3 years when Collins may or may not be ready to be a center then Nurk would be in the final year of his deal. That equals four years.

Why are we ignoring the fact that the organization clearly views him as a PF? This isn't even debatable right now.

Of course they do right now, otherwise he’d be 3rd on the center depth chart. If Nurk is traded, even for Jordan, then they see Zach as the COTF.

 

[jlprk]

Collins is 7’0 23olbs, that’s what I weigh at 6’1! I don’t believe Collins is done filling out and can easily see him with 20lbs of muscle added in the next 2-3 years.

Collins is within 10 lbs or less of; Capela, Pau Gasol, Henson, Myles Turner, Thompson, Zeller, Jokic, Horford, and Gobert. Which is about 1/3 of the starting centers in the league. If he adds 10-15 lbs of muscle in the offseason, which is very possible, he will have no problem guarding NBA centers as he develops. Strength and inexperience are the only reasons he can’t start at center now, both will dramatically improve in the next couple years.

I don't know about that listed weight. He looks 220, Victor Claver thin, but more important than weight, his leg bones are very thin. Supplements and food will put on muscle, but only a little bone. Standing at an angle to stop someone just as tall, he will never have the power that almost all NBA centers have. His future is at forward.

 

[jlprk]

How will he always be too fragile? Is it impossible for him to put on muscle.....?

See the post right above this.

Plumlee didn't miss any more close shots than Nurkic does. He shoots a higher percentage between 0-3ft and an equal percentage between 3-10ft. That statement wasn't based in fact.

By close shots, I include a little farther out than 3 feet. Like shots when you say, "Why didn't you dunk it?" The player would say if he could, "Because on TV I looked closer than I was."

On set plays for close shots, Nurkic makes them and Plumlee missed them. On individually creatively-produced close shots, Plumlee didn't attempt many, while Nurkic takes and misses many wild ones. The stat you're looking at doesn't distinguish those 2 types of close shots.

Also, we know that Nurkic is capable of a higher inside percentage than your stat because he was so strikingly successful at it when he came to Portland. After the summer, he has played Stotts style, so his percentage went down. (You will say that his 0-3 foot shots have gone up 3 percentage points. But his 3-10 foot shots have gone down 6 percentage points. As I said, I'm defining close shots as a little more than 3 feet.)

Olshey didn't overpay McCollum. Efficient, 20ppg scorers are worth $20M+.

Then Olshey should trade him, because you see the financial chaos results now. Relative to the redundance over Lillard he contributes, McCollum is not worth to this team (he's overpaid to our team) what he might be worth leaguewide (=he's not overpaid to at least one team, the one which would make him the top offer).

 

[LayneStaley]

Is Stotts style twerking your body into any position possible to avoid any contact and then throwing the ball at the rim and falling back like you got fouled? Cause there’s another word for it, SOFT



I’m also very sick of his flopping on the defensive end, how bout a few more blocks and a few less embarrassing attempts at drawing offensive fouls. If he doesn’t flop in the above video he doesn’t get scratched in the face while he’s falling to the ground.

 

[jlprk]

Is Stotts style twerking your body into any position possible to avoid any contact and then throw the ball at the rim and fall back like you got fouled? Cause there’s another word for it, SOFT.

That's part of it. Another part is all the players habitually passing back out when under the basket, not even thinking of putting it up if they see any defender. That's why we have so many long shots, which is Stotts' goal.

 

[stampedehero]

Probably will not happen due to financial kill for us. Only if Turner left in the deal would this make sense from a budget view. Unfortunately, Vonleh would be a chess piece. In addition, maybe Swanigan and a second round pick as well. Turner is not capable of being a good SF and he creates mistakes quite a bit. Clips have enough guards.

 

[Mr. Robot]

and I thought @Strenuus was a hater

 

[BonesJones]

See the post right above this.



By close shots, I include a little farther out than 3 feet. Like shots when you say, "Why didn't you dunk it?" The player would say if he could, "Because on TV I looked closer than I was."

On set plays for close shots, Nurkic makes them and Plumlee missed them. On individually creatively-produced close shots, Plumlee didn't attempt many, while Nurkic takes and misses many wild ones. The stat you're looking at doesn't distinguish those 2 types of close shots.

