dviss1
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They don't give a shit Maris. We can only hope they aren't raising boy children.
OT Derrick Rose accused of rape
- Thread starter EL PRESIDENTE
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They don't give a shit Maris. We can only hope they aren't raising boy children.
Sedatedfork
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I don't know why everyone is so quick to jump to a conclusion here. Do parts of the story not seem logical? I suppose, but I've never taken a date rape drug or been raped, so I can't really comment on whether it's logical or not. The quick conclusions being made here can only dissuade victims from coming forward, even if Jane Doe is a lying gold-digger. The responsible thing to do is to reserve judgment. I thought I would post this little tidbit, which I think illustrates how many rape victims feel.
If Robbery Victims Were Treated Like Rape Victims: “The Legal Bias Against Rape Victims (The Rape of Mr. Smith)”
The full article, by Connie K. Borkenhagen, appeared in the American Bar Association Journal in April, 1975.
In the following situation, a holdup victim is asked questions by a lawyer.
Lawyer: “Mr. Smith, you were held up at gunpoint on the corner of First and Main?”
Mr. Smith: “Yes”
Lawyer: “Did you struggle with the robber?”
Mr. Smith: “No.”
Lawyer: “Why not?”
Mr. Smith: “He was armed.”
Lawyer: “Then you made a conscious decision to comply with his demands rather than resist?”
Mr. Smith: “Yes.”
Lawyer: “Did you scream? Cry out?”
Mr. Smith: “No, I was afraid.”
Lawyer: “I see. Have you ever been held up before?”
Mr. Smith: “No.”
Lawyer: “Have you ever GIVEN money away?”
Mr. Smith: “Yes, of course.”
Lawyer: “And you did so willingly?”
Mr. Smith: “What are you getting at?”
Lawyer: “Well, let’s put it like this, Mr. Smith. You’ve given money away in the past. In fact, you have quite a reputation for philanthropy. How can we be sure that you weren’t CONTRIVING to have your money taken from you by force?”
Mr. Smith: “Listen, if I wanted –“
Lawyer: “Never mind. What time did this holdup take place, Mr. Smith?”
Mr. Smith: “About 11:00 P.M..”
Lawyer: “You were out on the street at 11:00 P.M.? Doing what?”
Mr. Smith: “Just walking.”
Lawyer: “Just walking? You know that it’s dangerous being out on the street that late at night. Weren’t you aware that you could have been held up?”
Mr. Smith: “I hadn’t thought about it.”
Lawyer: “What were you wearing at the time, Mr. Smith?”
Mr. Smith: “Let’s see … a suit. Yes, a suit.”
Lawyer: “An EXPENSIVE suit?”
Mr. Smith: “Well – yes. I’m a successful lawyer, you know.”
Lawyer: “In other words, Mr. Smith, you were walking around the streets late at night in a suit that practically advertised the fact that you might be good target for some easy money, isn’t that so? I mean, if we didn’t know better, Mr. Smith, we might even think that you were ASKING for this to happen, mightn’t we?”
If Robbery Victims Were Treated Like Rape Victims: “The Legal Bias Against Rape Victims (The Rape of Mr. Smith)”
The full article, by Connie K. Borkenhagen, appeared in the American Bar Association Journal in April, 1975.
In the following situation, a holdup victim is asked questions by a lawyer.
Lawyer: “Mr. Smith, you were held up at gunpoint on the corner of First and Main?”
Mr. Smith: “Yes”
Lawyer: “Did you struggle with the robber?”
Mr. Smith: “No.”
Lawyer: “Why not?”
Mr. Smith: “He was armed.”
Lawyer: “Then you made a conscious decision to comply with his demands rather than resist?”
Mr. Smith: “Yes.”
Lawyer: “Did you scream? Cry out?”
Mr. Smith: “No, I was afraid.”
Lawyer: “I see. Have you ever been held up before?”
Mr. Smith: “No.”
Lawyer: “Have you ever GIVEN money away?”
Mr. Smith: “Yes, of course.”
Lawyer: “And you did so willingly?”
Mr. Smith: “What are you getting at?”
