Politics Democratic Socialism

[magnifier661]

Usually if you want the opinion of black people you ask a black person instead of making it up as you go along. I also did clarify my statement about AIDS and bush. When Kanye said what he said he was speaking for the majority of us and it is true. I'm sure you're one or two black friends can probably confirm it.

Newsflash... You don't speak for all black men or women. I don't speak for all Koreans. You are a fucking human being where no 2 people are alike, so don't give me some bullshit of how you know what your entire race believes because you're that color.

 

[julius]

Newsflash... You don't speak for all black men or women. I don't speak for all Koreans. You are a fucking human being where no 2 people are alike, so don't give me some bullshit of how you know what your entire race believes because you're that color.

It's probably fair to say that you probably have a better grasp on how Koreans feel about certain subjects compared to say, Sly or myself.

 

[magnifier661]

It's probably fair to say that you probably have a better grasp on how Koreans feel about certain subjects compared to say, Sly or myself.

Good point... I definitely think dviss has a much better clue of the culture of African Americans.

 

[oldfisherman]

It's probably fair to say that you probably have a better grasp on how Koreans feel about certain subjects compared to say, Sly or myself.

That would be a faulty assumption.

I am white. I do not have a clue as to how most of the other whites feel about anything, or, why they feel that way, unless they explain it to me in way that is understandable.

Everyone’s view is unique to them, regardless of their race.

If this internet is teaching us anything at all, it should be that forming any opinion that is based on a group membership, be it race, religion, political opinion, sex, nationality, social class, disability, language, or nationality, is a form of prejudice.

So stop being prejudice, there is a person on this site that is very well known for hating it.

 

[julius]

That would be a faulty assumption.

I am white. I do not have a clue as to how most of the other whites feel about anything, or, why they feel that way, unless they explain it to me in way that is understandable.

Everyone’s view is unique to them, regardless of their race.

If this internet is teaching us anything at all, it should be that forming any opinion that is based on a group membership, be it race, religion, political opinion, sex, nationality, social class, disability, language, or nationality, is a form of prejudice.

So stop being prejudice, there is a person on this site that is very well known for hating it.

"better grasp" ≠ knowing

I'm saying that someone who is of a certain race/religious beliefs etc, probably has a better idea what their fellow (whatever) thinks.

 

[oldfisherman]

"better grasp" ≠ knowing

I'm saying that someone who is of a certain race/religious beliefs etc, probably has a better idea what their fellow (whatever) thinks.

Belonging to a group does not guarantee you know what others in your group think. How do you know what anyone else thinks unless they tell you?

Any un-informed opinion you form based on a group membership is a pure assumption on your part.

Speaking for others without knowing what they think is wrong. The more I see on the internet, the more I understand the odds that 2 people within the same group will agree on any subject related to the group is very often only 50%.

We all belong to a group membership known as Blazer fans. But how often do we agree on Blazer related issues? We never all agree, and often we are split near 50-50. Now how often does our group agree on non-Blazer topics? Probably never.

If you live with a person, or, work 8 hours a day with a person, you get to know them and what they really think, and why. Put to assume you know what others think because they are in the same group as you is irresponsible.

 

[julius]

Belonging to a group does not guarantee you know what others in your group think. How do you know what anyone else thinks unless they tell you?

Any un-informed opinion you form based on a group membership is a pure assumption on your part.

Speaking for others without knowing what they think is wrong. The more I see on the internet, the more I understand the odds that 2 people within the same group will agree on any subject related to the group is very often only 50%.

We all belong to a group membership known as Blazer fans. But how often do we agree on Blazer related issues? We never all agree, and often we are split near 50-50. Now how often does our group agree on non-Blazer topics? Probably never.

If you live with a person, or, work 8 hours a day with a person, you get to know them and what they really think, and why. Put to think you know what others think because they are in the same group as you is irresponsible.

If most of my friends are conservative (and I am too), and I spend most of my time with them talking politics, I probably have a good idea what the average conservative feels/thinks.

Here's a few examples.

I'm willing to bet that most progressives/liberals actually prefer Bernie over Hillary.

I'm willing to bet that most Blazer fans dislike the Lakers, are fans of Damian, like the uniforms and don't want the team to move out of Portland.


If you spend most of your time among people that are homogeneous in nature, chances are you'll get a good idea about certain beliefs.

I.E., if someone who is black, has been black their entire life, spends more of their time around other black people, talks more with people who are black than other races, chances are they have a good idea what a portion of black people believe about a certain subject or thing.

And if it makes someone feel uncomfortable that I used black, change it for another name (gay, white, asian, female, latino, Laker fans).

 

[Denny Crane]

Read the edit.

He sent over there several $billions. $20M was for abstinence programs to please the republican congress.

You seriously need to get a grip on the facts.

 

[Denny Crane]

I tried to clarify that with the above post. Bottom line it was a waste of over 1.3 Billion as it did nothing but cause the spread of more HIV.

