Politics Democratic Socialism

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donkiez said:
Cost of education has changed. In the 60s you could get a degree and pay for it mostly with your summer job. Now our education payment system looks more like the housing bubble or health care system, we are guaranteeing huge payments to institutions and separating the person from the actual immediate cost, which has caused a exponential increase in cost of education and removes most price checks that would normally be in a free market system.

Edit to add: education is vital for social economic status mobility. You either pay, get lucky, or get left behind.
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Okay let's say everything you said is right. How do you plan on implementing federal law to these state schools? With federal funding comes federal laws.
 
magnifier661 said:
Okay let's say everything you said is right. How do you plan on implementing federal law to these state schools? With federal funding comes federal laws.
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He wants you to pay for it.
 
Denny Crane said:
He wants you to pay for it.
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You already pay it. Pell grant expense is in the 30B-40B range.

Bernie's plan is to tax financial transactions on wall street to raise the money. Also changing the payment method will reintroduce price checks.
 
magnifier661 said:
I just don't think state legislation will get behind the federal government saying how they school their citizens.
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ok I wasn't sure the point you were trying to make in the previous post. I see this as somewhat minor details that would be worked out. The trick will be keeping private institutions happy with a public system of payment. I dont have all the answers.
 
donkiez said:
ok I wasn't sure the point you were trying to make in the previous post. I see this as somewhat minor details that would be worked out. The trick will be keeping private institutions happy with a public system of payment. I dont have all the answers.
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But working it out is unconstitutional. Actions like these would take away the very foundation of why we have a separate State and Federal government.

The other problem I see is mass transit like federal highways, infrastructure, etc. When the feds pay for it, they make the rules on how it's spent, who is getting what and where. The state again loses state legislation power in a socialist democracy.
 
magnifier661 said:
But working it out is unconstitutional. Actions like these would take away the very foundation of why we have a separate State and Federal government.

The other problem I see is mass transit like federal highways, infrastructure, etc. When the feds pay for it, they make the rules on how it's spent, who is getting what and where. The state again loses state legislation power in a socialist democracy.
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For the examples you listed I don't see that as a problem. I'm all for states rights but certain things need a bit of oversight or the greater benefit outweighs the discomfort. You could extend this thinking to federal prisons or various other FED regulatory programs. Its also not that far out of line for what is already happening in many areas, FED money makes states bend to their will in many areas. I dont really see that as unconstitutional, maybe just poor spending.
 
magnifier661 said:
But working it out is unconstitutional. Actions like these would take away the very foundation of why we have a separate State and Federal government.

The other problem I see is mass transit like federal highways, infrastructure, etc. When the feds pay for it, they make the rules on how it's spent, who is getting what and where. The state again loses state legislation power in a socialist democracy.
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Locally we pay a gas tax for road repair, improvements, etc..
 
riverman said:
Locally we pay a gas tax for road repair, improvements, etc..
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Oh yeah, good point. But if you break it down, the state also has a gas tax. So what does the federal gas tax goes to? Interstate highways?
 
riverman said:
That would be my guess, and hiway patrol maybe
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I believe ODOT is funded by the State which is funded be property tax, gambling tax, tobacco and alcohol tax. We don't have sales tax here which I think sucks...no tourist dollars contribute to the fund with the exception of a small hotel tax if they stay in one.
 
donkiez said:
You already pay it. Pell grant expense is in the 30B-40B range.

Bernie's plan is to tax financial transactions on wall street to raise the money. Also changing the payment method will reintroduce price checks.
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PAY WAY MORE FOR IT.

Who's going to pay? "The Rich"
 
Denny Crane said:
PAY WAY MORE FOR IT.

Who's going to pay? "The Rich"
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According to Sanders plan, total tuition costs are estimated at $70B. FEDs pay 2/3 and State pays 1/3. The FED portion would be covered by a tax on derivatives, stocks and bonds at rates of less than 0.1%. So total new state obligations would be $23.1B, but new FED pell obligations savings $30B. Seems like a net gain to me, just have to figure out how to filter some of the savings to the states. And as an added bonus you get skilled earners to help pay for your social security.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...ls-plan-for-tuition-free-public-colleges.html
 
donkiez said:
According to Sanders plan, total tuition costs are estimated at $70B. FEDs pay 2/3 and State pays 1/3. The FED portion would be covered by a tax on derivatives, stocks and bonds at rates of less than 0.1%. So total new state obligations would be $23.1B, but new FED pell obligations savings $30B. Seems like a net gain to me, just have to figure out how to filter some of the savings to the states. And as an added bonus you get skilled earners to help pay for your social security.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...ls-plan-for-tuition-free-public-colleges.html
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So he wants to sock it to everyone's pension and 401k.

