Politics Democrats Don't build dams!

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MarAzul

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I heard this on the TV local news yesterday. It was a Democrat that said it, the interviewer said, As a Democrat why do you said this? I don't know who he was nor did I get to hear his explaination. The TV receptions went to hell for that part.

Oh well, it must be true. There have not been any dams built in decades and they all need cleaned out too.

As California enters another official drought again, what a future?

Has anyone got any insight into this Democrat position? It seems like group suicide to me!

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01...dams-and-reservoirs-in-california-hit-hurdle/
 
To be honest, i think the nationt would be a better place if that state dried up. I think we should allow elpres safe passage to a real state.
 
I heard this on the TV local news yesterday. It was a Democrat that said it, the interviewer said, As a Democrat why do you said this? I don't know who he was nor did I get to hear his explaination. The TV receptions went to hell for that part.

Oh well, it must be true. There have not been any dams built in decades and they all need cleaned out too.

As California enters another official drought again, what a future?

Has anyone got any insight into this Democrat position? It seems like group suicide to me!

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01...dams-and-reservoirs-in-california-hit-hurdle/

The way the LA area got it's water was seriously fucked up and illegal as hell. Heck. It inspired what I think is the best screenplay of all time.... Chinatown. And there have been other areas of California that have taken drastic measures to insure water despite various environmental concerns. I am not surprised that when facing massive climate changes.... they are well, fucked.
 
The way the LA area got it's water was seriously fucked up and illegal as hell. Heck. It inspired what I think is the best screenplay of all time.... Chinatown. And there have been other areas of California that have taken drastic measures to insure water despite various environmental concerns. I am not surprised that when facing massive climate changes.... they are well, fucked.
Climate change is Gods way of eliminating liberals? Praise the LORD! I just epmtied 2 cans of lysol in worship.
 
There have been some serious changes since the days when I previously lived in Southern California. Ventura County was always farm country, now it is mixture of Celebrity residential and farm country with the small cities supporting both.

The recent big fire, burned down Johnny Cash's home! But heck, he no longer needed it anyway. I guess Oprah was blocked out of her home for a while, due to mud slides caused by rain run off unimpeded. But the big bulk of the population is farm workers and domestic workers.
Might not be enough water to keep the Oxnard plains productive this coming year.

Man that is a lot of people working those crops, Strawberrys, Oranges, veggies! Oxnard is about 170 thousand people, almost 70 percent Hispanic, and I hear, a very high percentage of illegals.

Years ago drag racing became very popular in So Cal, but often done out of harms way, in the dry but concreted in river beds. The Hispanic kids are doing it in the streets here in Oxnard. Some pretty cool machines too, reminds me of the 50s in that way. Well anyway, one of these drags, achieved the predictable result last weekend. One lost control and went through a yard, severely injuring a six year old girl. According to the local Oxnard news, he is in jail on 75K bail.
The next comment just grabbed me! He probably won't get deported though since he is in Ventura County!!!

Well that's that, just the way it is. Not sure how we got here but here we are.

Where are we going?

How can you be for unlimited uncontrolled immigration, but at the same time against the development of infrastructure to support the population growth.
The return of the drought to the Oxnard plains will threaten thousand of jobs these people depend on. Do they really know what sort of leadership the Democrats bring??? Does creating sanctuaries really mean better leadership that creating dams to hold rain run off to grow food?

How can a Democrat win with this sort of nonsense?
 
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I was walking down the street and heard someone passing say "...and I won't stand for it, I just won't. If he wants..."

This is outrageous! Obviously the rest of their conversation was exactly how I imagined it, so somebody needs to do something!

barfo
 
To be honest, i think the nationt would be a better place if that state dried up. I think we should allow elpres safe passage to a real state.

As a SoCal resident I obviously disagree, but honestly, this state is responsible for a huge amount of the agriculture and produce that this country uses. 2/3 of the fruit and nuts that the US consumes comes from California. This requires water, acreage and sun. California can supply the acreage and sun. It only seems reasonable that the rest of the country will be willing to provide water for all this produce that it consumes. It's not like California is some kind of a financial drag on the country either, it is the largest tax payer in the country by more than a 100 billion per year over the 2nd largest tax state (Texas) and for every federal tax dollar paid by a California resident - less than a dollar comes back (something you can not say for Oregon which receives more federal support than the taxes it provides) - so, spare me the "California is bad" nonsense because it is a liberal state.

