Politics Democratic Socialism

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[dviss1]

Can you be done posting bullshit about voter fraud now?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp

 

[oldfisherman]

Mags... Just stop... Stop posting right wing websites to "prove" your point. You're floundering now...

AND, your message flopped.

 

[magnifier661]

Can you be done posting bullshit about voter fraud now?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp

This is actual facts...

http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/11-03-08-FINAL-whitepaper.pdf

 

[dviss1]

AND, your message flopped.

I'm tring to remember when you've ever made a valid post.

 

[magnifier661]

I'm tring to remember when you've ever made a valid post.

http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/11-03-08-FINAL-whitepaper.pdf

Some of the 4,947 individuals almost certainly were not citizens at the time they voted.

Of the 11,805 people who showed a non-citizen credential when they received their driver’s licenses, 4,947 – or 41.9% -- voted in the 2010 general election. By comparison, 55.5% of all registered voters turned out to vote in the 2010 election, as noted in the table below:

2010 turnout of all registered voters compared to
voters who showed non-citizen documents to obtain a driver’s license

Registered to Vote

Voted in 2010 General Election

Percentage of Registered

All registered voters

3,293,942

1,828,323

55.5%

Registered voters who presented non-citizen credentials to obtain driver’s license

11,805

4,947

41.9%

4

As noted earlier, The Department of State does not know if a person became a citizen after obtaining a driver’s license or identification card. Similarly, a non-citizen may have been improperly registered to vote, but may have later become a citizen and legally voted. For the reasons discussed above, however, it is likely that many of the 4,947 voters were not citizens when they cast their vote in 2010.

 

[dviss1]

This is actual facts...

http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/11-03-08-FINAL-whitepaper.pdf

Someone doesn't understand the difference between registration fraud and voter fraud.

This is a common Right Wing talking point.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It's interesting to watch Mags dance from one talking point to another, as if they're all connected AND that what he posts links to/references actually back up what he's saying.

It's like watching PapaG in his prime.

Except mags does an excellent job of explaining and defending his views without insulting anyone.

 

[magnifier661]

G. Summary

The Department of Revenue shows 211,200 people who used a non-citizen credential to obtain a driver’s license or identification card. Comparing these names to the statewide voter database shows that 11,805 are currently registered to vote in Colorado. Of the 11,805 registrants, 4,214 voted in the 2010 election.

The Department of State is virtually certain that 106 of these non-citizens are improperly registered to vote and believes that many of the remaining 11,699 are improperly registered to vote. But it cannot accurately determine the number of non-citizens improperly registered to vote, nor can it determine the reasons for any improper registrations. In light of these uncertainties, additional data and the authority to administratively resolve citizenship questions will avoid expensive and perhaps ill-suited criminal investigations.

 

[magnifier661]

Someone doesn't understand the difference between registration fraud and voter fraud.

This is a common Right Wing talking point.

G. Summary

The Department of Revenue shows 211,200 people who used a non-citizen credential to obtain a driver’s license or identification card. Comparing these names to the statewide voter database shows that 11,805 are currently registered to vote in Colorado. Of the 11,805 registrants, 4,214 voted in the 2010 election.

The Department of State is virtually certain that 106 of these non-citizens are improperly registered to vote and believes that many of the remaining 11,699 are improperly registered to vote. But it cannot accurately determine the number of non-citizens improperly registered to vote, nor can it determine the reasons for any improper registrations. In light of these uncertainties, additional data and the authority to administratively resolve citizenship questions will avoid expensive and perhaps ill-suited criminal investigations.

 

[riverman]

It's interesting to watch Mags dance from one talking point to another, as if they're all connected AND that what he posts links to/references actually back up what he's saying.

It's like watching PapaG in his prime.

Good analogy..you could just merge these threads of his into one bipartisan hatred thread

 

[dviss1]

Except mags does an excellent job of explaining and defending his views without insulting anyone.

I disagree. He does an OK job but several times he's gotten away with personal insults.

 

[magnifier661]

Good analogy..you could just merge these threads of his into one bipartisan hatred thread

That's why no one wanted you mod.

 

[magnifier661]

I disagree. He does an OK job but several times he's gotten away with personal insults.

Coming from you, that's fucking laughable!!!! You throw insults out like a Democrat signing up illegals and dead people to vote.

 

[dviss1]

Good analogy..you could just merge these threads of his into one bipartisan hatred thread

Seriously. We're way far away from talking about Democratic Socialism.

 

[dviss1]

Coming from you, that's fucking laughable!!!! You throw insults out like a Democrat signing up illegals and dead people to vote.