Lawyer: “Well, let’s put it like this, Mr. Smith. You’ve given money away in the past. In fact, you have quite a reputation for philanthropy. How can we be sure that you weren’t CONTRIVING to have your money taken from you by force?”
Mr. Smith: “Listen, if I wanted –“
Lawyer: “Never mind. What time did this holdup take place, Mr. Smith?”
Mr. Smith: “About 11:00 P.M..”
Lawyer: “You were out on the street at 11:00 P.M.? Doing what?”
Mr. Smith: “Just walking.”
Lawyer: “Just walking? You know that it’s dangerous being out on the street that late at night. Weren’t you aware that you could have been held up?”
Mr. Smith: “I hadn’t thought about it.”
Lawyer: “What were you wearing at the time, Mr. Smith?”
Mr. Smith: “Let’s see … a suit. Yes, a suit.”
Lawyer: “An EXPENSIVE suit?”
Mr. Smith: “Well – yes. I’m a successful lawyer, you know.”
Lawyer: “In other words, Mr. Smith, you were walking around the streets late at night in a suit that practically advertised the fact that you might be good target for some easy money, isn’t that so? I mean, if we didn’t know better, Mr. Smith, we might even think that you were ASKING for this to happen, mightn’t we?”
BonesJones
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I don't these stats are credible. How does one count the "68% of sexual assaults are not reported" if they aren't reported?
Also, when it says 98% of rapists don't go to jail, it should be saying "accused of rape", but it presumes the man as automatically guilty. They also derive the 98% from the 68% they magically came up with.
EL PRESIDENTE
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You have to remember what they are taking into account is someone making a claim and accepting it as fact that a crime or incident indeed did take place.
"I was raped" = A rape occurred = A rapist exist = That rapist should have gone to jail but did not.
If I claim right now that Greg Oden raped me, then by this organization's way of thinking, Greg Oden should be in jail for rape.
BonesJones
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Also, if a man and a women both get drunk and are too impaired to legally "consent" to sex, the woman can turn around and say she never wanted to have sex with him and was drunk, therefore he raped her...
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Couldn't the man, in theory, claim the same?
Further
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This thread, the responses in it, really depress me. I hope that you guys that are arguing that rape isn't really prevalent and all that jazz are doing it to mess with dviss and some of the other liberals around here, because the alternative is disgusting.
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In theory, yes. In reality, no. The claim would be laughed off because of having a penis and the good old fashioned "*eye roll* can't rape the willing".
IMHO the word rape and racism are being perverted into different definitions.
EL PRESIDENTE
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Its not that rape isn't prevalent, but there is no "rape culture" and a lot of "rape accusations" are false. Remorse isn't rape bro.
The D-Rose case is different though, shit just sounds made up and shady.
Further
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As I said earlier about the Rose case, I haven't got a clue. All the points I can see being true or false, so until there is more info I'll just let those involved with the facts sort it out.
As far as the rest of the stuff that you were saying, some close to me have been raped and it certainly wasn't just remorse. I don't know what the stats are on the false accusations, and I would hope those false-accusers would be prosecuted. But I think you are over dramatizing the fake accounts and not giving adequate or just regard for the very frequent and very real rapes that occur.
1 in 5 women in their lifetime seems plausible to me. But what if you are correct and the number is less, 1 in 8 or 1 in 10. Hell, what if that number is off by an order of magnitude and the real number is 1 in 50. That's still a shit load of rape. At 1 in 50 that would still be 3 million women in the USA having to deal with being raped at least once. Even if there isn't some tee-shirt wearing rape culture that we can point to (in some corners there is), with somewhere between 3 million and 30 million women having been raped in America there is at least a culture of women who have to deal with the very real effects of having been raped. So if you persist to trivialize the devastating nature of rape in America then at absolute best, you are continuing to make these women feel mocked, ashamed and untrustworthy.
VanillaGorilla
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But willingness is negated by impairment, for either gender. Logically and legally, if a drunk female is considered incapable of giving consent, so is a drunk male.
These days, the prejudice against male rape victims has faded significantly, and any attorney who attempted to make the argument that a drunk man can't be raped would be taking his career in his hands.