Also, we know that Nurkic is capable of a higher inside percentage than your stat because he was so strikingly successful at it when he came to Portland. After the summer, he has played Stotts style, so his percentage went down. (You will say that his 0-3 foot shots have gone up 3 percentage points. But his 3-10 foot shots have gone down 6 percentage points. As I said, I'm defining close shots as a little more than 3 feet.)



Then Olshey should trade him, because you see the financial chaos results now. Relative to the redundance over Lillard he contributes, McCollum is not worth to this team (he's overpaid to our team) what he might be worth leaguewide (=he's not overpaid to at least one team, the one which would make him the top offer).

This whole post is one big

 

[jlprk]

This whole post is one big

Glad you recognize how long it takes to write these pearls of wisdom. Feel free to quote from it on your TV show!

 

[Blazinaway]

Bottom line is trading for DAJ would be utterly stupid for many reasons, hopefully its just the usual pre deadline rumor mill BS

 

[hoopsjock]

Of course they do right now, otherwise he’d be 3rd on the center depth chart. If Nurk is traded, even for Jordan, then they see Zach as the COTF.

You're just making this up because it fits your agenda. There is literally zero proof that they will turn him into a center eventually. Everything they are doing shows he will be a PF.

 

[Scalma]

You're just making this up because it fits your agenda. There is literally zero proof that they will turn him into a center eventually. Everything they are doing shows he will be a PF.

Exactly. Playing him at center would be a waste of his perimeter defense. That creates mismatches. Besides, he’s getting overpowered by just about everyone right now, including small forwards. If he does become a center, it won’t happen for years.

 

[julius]

Is Stotts style twerking your body into any position possible to avoid any contact and then throwing the ball at the rim and falling back like you got fouled? Cause there’s another word for it, SOFT



I’m also very sick of his flopping on the defensive end, how bout a few more blocks and a few less embarrassing attempts at drawing offensive fouls. If he doesn’t flop in the above video he doesn’t get scratched in the face while he’s falling to the ground.

I like how you think the video you showed is the best example of him flopping, when it's actually not.

 

[SwissBlazer]

I am not too worried about this rumour to be honest. How many of those materialize after being spread in the media? Not much.

 

[cmeese47]

Fire Olshey if he trades for DJ and includes Nurkic unless he ditches Turner and Leonard in the process.

 

[AFully22]

I don't know about that listed weight. He looks 220, Victor Claver thin, but more important than weight, his leg bones are very thin. Supplements and food will put on muscle, but only a little bone. Standing at an angle to stop someone just as tall, he will never have the power that almost all NBA centers have. His future is at forward.

How in the fuck would you know anything about Collins bone density? Lol that post is hillarious.

 

[Minstrel]

Exactly. Playing him at center would be a waste of his perimeter defense.

Playing him at center doesn't waste his perimeter defense. Having a center able to switch onto a perimeter player is a big deal, allowing the defense to vaporize the popular point guard/center pick-and-roll or wing/center pick-and-roll that's generally designed to isolate a plodding big man on a guard or wing.

 

[RR7]

Everything they are doing shows he will be a PF.

It seems like if this were true, we'd see him on the floor more often with our current starting C that we plan on pairing him with for the future.

 

[Scalma]

Playing him at center doesn't waste his perimeter defense. Having a center able to switch onto a perimeter player is a big deal, allowing the defense to vaporize the popular point guard/center pick-and-roll or wing/center pick-and-roll that's generally designed to isolate a plodding big man on a guard or wing.

That’s only one part of the position he can provide. He’d also have to bang with the 15+ traditional centers running around the league. There’s a reason why Anthony Davis is a power forward.

 

[Minstrel]

That’s only one part of the position he can provide. He’d also have to bang with the 15+ traditional centers running around the league.

Yeah. I personally don't think that will be a major problem with an off-season or two of muscle/weight development. While there are still bigger centers in the league, very few of them are dominant players or even players that their teams run the offense through predominantly. If Collins proves to be as injury-prone as Davis, center may not be in his long-term future but I certainly wouldn't start from that assumption. Collins already has the rim protection and perimeter-switching potential that I consider the most valuable defensive traits at center these days.