Before the plan, 100,000 people in Africa were getting AIDS meds. By the time Bush left, several million were getting meds.

Sounds exactly like he doesn't like black people.

 

[oldfisherman]

If most of my friends are conservative (and I am too), and I spend most of my time with them talking politics, I probably have a good idea what the average conservative feels/thinks.

Here's a few examples.

I'm willing to bet that most progressives/liberals actually prefer Bernie over Hillary.

I'm willing to bet that most Blazer fans dislike the Lakers, are fans of Damian, like the uniforms and don't want the team to move out of Portland.


If you spend most of your time among people that are homogeneous in nature, chances are you'll get a good idea about certain beliefs.

I.E., if someone who is black, has been black their entire life, spends more of their time around other black people, talks more with people who are black than other races, chances are they have a good idea what a portion of black people believe about a certain subject or thing.

And if it makes someone feel uncomfortable that I used black, change it for another name (gay, white, asian, female, latino, Laker fans).

I understand your view, and will admit your Blazer example has minor merit (capt. obvious). I will give you a like for that point.

However, I still disagree with you on all other points. How can you form an opinion about liberals by talking to a small group of conservative friends? If you had said, this is what such and such poll reports, now your opinion has some credibility.

There maybe very limited subjects were a group has formed a consensus opinion, such as your Blazer example. But the consensus ends after a very short list of issues.

You are trying to turn un-informed opinions into facts, and that is wrong.

 

[julius]

I understand your view, and will admit your Blazer example has minor merit (capt. obvious). I will give you a like for that point.

However, I still disagree with you on all other points. How can you form an opinion about liberals by talking to a small group of conservative friends? If you had said, this is what such and such poll reports, now your opinion has some credibility.

Never said that. I used the example that if I was conservative, and all my friends were of the same and we talked about politics, I'd have a good idea.

 

[oldfisherman]

Never said that. I used the example that if I was conservative, and all my friends were of the same and we talked about politics, I'd have a good idea.

If most of my friends are conservative (and I am too), and I spend most of my time with them talking politics, I probably have a good idea what the average conservative feels/thinks.

Here's a few examples.

I'm willing to bet that most progressives/liberals actually prefer Bernie over Hillary.

I.

Your example was forming an opinion about a group you do not belong to, liberals. A poll would have far more credibility than your idea from a small number of people in a non-liberal group.

 

[riverman]

At some point, we all need to collectively stop pointing fingers at each other because of stereotypes. I probably know more about Taiwan and the culture and history there than Jeremy Lin ever learned from his grandparents and my Mandarin may even be better than his is. I have a better understanding of Asia in general than my inlaws there because I've traveled extensively and they have really not. I used to teach a course in my syllabus program over there called what does an american look like. It was hard for many students to separate ethnicity and nationality. In the forums here there is a tendency to identify members into groups, which is also bullshit. Successful Democratic Socialism has to view the barter of earned income as a value system as a form of money even if it doesn't appear as money in your check...it appears as healthcare or education or public services. It's something worth looking into. Taxes aren't as big a problem to me as the lack of savings and investments young people have here. If we expect the govt to budget responsibly, we should also budget responsibly and educate the youth to do this as well. Taking care of the elderly instead of farming them out to senior disabled services is another area where the US drops the ball.

 

[julius]

Your example was forming an opinion about a group you do not belong to, liberals. A poll would have far more credibility than your idea from a small number of people in a non-liberal group.

Um, no it wasn't.

I said

If most of my friends are conservative (and I am too), and I spend most of my time with them talking politics, I probably have a good idea what the average conservative feels/thinks.

As in, if I'm X, and I spend my time around a lot of other X's, I probably have a good idea what most X's feel about a topic.

Here's a few examples.

I'm willing to bet that most progressives/liberals actually prefer Bernie over Hillary.

I said that last part because I am a progressive and Hillary is only called a "liberal" by those who aren't.

 

[dviss1]

If most of my friends are conservative (and I am too), and I spend most of my time with them talking politics, I probably have a good idea what the average conservative feels/thinks.

Here's a few examples.

I'm willing to bet that most progressives/liberals actually prefer Bernie over Hillary.

I'm willing to bet that most Blazer fans dislike the Lakers, are fans of Damian, like the uniforms and don't want the team to move out of Portland.


If you spend most of your time among people that are homogeneous in nature, chances are you'll get a good idea about certain beliefs.

I.E., if someone who is black, has been black their entire life, spends more of their time around other black people, talks more with people who are black than other races, chances are they have a good idea what a portion of black people believe about a certain subject or thing.

And if it makes someone feel uncomfortable that I used black, change it for another name (gay, white, asian, female, latino, Laker fans).

I'm black. I am NOT African American. I love the fact that you use to term black and black people love that as well. We hate the term African American more so than we dislike George Bush.