EL PRESIDENTE
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Look, if you don't point out the times where shit ends up being fake then this hysteria will continue. You can't take this shit lightly from both sides. Guys will have their lives destroyed by false rape accusation. Sure, rape does suck and its evil but where we are at, accusing someone of rape is equal to rape. Even if you're acquitted or no charges pressed, you're still labeled as a rapist in many circles. You can't trivialize the other side of the coin, people are casually making claims of rape and doing it publicly to get attention.
Look at the Duke LaCrosse, I was saying the SAME shit and people were coming back with "oh, how do you know", yeah, it just sounded shady and fucked. And there were SYSTEMATIC coverups at every level. Same shit happen with the fake Rolling Stone article and the Matress Girl. University condoned the shaming of the accused and he got his life ruined.
Further
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In this post you explained your view well, described a problem you feel needs attention and you did it without talking callously about women. It's a much more effective way to express your opinion and actually be heard.
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We've all seen that guy, hell some of you might even be that guy, who at a party, or the club, or at the frat, their only plan for getting laid is to get a chick so god damn drunk that she either blacks out or passes out. Just get her so fucked up that she can't say no. And according to you that's fine! She wasn't raped, she just regrets getting so drunk. It's just remorse, bro!
We've all seen the guy at the bar who comes up behind a chick ordering a drink and "accidentally" grinds into her from behind. But as long as she is remorseful and regrets dressing attractively or ordering a drink that's not sexual assault. "She was asking for it." "She was dressed like a slut." "If she didn't want to get felt up she should have stayed home."
You can deny all you want but there are far more guys willing to do anything for easy sex then there are women willing to lie about rape.
riverman
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Are these excerpts from Diary of a Sly Poker Dog or have you just been chain reading 50 Shades of Grey?
VanillaGorilla
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I've been to a decent amount of parties/clubs/frats for a 23 year old and I've never seen that. What I see is men and women getting drunk as fuck. I've never seen a sober guy "getting" a girl black out drunk. Do you think if a man and a woman both get blackout drunk and end up having sex, it's on the man? Cause that's really what it seems like you're saying. Why aren't women responsible for how drunk they get the same way men are?
VanillaGorilla
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How could you possibly know this? You're pulling that out of your ass.
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My statement was in response to this, "and a lot of "rape accusations" are false." I would say he's pulling that out of his ass. Some rape accusations are false but not a lot of the total rape accusations. I would say he's making that up.
But back to my statement, so you're telling me you believe more women lie about being raped than are actually raped?!? Really? Show me a statistic that even comes close to that.
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When I was in school, we had kegs of beer for the guys and kool-aid and everclear for the gals.
BlayZa
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ok things we know for sure so far:
1. they were in a relationship for a number of years
2. this allegedly happened 2yrs ago
3. she is suing him for $, not pressing charges.
4. she brought up that he asked her to masty in front of him. (this part is super odd to me, not the action but why mention it - if you're in a relationship and think that's unusual then... *shrug*)
5. story broke on new rose shoe day release - PR quinkydink?
6. the alleged crime is a train run on her by her bf and his friends after getting roofied, but she escaped, so they broke into her apartment to rape her anyway.
7. drose is loaded
i dunno, the things i take out of what we know so far is , relationship over - money not justice - drose loaded. - im really not seeing a whole lot of reason to get on the 'he raped her' bus yet.
still, its interesting to read some peoples responses so far, no doubt its a controversial subject etc, but this will be judged on not what you say, but what you can prove, or she will just get paid to stfu.
what does everyone feel the likely outcome is? settlement? and is that 'justice' for all you white knights out there?
1. they were in a relationship for a number of years
2. this allegedly happened 2yrs ago
3. she is suing him for $, not pressing charges.
4. she brought up that he asked her to masty in front of him. (this part is super odd to me, not the action but why mention it - if you're in a relationship and think that's unusual then... *shrug*)
5. story broke on new rose shoe day release - PR quinkydink?
6. the alleged crime is a train run on her by her bf and his friends after getting roofied, but she escaped, so they broke into her apartment to rape her anyway.