Great! So I never do it! Thanks for confirming that Mags!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I disagree. He does an OK job but several times he's gotten away with personal insults.

We are all guilty of that at times when discussions get heated in the OT section.

 

[riverman]

We have a few of those around the globe too mags

 

[magnifier661]

Great! So I never do it! Thanks for confirming that Mags!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/17/cincinnati-illegal-voting/2530119/

Melowese Richardson was the third person convicted this year of illegal voting in the Cincinnati area:

• Sister Marguerite Kloos, 55, of Delhi Township, Ohio, voted last fall via absentee ballot for another nun who died before she could cast her vote. Kloos lost her job as a dean at the College of Mount Saint Joseph and was placed on probation. She could have her conviction erased and be eligible to vote again.

• Russell Glassop, 76, of Symmes Township, Ohio, submitted his wife's absentee ballot after she died in 2012. He was placed on probation but could have his conviction erased and be eligible to vote again.

• Richardson, 58, of Cincinnati, was convicted of casting illegal votes in 2012 when she was a poll worker. She was sent to prison for five years.

Three others — Margaret I. Allen, 64, formerly of Loveland, Ohio; Ernestine Strickland, 84, of Memphis, Tenn.; and Andre Wilson, 49, of Cincinnati — have cases pending.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Honestly, sometimes I just post shit to needle or provoke Mags because we are friends and I see how passionate he is in his beliefs. I was really disappointed I didn't get a rise out of him from my Trump for president of Egypt post.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/17/cincinnati-illegal-voting/2530119/

Melowese Richardson was the third person convicted this year of illegal voting in the Cincinnati area:

• Sister Marguerite Kloos, 55, of Delhi Township, Ohio, voted last fall via absentee ballot for another nun who died before she could cast her vote. Kloos lost her job as a dean at the College of Mount Saint Joseph and was placed on probation. She could have her conviction erased and be eligible to vote again.

• Russell Glassop, 76, of Symmes Township, Ohio, submitted his wife's absentee ballot after she died in 2012. He was placed on probation but could have his conviction erased and be eligible to vote again.

• Richardson, 58, of Cincinnati, was convicted of casting illegal votes in 2012 when she was a poll worker. She was sent to prison for five years.

Three others — Margaret I. Allen, 64, formerly of Loveland, Ohio; Ernestine Strickland, 84, of Memphis, Tenn.; and Andre Wilson, 49, of Cincinnati — have cases pending.

And we know they all voted democrat because? I mean that was your original point.

And I'm not seeing a Mexican sounding name in any of those examples.

 

[magnifier661]

And we know they all voted democrat because? I mean that was your original point.

And I'm not seeing a Mexican sounding name in any of those examples.

That was in response of @dviss1 saying that Democrats don't have dead people voting. If you read the article, the lady was a Democrat pollster.

 

[riverman]

That's why no one wanted you mod.

actually, you are wrong about that too but I definitely didn't want to be a mod.

 

[magnifier661]

actually, you are wrong about that too but I definitely didn't want to be a mod.

That's a good thing, because we really don't need an emotional mod. We already have Rasta

 

[dviss1]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/17/cincinnati-illegal-voting/2530119/

Melowese Richardson was the third person convicted this year of illegal voting in the Cincinnati area:

• Sister Marguerite Kloos, 55, of Delhi Township, Ohio, voted last fall via absentee ballot for another nun who died before she could cast her vote. Kloos lost her job as a dean at the College of Mount Saint Joseph and was placed on probation. She could have her conviction erased and be eligible to vote again.

• Russell Glassop, 76, of Symmes Township, Ohio, submitted his wife's absentee ballot after she died in 2012. He was placed on probation but could have his conviction erased and be eligible to vote again.

• Richardson, 58, of Cincinnati, was convicted of casting illegal votes in 2012 when she was a poll worker. She was sent to prison for five years.

Three others — Margaret I. Allen, 64, formerly of Loveland, Ohio; Ernestine Strickland, 84, of Memphis, Tenn.; and Andre Wilson, 49, of Cincinnati — have cases pending.

Sooo.... 3 instances... In how many millions of votes?

Did you NOT get the snopes link I posted? Here it is again...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp

This is NOT a reason to create unconstitutional poll taxes...

 

[SlyPokerDog]

That's a good thing, because we really don't need an emotional mod. We already have Rasta

Rasta isn't a mod.

 

[magnifier661]

Rasta isn't a mod.

Oh thank GOD

 

[magnifier661]

Sooo.... 3 instances... In how many millions of votes?