 

[dviss1]

He sent over there several $billions. $20M was for abstinence programs to please the republican congress.

You seriously need to get a grip on the facts.

The New York Times seems to think differently. I trust their information much more than the story you posted.

 

[dviss1]

Newsflash... You don't speak for all black men or women. I don't speak for all Koreans. You are a fucking human being where no 2 people are alike, so don't give me some bullshit of how you know what your entire race believes because you're that color.

You really don't know what the fuck you're talking about right now.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I speak for all the Sly Dogs of the world.

And would just like to say, Fuck you humans!

 

[dviss1]

Trump is on CNN right now talking about how there is 2.5 trillion overseas that he wants to bring back by charging a lower amount of tax on it. What's he talking about Denny and mags? He's talking about the money I was just talking about previously...

 

[Denny Crane]

The New York Times seems to think differently. I trust their information much more than the story you posted.

You need to read your own article. It is critical of the $20M spent on abstinence, and did not mention the $billions Bush asked congress for and sent to Africa.

 

[Denny Crane]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8e023c-e1ac-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

Washington Post. No friend to republicans.

 

[Denny Crane]

For Obama, the success of Bush’s program has proved a tad awkward, as he has been mindful to praise his predecessor even as he tries to push forward on his administration’s own plans for new programs based on private investment from U.S. businesses. Flying to South Africa from Senegal this weekend, Obama told reporters that Bush “deserves enormous credit” for the fight against HIV/AIDS, acknowledging that the program likely saved millions of lives.


In South Africa, the success was extraordinary. AIDS killed roughly 2.3 million in South Africa — once one of the worst-affected countries in the world — and orphaned about a million children there, according to the United Nations. Today, rates of infection have fallen to 30 percent, and nearly 2 million people are on antiretroviral drugs.

 

[dviss1]

You really don't know what the fuck you're talking about right now.

Do I need to go get the post where you said that Koreans are all racist? Or do you need to go get it? I'll let you look up your own hypocrisy.

 

[dviss1]

Hypocrisy

For Obama, the success of Bush’s program has proved a tad awkward, as he has been mindful to praise his predecessor even as he tries to push forward on his administration’s own plans for new programs based on private investment from U.S. businesses. Flying to South Africa from Senegal this weekend, Obama told reporters that Bush “deserves enormous credit” for the fight against HIV/AIDS, acknowledging that the program likely saved millions of lives.


In South Africa, the success was extraordinary. AIDS killed roughly 2.3 million in South Africa — once one of the worst-affected countries in the world — and orphaned about a million children there, according to the United Nations. Today, rates of infection have fallen to 30 percent, and nearly 2 million people are on antiretroviral drugs.

Only two million people? There's over 20 million people in Africa that have HIV... He's telling them that abstinence is the best practice not using condoms.

 

[Denny Crane]

Hypocrisy


Only two million people? There's over 20 million people in Africa that have HIV... He's telling them that abstinence is the best practice not using condoms.

No he's not. The Bush administration policies got actual medicine to millions of people suffering from AIDs over there.

As you've been rightly told before, the program is called ABC, and the C stands for Condoms, as in "correct and consistent" use of them.

Abstinence actually does work, FWIW. It's just unrealistic to expect everyone to abstain all the time.

Your hatred of the man doesn't change the reality about the amazing good that he's done. For black people.

 

[Denny Crane]

Just wow. Let 'em die instead?

Only 2 million. It's quite a few more people who benefited from W's program.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief
http://www.pepfar.gov/funding/results/index.htm

The U.S. directly supported life-saving antiretroviral treatment for more than 5.1 million men, women, and children world wide as of September 30, 2012.

PEPFAR directly supported HIV testing and counseling for more than 11 million pregnant women in fiscal year 2012.

PEPFAR supported antiretroviral drug phrophylaxis to prevent mother-to-child transmission, more than 750,000 of theses women who tested positive for HIV, allowing approximately 230,000 infants to be born HIV-free.

PEPFAR directly supported nearly 15 million people with care and support, including nearly 15 million orphans and vulnerable children, in fiscal year 2012.

PEPFAR directly supported approximately 2 million male circumcision procedures worldwide cumulatively through September 2012.

PEPFAR directly supported HIV testing and counseling for more than 46.5 million people in fiscal year 2012, providing a critical entry point for treatment, prevention, and care.

The U.S. is the first and largest donor to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria.To date, the U.S. has provided more than $7 billion to the fund.

Of the estimated 8 million individuals in low- and middle-income countries who currently receive treatment, nearly 6.8 million receive support through PEPFAR bilateral programs, the Global Fund, or both.

 

[riverman]

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[riverman]

I'll agree with Denny that I don't think Bush is a racist..his work In Haiti with Bill Clinton was no photo op..credit where credit is due

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'll agree with Denny that I don't think Bush is a racist..his work In Haiti with Bill Clinton was no photo op..credit where credit is due

Bush has also been a friend to dogs.