Zombie Derrick Jones to Portland

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Natebishop3 said:
Which is funny compared to RoCo.
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Yeah, RoCo is super open. Obviously, at the end of the day, play on the court is the most important thing. ET was one of the most hilarious dudes ever, but on the floor, he left a lot to be desired.

I just thought it was funny how dull DJJ was. Even my girlfriend, who doesn't watch or care about basketball at all came over and asked me if this guy was unhappy or depressed.
 
BonesJones said:
Huh? You design ways to outlet the ball out of the trap into a situation where you can attack the 4v3 advantage. The coach is literally supposed to design who to pass it to ahead of time.
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Correct... you're saying a coach can decide which one player is open for the first pass? I'm saying the defense also has a say in which players they're more comfortable leaving open. NBA teams aren't going to be able to run a set play to break a trap over and over, they're going to have to read and react.

For example. A team might decide Nurk would eat them alive at the block, but if he wants to catch it at 30ft, they'd be ok with that. They might be willing to keep a guy between DJJ and the basket, but won't worry about closing out on him because they are willing to live with a 28% shooter taking a shot over Dame & CJ.

I'm open to seeing your scheme that eliminates the defense having ability to pick where they can mitigate their risk.
 
He's been in Florida....he's just cold landing in Portland! He'll acclimate! Takes a few weeks.
 
BonesJones said:


Note: This was filmed before Olshey's presser. I'm a little more hopeful we might utilize him correctly now. For our thoughts on that presser and how it pertains to Derrick Jones Jr, we discussed it as our first topic during Blazers Uprise Live last night.

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Do you guys think Blazers should play a lot of zone defense next year since Jones has been so successful with that?
 
This guy is boring as hell to listen. Harry Giles is far better and excited about PDX.
 
B-Roy said:


This guy has the most flat personality I've ever seen. I thought Aminu was a bad interview but damn.....DJJ brings it to a whole nother level.
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I loved his interview, I thought it was just him being real and not trying to put on a show. He obviously loves the game, loves playing D, believes that his offense is improving, he seems like a team player who is about winning and I didn't sense a hint of entitlement, which is refreshing.
 
His interview after winning the dunk contest:
 
BonesJones said:
Huh? You design ways to outlet the ball out of the trap into a situation where you can attack the 4v3 advantage. The coach is literally supposed to design who to pass it to ahead of time.
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My theory is there are 4 outlet options an offense has when a player is being trapped and at least one should be open. The defense has the ability to take away up to 3 of those options as they choose. If you disagree and think an NBA offense breaks traps like a scripted elementry inbounds play, we are at an impasse.
 
Tince said:
My theory is there are 4 outlet options an offense has when a player is being trapped and at least one should be open. The defense has the ability to take away up to 3 of those options as they choose. If you disagree and think an NBA offense breaks traps like a scripted elementry inbounds play, we are at an impasse.
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Here's the problem:

They set a screen for Dame to dribble to the sideline corner at halfcourt, inviting the trap in one of the worst spots on the floor to be trapped. As far as outlets, one option is CJ at halfcourt across the court. One is Nurkic 30ft away from the rim in the middle of the floor with CJs man sagging onto him since CJ's at halfcourt. The forwards are stuck in the corner being denied as outlet options. Forces the ball into CJs hands at halfcourt and the defense rotates back. This happened so much in the first round last season. This is NOT the way to attack the trap, and should not be the answer by an NBA head coach. Personnel doesn't make a difference in beating the trap in this situation. There's no productive outlet options for Dame there, let alone 4.

I don't know what a "scripted elementary inbounds play" has to do with that specific setup. You set up all the outlets so that they're in a position to shoot, attack, score, or cut to the basket if their man leaves them. It's not about a "scripted play", it's about a specific floor setup that creates a 4-on-3 advantage from wherever the ball is outletted too. You don't run Dame into the corner at halfcourt against a trap either. You also can use Dame off the ball.
 
BonesJones said:
Here's the problem:

They set a screen for Dame to dribble to the sideline corner at halfcourt, inviting the trap in one of the worst spots on the floor to be trapped. As far as outlets, one option is CJ at halfcourt across the court. One is Nurkic 30ft away from the rim in the middle of the floor with CJs man sagging onto him since CJ's at halfcourt. The forwards are stuck in the corner being denied as outlet options. Forces the ball into CJs hands at halfcourt and the defense rotates back. This happened so much in the first round last season. This is NOT the way to attack the trap, and should not be the answer by an NBA head coach. Personnel doesn't make a difference in beating the trap in this situation. There's no productive outlet options for Dame there, let alone 4.