We pay for what we receive - well more than many others. I assure you that if California received as much as it gives - it's residents will come out ahead, not the other way around.
 
this state is responsible for a huge amount of the agriculture and produce that this country uses. 2/3 of the fruit and nuts

Driving down through the central valley last month, I saw a great number of those large patches of trees, nuts I suspect, were dead. It seems they quit watering them??
 
Driving down through the central valley last month, I saw a great number of those large patches of trees, nuts I suspect, were dead. It seems they quit watering them??

I have no idea specifically, but I believe there are many cases where they stop watering some stuff when it does not make sense. We live in Avocado country - Avocados as you know require tons of water - the orchard next to our neighborhood certainly stopped watering a section and allowed some trees to dies - In their case, I believe it is done based on the age of the trees, after some time - trees stop giving enough fruit and it just makes sense to stop watering them and replacing them later with younger ones.

FWIW - We have a couple of old Avocado trees in our yard - and at this point they give very few Avocados per year. Maybe at some point I will replace them. On the other hand, we have way too many lemons than what we expected. Our lemon trees are constantly bearing fruit and so much of it - it is absurd (we actually removed one of them and gave it to a friend - because we have too many).
 
We have a couple of old Avocado trees in our yard

My freind in Ojai has an Avocado tree in his yard. He quit watering it and his whole yard a number of years back.
It seems the population of California has just overwhelmed the ability of the infrastructure to support the people and farming.

Oh By the way, I did note that huge patches of trees left to die were but half grown. Small and dead. Hard to imagine the owner did this as a prudent course of action.
 
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As a SoCal resident I obviously disagree, but honestly, this state is responsible for a huge amount of the agriculture and produce that this country uses. 2/3 of the fruit and nuts that the US consumes comes from California. This requires water, acreage and sun. California can supply the acreage and sun. It only seems reasonable that the rest of the country will be willing to provide water for all this produce that it consumes. It's not like California is some kind of a financial drag on the country either, it is the largest tax payer in the country by more than a 100 billion per year over the 2nd largest tax state (Texas) and for every federal tax dollar paid by a California resident - less than a dollar comes back (something you can not say for Oregon which receives more federal support than the taxes it provides) - so, spare me the "California is bad" nonsense because it is a liberal state.

We pay for what we receive - well more than many others. I assure you that if California received as much as it gives - it's residents will come out ahead, not the other way around.

Well said!

Droughts are nothing new to California. There were much longer and severe ones here for a millennia. California's produce industry was built upon smartly planned distribution of water. Even in periods of drought in the 1800s and 1900s.

What's changed? How the water is managed and continued planning. The vitality of California's industries has taken a back seat to other concerns. I'm not sure this governing philosophy is sustainable.

Sure, California currently is rich by many measures. But how rich will we be if we run the movie and TV business out of LA? It's already in progress. How rich will we be if the central valleys' farms and orchards are denied water so they turn to desert?
 
Oh By the way, I did note that huge patches of trees left to die were but half grown. Small and dead. Hard to imagine the owner did as a prudent course of action.

I would not be surprised if this was just another business that ran into problems - it happens everywhere including ranching. I honestly do not know if there are any planned water issues that required it - I can ask my wife, while she is mostly in the energy industry - she sits on a board of a group that also deals with water issues, she might know.

I almost became an Avocado gentleman rancher - there was a property and house we loved that had 3 acres of an Avocado orchard - and the orchard was basically leased to a company that did all the farming and collection. Really wanted that place, unfortunately, no way to get fast enough internet there for my work - and we had to pass on it - but it was really cool.
 
How rich will we be if the central valleys' farms and orchards are denied water so they turn to desert?

I heard they finally had some kind of a plan for the Salton sea and Imperial county - not sure about the central valley.

FWIW - Anyone that is interested in the water issues should really go and visit the Salton sea, it is a fascinating area.
 
When I finally arrived at the boat last month, the Santa Barbara Channel was brown with mud run off. Over in the central valley, west of Bakersfield, I had to get off I-5 because it was raining too hard to drive. Just sat it out in a motel until the next day. That is when the mud side wiped out Montecito where Oprah lives.

The river beds normally dang near dry were all full, water rushing to the sea. Dang! Only one reservoir in sight, all the way from Bakersfield to Oxnard.
I know of another up by Ojai.
 