Ewwww. No thanks.

Even a tiny fraction of a % of overhead does huge damage to fund growth over time.
 
Denny Crane said:
So he wants to sock it to everyone's pension and 401k.

Ewwww. No thanks.

Even a tiny fraction of a % of overhead does huge damage to fund growth over time.
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The tax is just on transactions so the average person would barely notice.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
 
donkiez said:
The tax is just on transactions so the average person would barely notice.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
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Transaction by the pensions and 401k etc. Hundreds of $billions, but nobody will notice?

Think again...
 
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/retirement/paying-401k-plan-1.aspx

Research by Valletta's firm shows that total plan costs on a 100-participant plan with a $50,000 average account balance range from 0.36 percent to 1.71 percent.

To put that in perspective, according to the Department of Labor, an employee with a 401(k) balance of $25,000 whose account makes a 7 percent return annually minus 0.5 percent in fees will see his balance hit about $227,000 by the time he retires 35 years later -- even if he makes no further contributions. Increase the fees to 1.5 percent, and that same employee's balance will drop to roughly $163,000 at retirement, a 28 percent reduction.
 
Denny Crane said:
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/retirement/paying-401k-plan-1.aspx

Research by Valletta's firm shows that total plan costs on a 100-participant plan with a $50,000 average account balance range from 0.36 percent to 1.71 percent.

To put that in perspective, according to the Department of Labor, an employee with a 401(k) balance of $25,000 whose account makes a 7 percent return annually minus 0.5 percent in fees will see his balance hit about $227,000 by the time he retires 35 years later -- even if he makes no further contributions. Increase the fees to 1.5 percent, and that same employee's balance will drop to roughly $163,000 at retirement, a 28 percent reduction.
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Your posting numbers based on a tax of rate of return, which is not what Bernie's plan calls for. Bernie's plan taxes transactions, so its more like a sales tax on financials. The 0.5% is for stock trades which amounts to 50cents for every $100 traded and the cost to an American retire looking to liquidate his retirement would be a max of $500 for every $100k. Derivatives, bonds and foreign exchange transactions would get a smaller tax of 0.005% to 0.5%. The real target of this tax is automated high frequency trades. By the way there is already a small tax of this nature to fund the SEC, so its not without precedent.
 
donkiez said:
Your posting numbers based on a tax of rate of return, which is not what Bernie's plan calls for. Bernie's plan taxes transactions, so its more like a sales tax on financials. The 0.5% is for stock trades which amounts to 50cents for every $100 traded and the cost to an American retire looking to liquidate his retirement would be a max of $500 for every $100k. Derivatives, bonds and foreign exchange transactions would get a smaller tax of 0.005% to 0.5%. The real target of this tax is automated high frequency trades. By the way there is already a small tax of this nature to fund the SEC, so its not without precedent.
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They're equivalent "taxes" on retirement accounts.

The mutual fund you invest your 401K in does automated high frequency trades.

The effect of the .5% tax would be the same as the .5% fee.

Just look at how much tax revenue you think it will raise. That's coming from peoples' life savings (retirement). If the money is significant, it's significant (duh).
 
Bernie's the man!

He's been fighting the good fight for years:

 
I watched the whole thing! Good stuff. I'm for Bernie.
 
magnifier661 said:
If you make 12,000 per year, you pay 3,972 in fed taxes, you pay 32.5% fed taxes.

If you make 25,000 per year, you pay 8,801 in fed taxes, you pay 35% federal tax.

If you make 80,000 per year, you pay 34,257 in fed taxes, 42% federal taxes.

If you make 500,000 per year, you pay 252,000 in fed taxes, 50.4% federal taxes.

LMAO, it looks like the rich and poor don't pay as much taxes as the middle class that get raped for 70%
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Same as America. As far as the middle class supporting both the poor and the rich anyway.
 
91276584_2854047991378153_2630301271298408448_n.jpg
 
Still fighting the last war, are we?

barfo
 
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