I don't know what a "scripted elementary inbounds play" has to do with that specific setup. You set up all the outlets so that they're in a position to shoot, attack, score, or cut to the basket if their man leaves them. It's not about a "scripted play", it's about a specific floor setup that creates a 4-on-3 advantage from wherever the ball is outletted too. You don't run Dame into the corner at halfcourt against a trap either. You also can use Dame off the ball.
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I think you are agreeing with me that the defense has some control over who is open and who is not, which is good. I don't agree that the offense is designed to dribble up the sideline corner, though I do think Dame's defender does attempt to shade him towards the sideline (pretty standard tatic).

I've seen Nurk as the outlet at or above the key many times, not just at the rim as you describe. Yes, there have been cases where the post was at the rim, I can't say if that's by design or the post failing to recognize the trap. Agreed on CJ's standard location. So we have Dame getting trapped with the options to throw a parallel pass to CJ, where he's too deep to shoot, but is the most visible option to Dame. Nurk is there for a diagonal pass at the top of the key where he has to turn and face and make a quick pass or attack (if he's open). There is another wing on the strong side that Dame could pass to if his defender is hedging toward Nurk. This is a pretty standard 2-1-2 you'll see against most half court traps. Do you have a non 2-1-2 setup that you think would be more optimal?
 
BonesJones said:
Here's the problem:

They set a screen for Dame to dribble to the sideline corner at halfcourt, inviting the trap in one of the worst spots on the floor to be trapped. As far as outlets, one option is CJ at halfcourt across the court. One is Nurkic 30ft away from the rim in the middle of the floor with CJs man sagging onto him since CJ's at halfcourt. The forwards are stuck in the corner being denied as outlet options. Forces the ball into CJs hands at halfcourt and the defense rotates back. This happened so much in the first round last season. This is NOT the way to attack the trap, and should not be the answer by an NBA head coach. Personnel doesn't make a difference in beating the trap in this situation. There's no productive outlet options for Dame there, let alone 4.

I don't know what a "scripted elementary inbounds play" has to do with that specific setup. You set up all the outlets so that they're in a position to shoot, attack, score, or cut to the basket if their man leaves them. It's not about a "scripted play", it's about a specific floor setup that creates a 4-on-3 advantage from wherever the ball is outletted too. You don't run Dame into the corner at halfcourt against a trap either. You also can use Dame off the ball.
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I could be reading this wrong or maybe need to go back and read all the posts but do you really think they set a screen so Damian goes to no mans land at half court so he’s stuck ?
 
Tince said:
I think you are agreeing with me that the defense has some control over who is open and who is not, which is good. I don't agree that the offense is designed to dribble up the sideline corner, though I do think Dame's defender does attempt to shade him towards the sideline (pretty standard tatic).

I've seen Nurk as the outlet at or above the key many times, not just at the rim as you describe. Yes, there have been cases where the post was at the rim, I can't say if that's by design or the post failing to recognize the trap. Agreed on CJ's standard location. So we have Dame getting trapped with the options to throw a parallel pass to CJ, where he's too deep to shoot, but is the most visible option to Dame. Nurk is there for a diagonal pass at the top of the key where he has to turn and face and make a quick pass or attack (if he's open). There is another wing on the strong side that Dame could pass to if his defender is hedging toward Nurk. This is a pretty standard 2-1-2 you'll see against most half court traps. Do you have a non 2-1-2 setup that you think would be more optimal?
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Nurk at the top of the key with a SG on him? He's supposed to drive on a SG from 30ft away? His only open outlet is CJ at halfcourt. There are many non 2-1-2 setups that are ideal. Running Dame into the trap in the halfcourt corner is not a good gameplan. We've seen that.
 
calvin natt said:
I could be reading this wrong or maybe need to go back and read all the posts but do you really think they set a screen so Damian goes to no mans land at half court so he’s stuck ?
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YesScreenshot_20201125-060628_Twitter.jpg
 
But is that a screen to get him out of there or like you said, a screen to make him go there?
 
calvin natt said:
But is that a screen to get him out of there or like you said, a screen to make him go there?
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You are correct.