Driving down through the central valley last month, I saw a great number of those large patches of trees, nuts I suspect, were dead. It seems they quit watering them??
We sell to many of the farmers in the Central Valley. A lot of those down there are almonds. They've been doing a bunch of water reduction (almonds are like avocados sound, water hogs) measure, but honestly the bee profileration (specifically, the lack of bees) is really hurting the almond folks, b/c they almost literally can't be hand-pollinated. You need bees to have almonds.
 
I heard they finally had some kind of a plan for the Salton sea and Imperial county - not sure about the central valley.

FWIW - Anyone that is interested in the water issues should really go and visit the Salton sea, it is a fascinating area.

I live really close to the Salton Sea. We were inundated with a gazillion of these harmless Boatmen bugs from the Salton Sea last summer.

As far as the water goes... Of all people, Devin Nunes is one of the leaders in promoting means of more access to water.
 
I live really close to the Salton Sea. We were inundated with a gazillion of these harmless Boatmen bugs from the Salton Sea last summer.

As far as the water goes... Of all people, Devin Nunes is one of the leaders in promoting means of more access to water.

The last time I drove by the Salton Sea, several years ago now, it was painful! What a stink! There were dead fish everywhere washed up ashore.
I mean it was really foul!. Not enough water I was told, too salty and no oxygen. So how is this good water story?
 
The last time I drove by the Salton Sea, several years ago now, it was painful! What a stink! There were dead fish everywhere washed up ashore.
I mean it was really foul!. Not enough water I was told, too salty and no oxygen. So how is this good water story?

It is not a good water story, it is an interesting one and shows what can happen with short-term thinking and band-aid engineering. The sea was created because of the water canals that were designed in the past were poorly engineered and could not handle a flooding in the Colorado river in 1905 - the basin was flooded and it has been a lake ever since. It is mostly fed by irrigation run-offs from the agriculture in Impreial county - which means that the sea has chemical deposits that continue to build up. The problem is that over 100 years of deposits will be exposed as the lake continues to evaporate - which makes it an ecological and health disaster.

It is really an interesting area, and frankly, makes for fascinating doomsday like scenery. There are scenes that look as if they came directly from a Mad Max movie there.
 
It is really an interesting area, and frankly, makes for fascinating doomsday like scenery

Ah! Is this old fuck up what Democrats fear today? Don't want any repeats of screw ups! Better to do nothing!
 
Ah! Is this old fuck up what Democrats fear today? Don't want any repeats of screw ups! Better to do nothing!

I am actually not following the Democrats vs. Republicans debate here (frankly, I am just tired of it) - I am just fascinated by the area and the story and how it got to where it got. My personal interest is really looking at it as a system design and maintenance issue - I have to make many design and implementation decisions on an on-going basis - and it is always something that nags at me - when it makes sense to just get something out there that works - and when we actually need to rethink an issue and accept a short-term hit in order to design and implement something that will not lead us down a hole we can not easily extract ourselves out of.
 
I am actually not following the Democrats vs. Republicans debate here

Well I am not following this either. I do not know why it is a Democrat vs Republican thing! That is why I started the damn thread after
hearing the silly or it seems to me a silly position by a Democrat. Democrats don't build Dams.
What the hell! And there are so needed to store the infrequent rains. Perhaps even prevent some disasters.
 
Does California really need more dams? We're running out of places to put them

You hear this every time there's a drought or deluge in California: "Why haven't they built more dams?" Truth is, they've built a bunch. And they're about done with it.

Tally them up. There are more than 1,400 dams in the state. At least 1,000 are major and 55 can hold 100,000 acre-feet or more of water.

One acre-foot is enough to supply two average households for a year.

There are 36 reservoirs that can contain at least 200,000 acre-feet. Eleven can hold 1 million or more.

The biggest is Shasta on the Sacramento River at 4.5 million acre-feet. Then comes Oroville with its broken spillways on the Feather River at 3.5 million.

The largest reservoir in Southern California is Diamond Valley in Riverside County at 810,000 acre feet. For perspective, Castaic Lake off Interstate 5 heading over the Grapevine is about 324,000 acre-feet.

So there's already a heap of storage capacity in California — or what's called "surface storage" in water talk, in contrast to underground aquifers. The largest 200 reservoirs alone have a combined capacity of 41 million acre-feet.