Did you NOT get the snopes link I posted? Here it is again...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/2012fraud.asp

This is NOT a reason to create unconstitutional poll taxes...

You said never, did you not?

Great! So I never do it! Thanks for confirming that Mags!

But we all know how you generalize. I mean, saying all Republicans are evil, racist homophobes should be proof right here:

When it comes to hating gays, attempting to take away Black people's ability to vote with poll taxes, hammering on all Latinos as illegals, yeah that shit is pretty damn evil.

 

[dviss1]

7 papers, 4 government inquiries, 2 news investigations and 1 court ruling proving voter fraud is mostly a myth:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-ruling-proving-voter-fraud-is-mostly-a-myth/


Voter ID laws are back in the news this week after a group of college studentsjoined a lawsuit challenging North Carolina's new restrictive rules. And as Catherine Rampell pointed out earlier this week, it's not just ID laws - Republican state legislatures have been busy devising all manner of creative ways to make voting more difficult for traditionally Democratic-leaning groups.

All of these restrictive measures take their justification from a perceived need to prevent "voter fraud." But there is overwhelming scholarly and legal consensus that voter fraud is vanishingly rare, and in fact non-existent at the levels imagined by voter ID proponents. That hasn't stopped many Republican lawmakers from crying "fraud" every time they're faced with an unfavorable election outcome (see also: McDaniel, Chris).

For reference, a round-up of the latest research is below. Let me know in the comments if I missed anything.

Academic research
The Truth About Voter Fraud, by Justin Levitt of Loyola Law School. Levitt performed a wide-ranging analysis of alleged incidents of voter fraud across the U.S. "Usually, only a tiny portion of the claimed illegality is substantiated — and most of the remainder is either nothing more than speculation or has been conclusively debunked."

The Politics of Voter Fraud, by Lorraine Minnite of Columbia University. Minnite concludes that voter fraud is exceedingly rare, and that the few allegations in the record usually turn out to be something other than voter fraud: "a review of news stories over a recent two year period found that reports of voter fraud were most often limited to local races and individual acts and fell into three categories: unsubstantiated or false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error."

Fraudulent Votes, Voter Identification and the 2012 US General Election, by John Ahlquist and Kenneth R. Mayer of the University of Wisconsin, and Simon Jackman of Stanford. The authors conducted a survey experiment "to measure the prevalence of two specific types of voter fraud: repeat/fraudulent ballot casting and vote buying." Their conclusion: "The notion that voter impersonation is a widespread behavior is totally contradicted by these data."

Voter Identifications Laws, by Minnite again. "In 95 percent of so-called 'cemetery voting' alleged in the 2010 midterm election in South Carolina, human error accounts for nearly all of what the state's highest law enforcement official had informed the U.S. Department of Justice was fraud."

Caught in the Act: Recent Federal Election Fraud Cases, by Delia Bailey of the Washington University in St. Louis. Bailey unearthed only nine federal election fraud cases occurring between 2000 and 2005.

They Just Do Not Vote Like They Used To: A Methodology to Empirically Assess Election Fraud, by M.V. Hood III of the University of Georgia and William Gillespie of Kennesaw State University. "After examining approximately 2.1 million votes cast during the 2006 general election in Georgia, we find no evidence that election fraud was committed under the auspices of deceased registrants."

Identifying Election Fraud Using Orphan and Low Propensity Voters, by Ray Christensen and Thomas Schulz of Brigham Young University. The authors devise a new test for identifying instances of voter fraud; turn up no new instances of voter fraud.

Government investigations
A two-year investigation by Iowa's Republican secretary of state found evidence of 117 possible fraudulent votes and led to just six - six! - criminal convictions.

In 2011 a Wisconsin task force found sufficient evidence to charge 20 people with fraudulent voting in the 2008 elections. Most of these were felons who were ineligible to vote.

Kansas' secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.

A 10-year 'death audit' in North Carolina turned up a grand total of 50 instances in which a vote may have been attributed to a deceased person, most likely due to errors made by precinct workers.

News investigations
The New York Times examined five years of Justice Department recordsand turned up only 26 convictions of fraud by individual voters. "Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules." And many of the cases were "linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support." Overall, the Times concluded that "the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections."

News 21, a student journalism project based at Arizona State University,analyzed 2,068 alleged fraud cases from 2000 to 2012 and found a total of 10 cases of alleged voter impersonation. They found that "while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent."

Court rulings
In striking down Wisconsin's voter ID law this spring, district judge Lynn Adelman wrote "The evidence at trial established that virtually no voter impersonation occurs in Wisconsin. The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past."