The picture above is just a PnR screen, this isn't even a picture of a time the Lakers were halfcourt trapping (which is what we were originally talking about). The screen is being set in a place where if needed, Dame has multiple relief dribbles avialable to him, not right at the half-court corner as described. Nurk is almost certainly being coached to screen Caruso this direction based off the way he is defending Dame. A good screen here should wipe Caruso out of the play for 1-2 steps, allowing Dame to attack Howard 25-30ft from the hoop, which is not playing to Howard's strengths.

To me, this screen shot is not a reaction to a half court trap, and therefore has nothing to do with what we were discussing. This could be used in a discussion about where to set on ball screens. Obviously two very different scenarios.
 
Can someone explain why we would screen at all when we know they're going to trap him? Why bring the second man to Dame?
 
Tince said:
You are correct.

The picture above is just a PnR screen, this isn't even a picture of a time the Lakers were halfcourt trapping (which is what we were originally talking about). The screen is being set in a place where if needed, Dame has multiple relief dribbles avialable to him, not right at the half-court corner as described. Nurk is almost certainly being coached to screen Caruso this direction based off the way he is defending Dame. A good screen here should wipe Caruso out of the play for 1-2 steps, allowing Dame to attack Howard 25-30ft from the hoop, which is not playing to Howard's strengths.

To me, this screen shot is not a reaction to a half court trap, and therefore has nothing to do with what we were discussing. This could be used in a discussion about where to set on ball screens. Obviously two very different scenarios.
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Yeah. Confused for a second there.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Can someone explain why we would screen at all when we know they're going to trap him? Why bring the second man to Dame?
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This is a great question. Here are some reasons why you might set a screen even with the assumption that they might attempt to double it.

1) You think you have the ability to get the ball out of the trap with a high success rate and will setup a 4 on 3 advantage on the back end.

2) You think your ball handler can attack and split the double, creating a possible 5 on 3 advantage.

3) You are trying to wear down the defending big by constantly putting them in actions that require them to chase around a PG. (highly unlikely this would be the only reason).
 
BonesJones said:
Here's the problem:

They set a screen for Dame to dribble to the sideline corner at halfcourt, inviting the trap in one of the worst spots on the floor to be trapped. As far as outlets, one option is CJ at halfcourt across the court. One is Nurkic 30ft away from the rim in the middle of the floor with CJs man sagging onto him since CJ's at halfcourt. The forwards are stuck in the corner being denied as outlet options. Forces the ball into CJs hands at halfcourt and the defense rotates back. This happened so much in the first round last season. This is NOT the way to attack the trap, and should not be the answer by an NBA head coach. Personnel doesn't make a difference in beating the trap in this situation. There's no productive outlet options for Dame there, let alone 4.

I don't know what a "scripted elementary inbounds play" has to do with that specific setup. You set up all the outlets so that they're in a position to shoot, attack, score, or cut to the basket if their man leaves them. It's not about a "scripted play", it's about a specific floor setup that creates a 4-on-3 advantage from wherever the ball is outletted too. You don't run Dame into the corner at halfcourt against a trap either. You also can use Dame off the ball.
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I agree Jones on what the Blazers trying to beat the trap. When they break trap then they decided set it up in the half court so they really didn't accomplish anything. But if they attack the defense after they the break the trap and be successful at it then teams will leary to trap us as much. Plus Dame as get rid of the ball faster before the trap comes and yes he has problem where he get trap too. I seen video where a team try to trap miami and they use Jones as the middle guy or the outline and turn around and attack with a dunk.
 
Tince said:
This is a great question. Here are some reasons why you might set a screen even with the assumption that they might attempt to double it.

1) You think you have the ability to get the ball out of the trap with a high success rate and will setup a 4 on 3 advantage on the back end.

2) You think your ball handler can attack and split the double, creating a possible 5 on 3 advantage.

3) You are trying to wear down the defending big by constantly putting them in actions that require them to chase around a PG. (highly unlikely this would be the only reason).
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Pretty big cardinal sin trying to break a trap with the dribble.
 
James lamphear said:
Pretty big cardinal sin trying to break a trap with the dribble.
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I think that's more of a high school level cardinal sin, like failing to come to a jump stop before making a pass or passing while you're in the air. Dame has had success doing it.

 
Tince said:
I think that's more of a high school level cardinal sin, like failing to come to a jump stop before making a pass or passing while you're in the air. Dame has had success doing it.

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He also made turnover too in crucial part of the game. Trying dribble between two guys only bad things can happen.
 
James lamphear said:
He also made turnover too in crucial part of the game. Trying dribble between two guys only bad things can happen.
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I see what your saying there the trap was late so he had time to slice between. I am talking about getting trap at half court.
 
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