There's at least one dam on every river running off the west slope of the Sierra except for the Cosumnes, just south of Sacramento, says Jeffrey Mount, a water expert at the Public Policy Institute of California. "And that doesn't have enough water in it to make a dam worthwhile," he adds.

Thankfully. The Cosumnes frequently spills over its banks, flooding roads and barns. But just before it enters the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta, the natural-flowing Cosumnes forms a popular nature preserve that annually hosts thousands of migratory waterfowl, including giant sandhill cranes.

California has lost 95% of its wetlands since 1900. So pardon if talk of "balancing" what's left isn't really appealing.

Anyway, dams don't make it rain and end droughts. And lack of rain was our principal drought problem, regardless of corporate agriculture's squawking about governments and judges coddling salmon.

"You can build more dams, but there isn't more water flowing into California," says Jay Lund, a water expert and professor of civil and environmental engineering at UC Davis.

"This year, there's more water than reservoirs. But if you can only fill them every 10 years, they make less sense economically."

There aren't many sensible dam sites left in California.

"We've already built the cheap dams," Lund says. "The remaining sites mostly are pretty expensive and are not going to give you that much water. Economically, you're not going to find a lot of people volunteering to pay for those dams. They'd be happy if someone else paid for one."

For environmental and cost reasons, Gov. Ronald Reagan killed dam proposals on the Eel River and the Middle Fork of the Feather nearly 50 years ago. An earthquake scare later scuttled a proposed dam on the American River above Folsom Lake.

There are earthquake faults all over California that unnerve dam builders. "There's nothing simple about water in California," Lund notes.

The best bet for the next major dam in California is called Sites, named after an old settlement in the low foothills of the Coast Range 14 miles west of the Sacramento River near Colusa.

This would be an "off-stream" reservoir that didn't dam a river, so there's much less opposition from environmentalists. Water would be piped into the reservoir from the Sacramento when it was running high.


It would have a capacity of 1.8 million acre-feet and be the seventh-largest reservoir in California. It's estimated that 500,000 acre-feet could be delivered a year, split between agriculture, domestic and environmental use. But there'd be only minor flood-control value, experts say.

The cost? About $5 billion. Proponents are preparing to seek money from the $7.5-billion water bond issue that voters approved in 2014. Of that, $2.7 billion was set aside for water storage.

Under the measure, up to half a project's cost could be paid for by the bond money. The rest would need to be footed by the water users on their monthly bills.

But before water districts in the San Joaquin Valley and Southern California commit to pitching in, they'd need assurance the water could be moved through the troubled delta. And that's anything but certain.

Delta farmers and environmentalists are fighting Gov. Jerry Brown’s $15.5-billion plan to dig two monstrous tunnels to siphon off fresh Sacramento River water before it ever reaches the estuary. And Brown hasn’t shown any interest in trying to fix the fish-chomping water transfer system that exists.

One other major dam is being promoted, but its economics are less promising and its environmental impact more controversial. It's Temperance Flat near Fresno on the San Joaquin River above Friant Dam. Its backers also are eyeing a piece of the 2014 bond issue.

"The default reaction when we're faced with a water emergency is the 20th century notion that large investments in concrete will somehow solve our problem," Mount says.

"But if you've already tapped out that, the alternative is to look more closely at whether we can do a better job with what we have. And to date we haven't done that."

Operate the dams more efficiently. Recharge the aquifers. Expedite groundwater regulation. Capture storm runoff. Recycle. Desalinate.

Build Sites. Compromise and fix the delta.

One thing is not the answer: continuing to plant thirsty nut orchards in the arid San Joaquin Valley.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-skelton-california-water-capture-dams-20170220-story.html
 
For those who are proponents of the downfall of California, be careful what you wish for. If it was a nation, it would have like the 7th or 8th biggest economy in the world.
 
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ornia-drought-lesson-dams-20170317-story.html

California drought’s biggest lesson? Build more water storage

The winter’s welcome wet spell has brought at least an unofficial end to California’s drought. But has the rain washed away the most obvious lesson of the Golden State’s dry weather? Quite possibly.

The Democrats who control state government say the right things about continuing to push water conservation and to move away from unmetered water systems. But when it comes to perhaps the drought’s most obvious lesson — the need to sharply increase water storage capacity — their silence is deafening. With large new dams and reservoirs, California could easily collect vastly more water every year.
 

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