7. drose is loaded
i dunno, the things i take out of what we know so far is , relationship over - money not justice - drose loaded. - im really not seeing a whole lot of reason to get on the 'he raped her' bus yet.
still, its interesting to read some peoples responses so far, no doubt its a controversial subject etc, but this will be judged on not what you say, but what you can prove, or she will just get paid to stfu.
what does everyone feel the likely outcome is? settlement? and is that 'justice' for all you white knights out there?
BlayZa
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updated article - just gets weirder
http://deadspin.com/here-are-the-details-from-the-derrick-rose-rape-lawsuit-1726964421
http://deadspin.com/here-are-the-details-from-the-derrick-rose-rape-lawsuit-1726964421
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BlayZa
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so he asked her to masturbate on skype - she refused and stopped skyping.
she learned he had a gf win chitown - but stayed with him anyways.
she went to see him with a 'friend' who somehow ended up giving him a handjob and when he suggested they get it on as a group she was disgusted and so was the 'friend'.
also
Rose and the woman dated from 2011 until July 2013. In May 2013, according to the lawsuit, the woman said she traveled to Chicago with Rose and that they went to dinner with a friend “at his house after the game he played in ended.”
Rose, however, missed the entire the 2012-13 season with an injury and, consequently, did not play in May.
she learned he had a gf win chitown - but stayed with him anyways.
she went to see him with a 'friend' who somehow ended up giving him a handjob and when he suggested they get it on as a group she was disgusted and so was the 'friend'.
also
Rose and the woman dated from 2011 until July 2013. In May 2013, according to the lawsuit, the woman said she traveled to Chicago with Rose and that they went to dinner with a friend “at his house after the game he played in ended.”
Rose, however, missed the entire the 2012-13 season with an injury and, consequently, did not play in May.
EL PRESIDENTE
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This post is the result of out of touch crackaz learning about parties and bar life through Law and Order: SVU.
EL PRESIDENTE
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Pro-tip: the better plan of action is to befriend the girl's Friendzone'd Bro's protecting her. Get THEM blackout drunk so they disappear and suddenly the girl thinking they ditched them. Since you were "friends" with them and were cool with them, you're the good guy and she says the phrase "Don't leave me".
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EL PRESIDENTE
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http://louderwithcrowder.com/jake-josie-hook-drunk-josie-just-raped-jake/
Hell, she doesn't even need to be drunk, she could just change her mind after the fact!
Hell, she doesn't even need to be drunk, she could just change her mind after the fact!
Sedatedfork
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At least 3 women in my family were raped and I have known countless other women who have been sexually assaulted and work in social services for sexual assault survivors. None of them reported the assault. You can kind of understand why when you read this thread. They got no justice. No one paid for their years of therapy. But, I guess it just could have been an elaborate ruse to trick everyone because of their remorse. And I guess I am a white knight because I oppose rape.
BlayZa
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eh you aint a white knight for that kinda shit. i can't imagine anyone promoting rape - and would assume everyone here inherently opposes it also.
im also a huge fan of evidence and reporting shit like that when it happens.
im also a huge fan of evidence and reporting shit like that when it happens.
Sedatedfork
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Reporting is a personal choice. If you are a victim, you have the choice about whether to subject yourself to the SAFE kits which are pretty fucking invasive after you have just been raped and whether you really want to be subjected to an investigation, etc. Personally, I think it is pretty callous to look down on someone for choosing not to report. It is their decision. Afterall, they are the victim. Sure, reporting could prevent reoffenses, but in that moment you are in shock and you are justifiably concerned you won't be believed. You feel violated and the investigation feels like it would be violating you all over again. It is a he said, she said situation and you are worried you won't be believed. I will never look down on someone for choosing not to report. Now, I get it, Jane Doe waited 2 years to say anything and her story seems farfetched. Date rape drugs are incredibly tough to detect. I have heard that usually by the time the victim is conscious, the drug has left the person's system. Although the story doesn't seem to make sense, does that mean it didn't happen? Not being an expert on rape drugs or a toxicologist I can't really comment. If Mrs. Doe is a liar, she is doing more harm than to just D. Rose; she is causing those real victims to question whether they should report, and that is why I will never jump to conclusions about whether an SA accusation is true. Doing so is part of the problem in my opinion.
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